Sound Design

[the4thImpulse]

I like sound design, so here's my thoughts.

1. Buy, with your own money, the soft synth of you choice. That goes for all software as well but I will stay on topic with synths.

When you buy the software for something you truly enjoy, and I'm assuming you all enjoy music, then you will a greater desire to learn and use said software. You will far less often give up when something frustrates you because you know your money is invested in it already, you won't want to give up. Not giving up is a key to sound design, if you care for the music you make you will want to make better music and if you have never bought software you will never have this urge on the same level.


2. The manual!

Read them, that's why hey are there. If you have never read a manual for a synth before than you should know they will teach you just about everything you need to know about the synth. Before I use a synth I often read the manual to get a feel for the UI of the synth before touching it.


3. Inspiration.

If you don't want to sound like deadmau5 then don't listen to deadmau5 before and after you music sessions. I often listen to genres that are worlds apart from electronic music so I can develop my sound better, I recommend classical music. If you do want to sound like deadmau5 than, and this should be quite obvious, listen to deadmau5 all the time and possible the people that have inspired him along the way. When you are not in the creative mood then listen to what you want but understand what it may do to you, a large variety of music is best.

4. Presets.

Stay far far away. Delete them if necessary (I have for most of my software), they are what will stop you from ever fully understanding a synth and finding your sound.




Kyoga, I feel like the idea of you offering your own presets to the people would be contradicting the idea of this thread, to help discover your own sound. I also think this thread should not be about 'how do I make ____ sound', they can make their own thread for that and leave this for encouragement.

[the4thImpulse]

Well I understand the slightly hypocritical nature of offering presets in a place that is meant to not have presets, but the hopes with releasing something like this is that the people who download it will take the time to "reverse engineer" the patch to understand what components give it their particular sound.

Using the patches as an "example" of what particular sound synthesis works and WHY it works.
Not just "twist this knob to get this sound" but more in the line of "when these things are combined this way, it makes a sound like this. Play around with it to learn more about what makes it tick so you can use that knowledge in the future"

I'm also going to be offering patches because way too many people have asked me for a pack (between here and youtube) so I feel that this is kind of a way of looking at something so you can analyze the concepts behind it.

I'm sorry I have to write this here but I feel as though its important.
I don't feel as though you are understanding the point.

The first sentence you wrote in this thread "I'm hoping that this thread can act as a slight hub for those who are struggling to break free of the incredibly limiting world of using modified or factory-made presets" is something I whole hearty agree with, but when you are offering your homemade presets in the same thread is a HUGE mistake. If people want your presets its your choice to give them away (and I can tell you want to give them away) but this is not the right place to do it in.

I would recommend making a 'MLR member preset pack' thread in the sharing section, that way you have a place to showcase your presets and other members can make packs of their own if they so wish.



Back on topic:

Again, presets will only dampen your creativity potential, if you want to understand synthesis then don't look towards presets.

[KillerAmp]

I feel that after i got a good understanding of how subjective synthesis worked (like Massive) Looking at presets (not the built in ones, they're garbage imo) and how other people made a certain sound, i learned more about the wave-tables and how to get different effects using certain filter/modulation controls. but i really want to put a large amount of emphesis on the first part of my post. The time i felt i was good enough with massive to look into presets, was when i was able to mentally pick out how to make a certain sound i heard/thought about.

I agree with 4thimpulse, you should really buy a synth if you want to learn it, torrenting ableton and massive doesnt make you want to really get into it and learn the programs inside out (also it doesnt instantly make you good. Its not the hardware/software that make you good, its the understanding and creativity that make you good). it just makes you want to go and say "Hey this is too hard, im just going to pirate nexus and use all its synth presets" or you even go and pay money for massive presets.
WHATS THE POINT OF PAYING MONEY FOR SOMETHING YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO LEARN FOR YOURSELF?

Main point: Learn ur soft synth if you're new to it, and it takes time, its not like as soon as you read the manual you fully understand your synth. that just means you know what it CAN do. and the way i use presets are to practice recreating them. But try and stay away from them in production.

