Your thoughts on someone going mainstream

[ExoBassTix]

So recently I found out that lots of good producers are going mainstream. I'll give three examples that particularly stood out to me:
- Headhunterz (masters of Hardstyle) sign with Ultra Records.
- DJ Scot Project (god of Hard Trance) makes ordinary Trance and even Progressive House.
- Boris S. (Hardtechno legend) starts focusing on producing Dubstep hybrids.

I want to know what you guys think about this.

[ExoBassTix]

I'll say that the three examples I gave, it's mainstream for their doing. Facebook was upside-down when Headhunterz brought out the news of their signing to Ultra Recs.

Oh, and songs like Year Of Summer (by Wildstylez) weren't made with the intent to be mainstream. The radio just made it mainstream (if anybody happened to follow the Hardstyle-on-the-radio shitstorm, know that I'm pretty much with Frontliner. Noisecontrollers were unprofessional as buck). Few weeks ago (I think) at Knock Out Festival, one DJ played Year Of Summer. Never a bigger disappointment spread throughout the crowd in a Hardstyle event.

[Nine Volt]

On them going mainstream? I don't particularly care. If that's what they want to do then they should go for it.

[topitmunkeydog]

Ok so I heard Little Talks by Of Monsters and Men shortly before it was released because I stumbled upon this compilation CD of Icelandic music. I thought the song was great, but I never thought it would go mainstream because it was pretty different. This was maybe a year ago. Shortly after that folk music became trendy. Only just recently the radios learned of Little Talks, and they have been playing it nonstop. You can imagine how surprised I was when I heard that song playing on my school bus- and the preppies singing along. I don't like the fact that people are just listening to folk music because the media tells them it is trendy to do so, but the recent influx of folk music entering the mainstream has made going out in public a lot more tolerable for me (although it seems the other pop music has gotten even worse.)

I also knew about the band fun. before they released their second album, Some Nights. Their first album was pretty popular among alternative rockers, and I loved the song The Gambler. In this case I was pretty annoyed when they got popular and released their second album (along with We Are Young) because these guys, as opposed to Of Monsters and Men, totally sold out. They just sound like stupid pop now-- better than Rhianna crap, but still pretty simplistic.

And then there's Passion Pit. I was introduced to them like last summer by a friend and we went to go see them in concert. I feel lucky that I saw them because shortly after everybody knew about Passion Pit and nowadays tickets would probably cost like $100 (I got mine for $30)

In short I am glad that more people are learning to appreciate good music, but these bands going mainstream make it harder for me to appreciate them. Ticket prices go up so I will probably never get to see any of these bands live again, and people overplaying songs kind of just ruins them.

[Freewave]

It's tough because electronic by nature shouldn't be mainstream although the mainstream is always trying to tap into that (see Madonna, Lady Gaga, Black Eyed Peas) and I'm sure some artists want to reach up and get that bigger fanbase. Signing onto a label shouldn't mean that you've sold out, but making music that's lost its edge or has gone glossy does. But ask if you can still enjoy that music even if you don't like it the same way?

Musicians either stay the same on every album (the ac/dc, oasis, interpol method), get glossier (the u2 or coldplay method), or descend into their own buttholes (radiohead and bjork method) to get esoteric. There's really not many other directions to go during a career just give them a try if they do something new and try to enjoy it. If it's lost its magic of what made them special then find one of hundreds of new artists who will gladly take their place for you instead.

For example, I still love Coldplay even though they've moved away from what I want them to be (X+Y was pretty poor, Viva was their best album, and their current one is good on relistens) but yeah its frustrating when you could see a band for $35 and be in the first row (twice) and then how they're nearly 3 times that price for seats in the back. But that's not their fault, it's because they aren't YOUR little band anymore, because of inflation, and they've just got a lot more fans....waddayoudo

[itroitnyah]

It really bugs me when people decide that because a producer got signed or started to go mainstream that the artist is "selling out" and go ape shit over how the artist is changing. I really don't care much about what genre of music artists make or what they're known for, if they make good music I'll listen to the music. Of course, if they're actually making music simply because they've "sold out" and just want the money, then whatever. As long as they're making good music. But deep down inside, I'll know that a little part of them dies every time they release a new song. And their song won't have as much mood or feeling to it, as, say, Adventure Club (seeing as they release their songs for free download, I'm fairly certain that they aren't "sold out")

[Nine Volt]

Mainstream =/= bad

[topitmunkeydog]

I actually came onto the Coldplay scene really late, right before they released Mylo Xyloto. I think Viva la Vida was pretty popular idk though but Mylo Xyloto was VERY popular. Yeah, my favorite album of theirs was Viva la Vida, not only because it was the first Coldplay album I listened to, but also the first rock album that wasn't from like the 70's or something. (actually this is how I heard of Coldplay for the first time lol)
Just wondering, why is X&Y so bad? I heard that album, and thought it was great! I liked it a lot better than A Rush of Blood to the Head; I know everybody adored that one but I hated it except for The Scientist and CLocks.

OK another complainy thing
So Sigur Ros has been my favorite band for a long time. They released their newest album Valtari a while back, and did a film competition about the album. Now, most of the films were amazing, but the winning entry, a video for Fjogür Piano apparently got really popular. Why? Because somehow they got Shia Leboeuf to act in it, with no clothes on. Now I haven't actually seen this video because I avoid nsfw like the plague but Fjogur Piano was my favorite song from the album and now the only thing people can associate with it is "Shia Leboeuf." Like, why should the most amazing band in the history of bands be best known as "oh Sigur Ros, isn't that the band that made the video with naked Shia Leboeuf?" I mean, the video could probably be utterly genius, but the fact that it's Shia Leboeuf and he's not wearing any pants is what made the song so viral. That annoys me, they aren't appreciating the art and they are watching it for the wrong reason. The same (to a lesser extent because she was wearing clothes luckily) for Yeasayer's Madder Red video, starring Kristen Bell.

[Freewave]

I actually came onto the Coldplay scene really late, right before they released Mylo Xyloto. I think Viva la Vida was pretty popular idk though but Mylo Xyloto was VERY popular. Yeah, my favorite album of theirs was Viva la Vida, not only because it was the first Coldplay album I listened to, but also the first rock album that wasn't from like the 70's or something. (actually this is how I heard of Coldplay for the first time lol)
Just wondering, why is X&Y so bad? I heard that album, and thought it was great! I liked it a lot better than A Rush of Blood to the Head; I know everybody adored that one but I hated it except for The Scientist and CLocks.

This will be long, sorry for the text wall going to occur.

I got into Coldplay really early. My wife had gotten turned onto them after getting hooked onto Travis and some of the good music that was just starting to come out of the UK. I liked Parachutes but a lot of the tracks were too melow for me. Wehn i saw them at teh small theater over here they only sold half their show out (it was a pretty rainy day which didnt help). AROBTTH i thought was a much larger album, more diverse, and had a lot more things going on. I got to see them debut the album a few weeks early (amazingly enough Clocks wasn't one of my favs at the first listen) in an even smaller club in Boulder. A few months after they came back through town i got to see that at the Filmore (the place they first came through) and they sold out this time AND we won backstage passes to their soundcheck. Got to see them perform 3 tracks (they played A Whisper for us which they only played) and they signed a bunch of shwag for us, we later got to see them perform in the front row an hour later. We met some people there that we saw further concerts with and a few of them we tapers and were helping record the show for later listening.