[XXDarkShadow79XX]

I don't think I've ever used a massive preset in one of my final songs. And I still don't have my own sound. :P

[ChromaticChaosPony]

Massive has a feature that chooses a bunch of waveforms and other settings at random. It's under the "Global" tab (it's called "Randomize"). If you are bored and need inspiration, use it. Because you get something different every time, you may discover waveforms and effect combinations that you had never considered using previously. It usually sounds terrible without major tweaking, but is the single best way to inspire innovative sound design in Massive.

[ChromaticChaosPony]

Tip for those who want to make some truly innovative sound design:

Try synthesizing noise or sound effects instead of something musical once in a while.

Examples: try to synthesize that cool sound effect you heard in a horror/action movie. Or maybe that metallic clang you heard when you drove past some construction workers. Or perhaps just try to recreate the sound of the universe imploding upon itself.

Or maybe try taking an existing sound and adding creative effects to it instead of synthesizing it.

Be creative.

[XXDarkShadow79XX]

Tip for those who want to make some truly innovative sound design:

Try synthesizing noise or sound effects instead of something musical once in a while.

Examples: try to synthesize that cool sound effect you heard in a horror/action movie. Or maybe that metallic clang you heard when you drove past some construction workers. Or perhaps just try to recreate the sound of the universe imploding upon itself.

Or maybe try taking an existing sound and adding creative effects to it instead of synthesizing it.

Be creative.

Whenever I need a good opening bass sound, I try to simulate the screams of tortured souls.

[ÜberTriangle]

4. Presets.

Stay far far away. Delete them if necessary (I have for most of my software), they are what will stop you from ever fully understanding a synth and finding your sound.

You are a sad person, the4thImpulse, do not confuse and scare people.
First of all, presets is the easiest and the best way to learn synth programming. Mindlessly clicking buttons and turning knobs is the worst thing any teacher could advise. Learning on the example, see how professionals did it (also do not disregard factory presets: maybe most of them sound like crap but they serve important function: they showcase the features and power of the synth), recreating your favourite presets, tinkering and reverse engineering them is much better.
Second, presets let the person who can't be bothered with synth programming (at the moment, or at all, Like Hans Zimmer) just go to the more interesting part - composing music.

Please, for the sake of the rest of us.
Don't use samplers to write ambient music.
It's incredibly generic and eventually turns your mix to pure garbage.

what's more important is that you learn your synthesizers, how they work and what kinds of sounds you can make with them.

Please define sampler, are you talking about sample libraries or synthsizers based os sampling? In the first case I pretty much agree with you, you can't make good ambient music out of recorded soundscapes, in the second case... well, Sample-based synthesis is one of the most powerful tools for creating organic soundscapes and embraced by sound designers all over the world. [citation needed]

My two cents:
I. Download oscilloscope
List of free oscilloscpe plugins
WINDOWS. Also this is a good site about synth design
MAC & WINDOWS. This one is considered the best free oscilloscpe.
MAC & WINDOWS
WINDOWS. My favourite.
MAC
ШINDOWS
Also FL Studio users have very good plugin WaveCandy.

Why do you need an oscilloscope?
1. To better understand synth programming, how filters and efects change the sound.
2. To feel yourself "lol lik a pro".
3. To rub your physicist's ego
4. For the next advise.

II. Learn physics and math of sound. I will elaborate more on this, post links to books and sites and other stuff.

III. Try new ways of recording and processing the sound, not only synthesizing it. The best, most memorable sounds ever are processed recorded signals (or even just recoded).

[GumsOfGabby]

4. Presets.

Stay far far away. Delete them if necessary (I have for most of my software), they are what will stop you from ever fully understanding a synth and finding your sound.

You are a sad person, the4thImpulse, do not confuse and scare people.
First of all, presets is the easiest and the best way to learn synth programming. Mindlessly clicking buttons and turning knobs is the worst thing any teacher could advise. Learning on the example, see how professionals did it (also do not disregard factory presets: maybe most of them sound like crap but they serve important function: they showcase the features and power of the synth), recreating your favourite presets, tinkering and reverse engineering them is much better.
Second, presets let the person who can't be bothered with synth programming (at the moment, or at all, Like Hans Zimmer) just go to the more interesting part - composing music.

Came here to say the same thing. Sometimes presets can help one learn. Working backwards from professionally made patches can help one understand what functions certain parameters have and how to use them. Deconstructing presets (in my opinion) is one of the fastest ways to understanding how a synthesiser works.