From that point on my wife and i were dedicated fans. We saw them in Red Rocks front row at the show they eventually put on their dvd (you can see me VERY briefly). I downloaded and traded for a lot of live concert shows as they often did cover tunes and previewed upcoming tracks. We saw them each time they came around although the prices went up, the seats got further back, and the shows meant a little less to us each time. While X+Y has some good songs on it, it was the feeling that the band had coasted on it that really seemed pretty evident and a lot of fans were upset and moved on at that point. Biggest problem was that the band couldn't agree on what songs were the best so they included everything and they also were forced to put it out early to meet their labels deadlines. The album seemed lyrically weak, the weaker songs and the second half are rather bland, their b-sides (always one of their strongest strength) were uneventful, they picked poor singles for radio play and had some lame videos as well (The Hardest Part was awful!), and their concert setlists became predictable and repetitive. Sure they gathered a lot of whole new fans in the process to offset those that dropped out but it looked really troubling. I hung in there but i was really not enthusiastic anymore.

Viva la Vida really is their best album in my eyes. It was so much more solid, better produced, and had a ton of world-wide infleunces to reflect all their world tours. They finally started sounding more confident, and were back in the saddle creatively. And here's why, they changed the rut they were in:

Interview with Chris:
What was Brian Eno's assessment of the band?
He goes, "Your songs are too long. And you're too repetitive, and you use the same tricks too much, and big things aren't necessarily good things, and you use the same sounds too much, and your lyrics are not good enough." He broke it down.

How did you respond?
You deal with it. You can either sit 'round, look at your platinum discs and say, "Fuck you, you're all wrong," or you can go, "OK, he's probably got a point." Brian and Markus [Dravs, the co-producer] broke us down in a sort of military boot-camp way. Within 20 minutes, we'd forgotten about any previous record sales.

X&Y got some mixed reviews, but the harshest was from the New York Times, which called Coldplay the most insufferable band of the decade. How did you handle that?

It was a big deal. It's the first real attack on your band, and from a publication we all respect. I agreed with a lot of the points. It was like, "Yeah, I do sometimes go for the obvious, and I do sometimes fall back on old tricks." So, in a way, it was liberating to see that someone else realized that also. And there is something glamorous to me in taking a bit of a beating and keeping on going. When you do something that some people don't like quite so much, then you are free again. Your whole canvas is open. You don't have to fall back on piano, we don't have to fall back on falsetto, you don't have to fall back on every song being a yearning love song.

I might not like Mylo Xyloto as much but they FEEL more confident about themselves now and its the album THEY wanted to make and there are some great songs on it and it is a concept album. If they're happy with it then i can try to be as happy too even if its not one of my most favorites.

[Friv]

Mainstream /=/ bad. Commercialism = bad. If an artist caters to what the mainstream listeners want, they lose their passion and dedication/effort to their craft most of the time. Listen to Sander Van Doorn's old music (trance) and then listen to his newer music (generic mainroom electro house with simple "modern talking" basses made to cater to fist pumping 'Mericans). I don't mind when an artist becomes popular and mainstream, I do however mind when an artist just follows the bandwagon to success by losing their passion and catering to what the majority of listeners (by listeners I don't mean their already existent fans, I mean the people who listen to the catered and passionless music) want. Keep in mind when you read this, that there IS a difference between an artist's taste in music changing, and the popular style changing. With that in mind, I don't think any genre's really are "mainstream", but I do think there is a mainstream approach and style to many popular genres, whereas hipsters (or whatever you want to call them) will separate the mainstream style of the genre from their underground music.

[Viricide Filly]

All mainstream music is terrible and the only good music are by people with under 50 subscribers on music who make music about horses

[ghelded_kultz]

All mainstream music is terrible and the only good music are by people with under 50 subscribers on music who make music about horses

According to this, Ghelded Kultz make best muzak!!!!!




On a more serious note: My issue isn't going mainstream itself, it's artists who water themselves down to become mainstream and/or lose creative control when they go mainstream that annoy me. Especially when they start making a whole lot of power ballads when before they were a decent band. So basically what's been said already.

But I will note that there is a definitely a difference between "mainstream" genres and "underground" genres. This doesn't mean that all creators of "mainstream" music are popular and all "underground" music is made by unpopular artists, but there is a split. To use an extreme example: Power Electronics will never be a mainstream genre and I would like to know how there can be a mainstream style of it (really, I do because that would be hilarious. I really want to see bros listening and talking about how cool power electronics is.) Dance-Pop is inherently mainstream though it is easier to make a so-called underground dance-pop song then a mainstream power electronics song.

"Hipsters" are funny because they are pushing underground music into the mainstream. I'd consider "indie" to be mainstream now. Sort of how like grunge was underground and then it became mainstream. However it was mainstream before the "mainstream style" of grunge (Post-grunge, like Creed and Nickleback) became predominant.

So overall. Selling out exists and is bad, but getting popular is fine. There are mainstream, underground, and borderline genres. Hipsters are silly.

[Navron]

...and Nickleback

I wouldn't even call them post-shit. It'd be too high for them. The lyrics and music (if you call 4 power chords music) make me feel like I'm listening to a sellout singing to me about how awesome it is being a sellout.

[bartekko]

...and Nickleback

I wouldn't even call them post-shit. It'd be too high for them. The lyrics and music (if you call 4 power chords music) make me feel like I'm listening to a sellout singing to me about how awesome it is being a sellout.

[url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThreeChordsAndTheTruth]
THEIR MUSIC IS TRU BCUZ DEY DONT CAER ABUT BiING 2 SOFISTICAED[/url]
NIRVANAH

[Lying Pink]

But I will note that there is a definitely a difference between "mainstream" genres and "underground" genres. This doesn't mean that all creators of "mainstream" music are popular and all "underground" music is made by unpopular artists, but there is a split.

Personally I'd call it less a split and more a continuum. For example, Sutcliffe Jugend are more underground than Swans, who are more underground than Pantera, who are less mainstream than Frank Ocean, who's less mainstream than Lady Gaga. Like you said, there are borderline cases. Don't know exactly where I'd draw the line(s), either. Swans aren't really mainstream for example, but Grimes cites them as an influence and she's - well-known in hipsterish circles, at least. I'd say the whole indie-going-mainstream thing has always happened; it happened to house and grunge and goth and punk and jazz and... dadaism. I've never been sure how much of it is people becoming more accustomed to new sounds and how much of it is more fringe genres getting their sharp edges worn down and becoming more palatable to your average radio listener.
/brainvomit

I kind of enjoy when artists go a bit mainstream and deliberately ham up the mainstream trappings to the point where they become grotesque and... completely un-mainstream. Like Mike Patton, maybe.

[Makkon]

My only advice: stop listening to the radio

Otherwise, if someone has the opportunity to make money from doing what they love, then I say TAKE IT. Just be careful who you sign up with...

[v.lossity]

OK another complainy thing
So Sigur Ros has been my favorite band for a long time. They released their newest album Valtari a while back, and did a film competition about the album. Now, most of the films were amazing, but the winning entry, a video for Fjogür Piano apparently got really popular. Why? Because somehow they got Shia Leboeuf to act in it, with no clothes on. Now I haven't actually seen this video because I avoid nsfw like the plague but Fjogur Piano was my favorite song from the album and now the only thing people can associate with it is "Shia Leboeuf." Like, why should the most amazing band in the history of bands be best known as "oh Sigur Ros, isn't that the band that made the video with naked Shia Leboeuf?" I mean, the video could probably be utterly genius, but the fact that it's Shia Leboeuf and he's not wearing any pants is what made the song so viral. That annoys me, they aren't appreciating the art and they are watching it for the wrong reason.

I saw this video and was pretty surprised when there was nudity in it (it was on youtube) but here is the thing. Its not like thats the point of the video. Its not the focus at all. If it gets a bunch of teenage girls panties wet oh well but the video (IMO) is actually well done and quite interesting. Its one of those things where it tells a story that starts at the end and you dont see the beginning until the final few seconds. I liked it a lot. Before ranting, you might want to give it a chance.