[the4thImpulse]

You are a sad person, the4thImpulse, do not confuse and scare people.
First of all, presets is the easiest and the best way to learn synth programming. Mindlessly clicking buttons and turning knobs is the worst thing any teacher could advise. Learning on the example, see how professionals did it (also do not disregard factory presets: maybe most of them sound like crap but they serve important function: they showcase the features and power of the synth), recreating your favourite presets, tinkering and reverse engineering them is much better.
Second, presets let the person who can't be bothered with synth programming (at the moment, or at all, Like Hans Zimmer) just go to the more interesting part - composing music.

You need to know who you are talking to on these boards, most of these people have not been making sounds for many years and are already confused in this new world they are venturing into. When most of them start out they stick to the presets on their torrented soft-synth, usually tweak them a bit but they never go deep into the engine. Its the safe way and yes they do get into the composing part part but electronic music has never been about the complex compositions of someone like Hans Zimmer (who does indeed program his synths). Understanding synthesis does not come from reverse engineering a preset, if you take apart a bridge how much will you have learned about every piece in that bridge? You will learn a bit but you won't understand why it works the way it does. The best way to learn synthesis is to study it, on paper, and take what you learn to the program.

Read this series of articles and they will go far more in depth than any preset would ever show you. There are 64 parts, the first 23 go over synthesis; from basic oscillation to complex stuff like sample and hold, and format synthesis, the rest is recreating different 'organic' sounds with synthesis.


I do not mean to stereotype anyone with my phrasing in this post.

[ÜberTriangle]

Message that makes me sad.

I can see your point, basically, you are saying "The truest, the best way to learn synthesis is studying science behind it!". Cannot disagree with this! Studying math and physics is very important, understanding of what exactly "knob thingy" and "this fader" do is a key!
BUT. Disregarding learning from presets is bad from the pedagogical point of view. Why? Examples. We all need examples, some sort of guide. This guide can be a teacher, a mentor, more experienced person. But I guess 95% of us don't know and don't have one, so we need some other guide.

Let me tell you how it was for me: I started to learn all this synth thing not so long ago - 7-9 months or so. I started as everyone - LOL PRESETS LOL TURNINIG KNOBS but this was rustling my jimmies because I am (okay, was) a physics major and LOL KNOBS wasn't apparently my method.
Then I asked JeffTheStrider (aka Stars In Autumn) about the guide he posted, it was the "Synth Secrets" article on Sound On Sound (the link you posted).
After I read that, I knew what do filters do and what is a saw wave but I couldn't make my own sounds that won't sound like a complete disaster. I didn't know what to do or study next so I was just searching for Massive and Sylenth tutorials on Youtube. But all these tutorials were about making sounds I am not interested in and they were all about turning knobs step by step.
But then idea came to my mind: "what if I take a sound I really like, find a preset similar to it, and then recreate it step by step in the style of this tutorial?" This and knowledge that I got from the theory gave me better understanding of wtf I am doing and supposed to do.

Alright, back to my "learning on example" point. You know why dwould this work not only for me? Because we have chiptuners that tinker .ftm's and .xm's, we have web designers who download .psd templates and look at the source code of other sites, we have engineers who reverse engineer appliances to learn how do they work. And presets is no difference, imagine them as guides that professionals kindly made for educational purposes. One sound engineer (I guess the pluginguru guy) mentioned he sorts his presets not only by name and type but also by artists to better understand their workflow and their mindset.
Presets is not only a curse that holds producers back from expanding their knowledge about synths, it's also a gift to all of them who truly want to understand how do certain sounds work.

tl;dr
Presets are still not gay
Whatever the hell you say.

And I want to see more books in this topic. I am reading "The Practical Art of Motion Picture Sound" right now.

[KillerAmp]

I didn't know what to do or study next so I was just searching for Massive and Sylenth tutorials on Youtube. But all these tutorials were about making sounds I am not interested in and they were all about turning knobs step by step.
But then idea came to my mind: "what if I take a sound I really like, find a preset similar to it, and then recreate it step by step in the style of this tutorial?" This and knowledge that I got from the theory gave me better understanding of wtf I am doing and supposed to do.