[HMage]

I don't understand this.

You want to be a hipster that listens to obscure vaguely known music artists?

[topitmunkeydog]

I saw this video and was pretty surprised when there was nudity in it (it was on youtube) but here is the thing. Its not like that's the point of the video. Its not the focus at all. If it gets a bunch of teenage girls panties wet oh well but the video (IMO) is actually well done and quite interesting. Its one of those things where it tells a story that starts at the end and you don't see the beginning until the final few seconds. I liked it a lot. Before ranting, you might want to give it a chance.

Yeah, as I said, Shia LeBoeuf was not even the focus of the video, or the song even. But because he is famous as hell, and he's not wearing any pants, that is what everybody will remember the video for, even if every other aspect of it is totally amazing. I bet the video is pretty amazing, because the other winners were for sure. It's just that people don't care about the artistry, just seeing Shia Leboeuf with no clothes. I'm not claiming that's all it is though. I've heard it's beautiful, but I just really don't like edgy things. It's just that I don't want to see a band go mainstream if people aren't even listening to the music for the sake of listening to the music.
I'm kind of guilty of what I am talking about though. My favorite video from the Valtari Mystery Film project starred Elle Fanning, who I totally have a fancrush on. However that is not the only reason I watched it, bceause I also appreciate the artistic direction and skill put into the video and music.

Also so sometimes some of my non-hipster friends call me a hipster because I hate all the video games they play (mostly Minecraft is what I hate with all my heart.) But I don't know if I am a hipster, because I don't go listening to music based on its popularity. Mostly I listen to certain bands just because I like their music. This means that a lot of my favorite bands are things that people have never heard of, simply because their music is better than mainstream things. Also, a lot of the time, I go very unaware of how popular something is getting (e.g. Passion Pit) because I never listen to the radio.

[CaptainFluffatun]

My thoughts:



Who cares.

[v.lossity]

Yeah, as I said, Shia LeBoeuf was not even the focus of the video, or the song even. But because he is famous as hell, and he's not wearing any pants, that is what everybody will remember the video for, even if every other aspect of it is totally amazing. I bet the video is pretty amazing, because the other winners were for sure. It's just that people don't care about the artistry, just seeing Shia Leboeuf with no clothes. I'm not claiming that's all it is though. I've heard it's beautiful, but I just really don't like edgy things. It's just that I don't want to see a band go mainstream if people aren't even listening to the music for the sake of listening to the music.
I'm kind of guilty of what I am talking about though. My favorite video from the Valtari Mystery Film project starred Elle Fanning, who I totally have a fancrush on. However that is not the only reason I watched it, bceause I also appreciate the artistic direction and skill put into the video and music.

I think your complaint is misdirected. It sounds like instead of complaining about mainstream music, you are complaining about mainstream society. I mean, if you expect people to look up the song "Im sexy and I know it" because they think it will be a well-done piece of music, or look up a video with Shia LeBouf's wang in it because of the "artistry", you have some pretty unrealistic expectations. Yeah its nice to be able to come to MLR and discuss the musical merits of your favorite new artist or whatever, but do you really expect the majority of society to be able to hold a conversation about art on that same level? Of course not. The basic concepts that everyone can relate to will be things like "Oh dem wubs", or "it just sounds cool", or Shia LeBoufs wang, or some singers sexy dancing, etc. I think that expecting conversation on a higher level than this is asking too much. The people who will be having those higher level conversations, the ones who discuss the vocalists voice "eh she sounds too nasally" or who can praise the songwriting ability, or whatever are not going to be every-day people. They are going to be musicians. So I think what I am getting to is that no, everyday people are not going to like the best music, and yes musicians and other artists have to use gimmicks (Shia's little bald man) to get the masses' attention, and yes it can be baffling how long good artists can go without recognition from the majority of music listeners, but that is because they are not musicians. They don't know the difference.

And yes, that is quite frustrating.

[colortwelve]

I used to hate pop music. Then I read that deadmau5 thanked Lady Gaga for bringing such a large house influence into pop music. The other day I heard Clarity by Zedd on a Top 40 station, and it made my fucking day. And, of course, SHM's Don't You Worry Child is all over too. And yeah, I knew these songs before the mainstream discovered them, but I'm so fucking happy that they were discovered at all. When Zedd gets to be on pop radio when he's not just producing for Justin Beiber (although that track impressed me in its own right), I'm less inclined to accuse the artists of selling out and more inclined to applaud the mainstream for taking in legitimately good music.

And pop itself is pretty fragmented, too. You've got the remnants of early-2000s pop-rock, house influences, straight-up house, dubstep and its mutant cousins, folk and indie, hip-hop, and #realtrapshit. And while it may make for an oddly compartmentalized group of fans of whatever's 'mainstream,' it also makes it actually interesting to listen to a Top 40 station - it's not all as cookie-cutter as it used to be.

I guess I could sum up by saying it's not really an artist's 'fault' if they go mainstream. If you want to blame anyone, blame the people who've changed the mainstream.

[Lying Pink]

and yes it can be baffling how long good artists can go without recognition from the majority of music listeners, but that is because they are not musicians. They don't know the difference.

Personally I'm just as frustrated by people who categorically loathe anything mainstream because it isn't 2deep enough - perhaps more frustrated since they allegedly possess a more refined sense of musicality and yet can't enjoy somthing in spite of its flaws - and there are people like that in every genre and scene and section of music. It's one thing having preferences and opinions, but it's entirely another when it becomes a cause for elitism. Classical musicians and fans who belittle fans of anything else, trad jazzheads who ridicule anything made after the '50s, metalheads who hate Korn fans, dubstep fans who launch into half-hour tirades when someone mentions Skrillex... bluh.

[LoreRD]

I'm too surrounded by people who have vastly different tastes in music to mine to judge people based on their choice in music. I've basically come to terms with the fact that while I can introduce people to new artists and kinds of music, a whole lot of people are just not as into music as I am, and as such are less concerned about the precise musicality of a piece.

You like Nickelback? Good for you, why do you like them? Can't explain why? Then good for you, I disagree, but I can't really change your opinion. You only listen to what's on the radio because it's "cool"? I won't be asking you for any musical advice anytime soon and wish you'd be less narrow-minded.

I honestly really don't care if something sounds "mainstream" or not. Labelling music as such just distracts from the value of the music and what it's actually about. Sure, some there are some trends in popular music that I really don't care for (vapid lyrics, generic composition, etc.), but those I can basically just brush off as "not my tastes".

I'll listen to the music I enjoy, "mainstream" or not, and expand my tastes as much as possible. I believe listening to as wide of a variety of music as possible is a great way to evolve as an artist. Clinging to a single genre or crowd because "I only listen to X" is (IMO) narrow-mindedness.

And STOP complaining at the artists for being a "sellout" (god I hate that term). They are doing what they love, and if they want to keep doing that, they have to make money. If the music they make doesn't satisfy you anymore, STOP LISTENING TO IT. Don't sit around and moan about how (for example) "Green Day used to be so good...". Just listen to their old records. THOSE aren't somehow deleted from existence, and you apparently still like them. The band can't always please everyone and doesn't have to please just you every record.

(not specifically directed at anyone in the thread, I'm just contributing to the discussion)

[Lying Pink]

And STOP complaining at the artists for being a "sellout" (god I hate that term). They are doing what they love, and if they want to keep doing that, they have to make money.

This video from about 06:58 puts those kind of comments better than I could, I think.
Also I've got to stop replying to this thread, I'm just doing it because I don't want to go to bed now, and that's silly.