^This
so much this
To be honest i'm still half in the look up tutorials on "x" sound. I'm also recreating presets as practice as said in quote.

i'm still quite in the range of "i know what each filter does, and i know some wavetables (massive POV) now how do exactly replicate the sound from my head?"

anyone got any tips on that, that would be awesome

[the4thImpulse]

Message that makes me sad.

Presets are still not gay
Whatever the hell you say.

First off your attitude here bothers me, its unnecessary and I would much rather discuss our varied opinions without these little comments.


On topic:
Recreating sounds will help some people as it did for you, but too many people only ever get that far. They say "I have to recreate X sound", which in and of itself is not bad but if they want to make their own sound they should really say "what sounds can I make unique to me". First you must know basic synthesis and I think that guide will do a good job explaining it all, then you need to understand your synth and reading the manual will tell you everything you need to know about the synth. All that's left is making sound and that's where I would not recommend using presets in any way.

If you were to spend two hours recreating presets on a synth how will you have developed your sound?

If you were to spend two hours on a synth, starting from a blank patch, and simply making sounds you will start developing your sound. Its almost psychological thing here, if you believe you will 'find' your sound than you will find it and it wont be from reconstructing presets. Presets show you what other people have made but you want to sound like you so start from scratch and make sounds.

In my first post I mentioned inspiration, I often here sounds I like in other peoples music (deadmau5 for example) and when I want to try to recreate it I always let myself slip away when I start making something I personally like. I don't force myself to follow in his 'footsteps', I see where he goes with the sound but I instead go a different route after being inspired by the sound he made.

Take a look at modular synths, that's where people find their sound because there are no presets to distract them and when they own one they are forced to study sound synthesis.

[ÜberTriangle]

Message.

Alright, you are completely right, to develop "your sound", to be unique you sholdn't use presets in any possible way, because using someone's sound is the opposite of being unique.

But I wasn't talking about developing your sound, I was talking about learning. Why would you "invent a bycicle" and make yet another Hammond or 303 Arp or deadau5's House chord synth when it's already done and you can see how it's done? The knowledge of thousands people, century of synth programming is just a few clicks away, and it's not a sin to use it.

Though I am still completely agree about developing new sound: if you want to be creative and considered as one, pushing boundaries of electronic music and sound design then don't use presets.

P.S. Also, I know that most of the newbie electronic producers dismiss last two parts of this picture

[ÜberTriangle]

i'm still quite in the range of "i know what each filter does, and i know some wavetables (massive POV) now how do exactly replicate the sound from my head?"

I guess it takes very much time to just "replicate your sounds out of head" but here are the tips:

1. Very helpful beginner's guide:

Read this series of articles and they will go far more in depth than any preset would ever show you. There are 64 parts, the first 23 go over synthesis; from basic oscillation to complex stuff like sample and hold, and format synthesis, the rest is recreating different 'organic' sounds with synthesis.

2. RTFM. Yes, the whole thing.

3.

Download oscilloscope
List of free oscilloscpe plugins
WINDOWS. Also this is a good site about synth design
MAC & WINDOWS. This one is considered the best free oscilloscpe.
MAC & WINDOWS
WINDOWS. My favourite.
MAC
ШINDOWS
Also FL Studio users have very good plugin WaveCandy.

Why do you need an oscilloscope?
To better understand synth programming, how filters and efects change the sound.

4. Tinker existing sounds, learn history of electronic music, learn math and physics of sound.

5. Try other ways of creating your sounds rather than wavetable or subtractive synthesis.

6. Be an elitist and a synth god like us.

[bartekko]

Shut up you both,but 4thimpulse more

[ÜberTriangle]

My jimmies haven't been so rustled in a long time.

[JayB]

I might be a bit of a weirdo here, but I think it's much harder to get into sound design by moving sliders on your screen. For me it's like learning guitar from only a sheet of paper. If you take a hardware synth (like the Roland Gaia) you can actually see the signal flow, literally grab into it, and I'm convinced that this brings you much closer to The Magics(TM) behind all these knobs than anything you can only move with a mouse cursor.

That is my opinion. I've learned sound programming from hardware synths. Without having read books. Just by turning knobs. I can program software synths as well, but I find it more exhausting because it feels like what you do and what you hear is not the same. Besides that: in the time I need to target a virtual knob with my mouse and move it into a desired position I've turned like three physical knobs already.

-JayB

[the4thImpulse]

I might be a bit of a weirdo here, but I think it's much harder to get into sound design by moving sliders on your screen. For me it's like learning guitar from only a sheet of paper. If you take a hardware synth (like the Roland Gaia) you can actually see the signal flow, literally grab into it, and I'm convinced that this brings you much closer to The Magics(TM) behind all these knobs than anything you can only move with a mouse cursor.

That is my opinion. I've learned sound programming from hardware synths. Without having read books. Just by turning knobs. I can program software synths as well, but I find it more exhausting because it feels like what you do and what you hear is not the same. Besides that: in the time I need to target a virtual knob with my mouse and move it into a desired position I've turned like three physical knobs already.

-JayB

I have experienced this too, hardware is naturally far more intuitive then even midi controllers. You move a dedicated slider and it always works the same way. Even a crappy/cheap hardware synth with good amount of dedicated knobs/sliders laid out in that 'signal path' form will really help those who learn through visual and hands on mediums. If anyone is interested in hardware then look though your local classifieds, bigger cities will have more options of course and I have driven 8 hour trips to get my hands on used gear because of savings.

I can definitely vouch for the fact that once you know your hardware you can far more easily/quickly edit and tweak stuff, its beautiful.

Shut up you both, but 4thimpulse more

The way I see it is we had a disagreement and we sorted it all out, it stayed on topic and gave two great opinions on the subject, that is what forums like this are all about.

[DrSorkenstein]

I think most of the problems relating to unintuitive softsynths come as an effect of designers not confing themselves to a GUI format that could function irl. A hardware synth doesn't have the luxoury of hiding extra options and/or routing possibilities in "tabs" but rather has to have a intuitive and simple UI that will fit the limitations placed upon it by the overall design.

I personally prefer softsynths whose GUI is confined to a single screen with an overall design reminicent of real hardware. A softsynth designed as a hardsynth will be a lot more useful and fun to use in my experience, even if it sacrifices more advanxed features. (A good softsynth will of course find ways to be both user friendly and useful at the same time.)

A personal tip: try limiting yourself in terms of how many instruments/plugins you use. Stick to a few you really know inside out and learn to "make more of less". Don't try every plugin at once but rather try a few at a time.

[vladnuke]

I think most of the problems relating to unintuitive softsynths come as an effect of designers not confing themselves to a GUI format that could function irl. A hardware synth doesn't have the luxoury of hiding extra options and/or routing possibilities in "tabs" but rather has to have a intuitive and simple UI that will fit the limitations placed upon it by the overall design.

I personally prefer softsynths whose GUI is confined to a single screen with an overall design reminicent of real hardware. A softsynth designed as a hardsynth will be a lot more useful and fun to use in my experience, even if it sacrifices more advanxed features. (A good softsynth will of course find ways to be both user friendly and useful at the same time.)

A personal tip: try limiting yourself in terms of how many instruments/plugins you use. Stick to a few you really know inside out and learn to "make more of less". Don't try every plugin at once but rather try a few at a time.

This right here, man. This is what is up. Just do one thing at a time. Multitasking is a trap for the corprate.

[ChromaticChaosPony]

Automate every single available parameter with an envelope and/or an LFO.

That is all.

[bartekko]

Automate every single available parameter with an envelope and/or an LFO.

That is all.

having more automations doesn't necessarily mean a better sound.
:3 you should probably learn the program as much as you possibly can so you understand the synthesis well enough to know exactly what you're doing.

>not noticing not being serious.

[ChromaticChaosPony]

That post was half serious. I have a tendency to automate a lot of available parameters because I love to have non-repetitive, bizzare sounds. I know it doesn't sound good, but I like making certain parts of my music sound bad. I haven't released any songs like this yet, but this is how all of my current WIPs are.

Not necessarily a troll post. More of an experimental technique that I love.

[colortwelve]

I'll just toss this out here:

Sinewave + sawtooth + lots and lots of filters (specifically vowel, bandreject, and phaser) + automation = a general formula for some of my favorite from-scratch sounds ^_^