if you guys haven't seen this yet, watch it.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

My teacher showed this to the entire class recently, by the end of it, at least 5 or 6 people were tearing up. Honestly, this has to be one of the best arguments against bullying I've ever seen.

[CDPP]

Just watched it, teared up a bit. I'm sure almost everyone could relate to this, thanks for sharing.

[itroitnyah]

yeah, I watched it and it is pretty good. It's really well put together and I like it.

On the topic of like bullying and suicidal people and stuff, I think that people who commit suicide because "nobody likes them" or "everything is going wrong for them" are incredibly egocentric or are just too prideful to make mistakes. And honestly, if you're cutting yourself because "nobody likes me", then you're not helping your situation because I can't really think of anybody who actually wants to associate themselves with some whiny idiot who can't seem to get over how he/she doesn't have friends. That's just not how society works, they're like dogs without all the cute or rewarding friendship, they just want a bunch of attention and people to tell them how awesome they are. Yeah, I've been through some bullying before (just in two years of middle school until I moved, and it wasn't like they show in movies where bullies followed me around constantly beating on me with words or fists or anything), so I do know to some degree what they're going through. I'm probably going to get quite a bit of flack for this rant though, lol.

[Ed Viper]

I saw this a couple weeks ago and was blown away. I was bullied something fierce back in middle school, but it lessened quite a bit in high school, and now doesn't exist in college (college is so fucking awesome, dude). I have the thickest skin in the world because of it, though, but I guess I took the threats from bullies differently than most people. It's more of like a "I've heard it all, so literally nothing you can say can hurt me" kind of deal. Nowadays it's more like "If the worst thing you have to say about me is that I'm fat, you're just not trying hard enough", but the point remains.

But, back to the video - it's these kinds of things that inspire me, I think. I dunno.

If any of you (and I mean any) of you are having trouble with people at school or something like that, or are just generally depressed, contact me on Skype (my Skype name is in my signature) and I'll be more than happy to talk with you. Don't be shy, I won't bite. If you do add me, I will reach out to you, though. I understand it can be hard to initiate a conversation with someone else about this sort of thing, so I often take the initiative in these cases.

Much love to you all

[Nine Volt]

Oh look, bullying. Mr. Volt definitely has something to say :3

On the topic of like bullying and suicidal people and stuff, I think that people who commit suicide because "nobody likes them" or "everything is going wrong for them" are incredibly egocentric or are just too prideful to make mistakes. And honestly, if you're cutting yourself because "nobody likes me", then you're not helping your situation because I can't really think of anybody who actually wants to associate themselves with some whiny idiot who can't seem to get over how he/she doesn't have friends. That's just not how society works, they're like dogs without all the cute or rewarding friendship, they just want a bunch of attention and people to tell them how awesome they are. Yeah, I've been through some bullying before (just in two years of middle school until I moved, and it wasn't like they show in movies where bullies followed me around constantly beating on me with words or fists or anything), so I do know to some degree what they're going through. I'm probably going to get quite a bit of flack for this rant though, lol.

^This

Seriously, any mentally sound kid/teen/adult who kills themselves over bullying is, in my eyes, a coward of some of the worst sorts: willing to inflict horrible grief and sorrow onto their families and friends just because they "can't handle it" or "don't have friends". It's not sad, it's pathetic, and we (America, in my case) need to stop treating kids who kill themselves as some kind of martyrs.

[Magnitude Zero]

yeah, I watched it and it is pretty good. It's really well put together and I like it.

On the topic of like bullying and suicidal people and stuff, I think that people who commit suicide because "nobody likes them" or "everything is going wrong for them" are incredibly egocentric or are just too prideful to make mistakes. And honestly, if you're cutting yourself because "nobody likes me", then you're not helping your situation because I can't really think of anybody who actually wants to associate themselves with some whiny idiot who can't seem to get over how he/she doesn't have friends. That's just not how society works, they're like dogs without all the cute or rewarding friendship, they just want a bunch of attention and people to tell them how awesome they are. Yeah, I've been through some bullying before (just in two years of middle school until I moved, and it wasn't like they show in movies where bullies followed me around constantly beating on me with words or fists or anything), so I do know to some degree what they're going through. I'm probably going to get quite a bit of flack for this rant though, lol.

Stop.

You have this habit of voicing your opinions in threads that are barely related in such a way that they are bound to start controversy. Knowing full well that it will cause controversy. Why do you do that?

I'm someone who has been deeply affected by suicide my entire life. I've lost multiple family members to it. I'm on the verge of losing multiple friends, and myself, to it. Please don't pretend you know what these people went through and are going through. I sincerely hope you don't believe that the suicidal and people that cut themselves are doing it for attention. They are doing it because they truly believe there is no other way for them to escape what they perceive as a living hell.

You said you were bullied. I'm sorry. It's a terrible experience. It's humiliating and degrading and it sucks in every possible way. But you just compared me to a dog, dude. I'm just an attention-starved dog. My family members just wanted attention, and now they're dead. But that's okay. They're just dogs. We'll bury them in the garden and maybe in a couple years get a new one- oh, wait.

Please, please understand that it's not as simple as "getting over it". If it was that easy we'd have done it already.

-

Went to post this, saw Nine Volt's post. Is this really a common belief? What the fuck kind of forum is this?

[Nine Volt]

yeah, I watched it and it is pretty good. It's really well put together and I like it.

On the topic of like bullying and suicidal people and stuff, I think that people who commit suicide because "nobody likes them" or "everything is going wrong for them" are incredibly egocentric or are just too prideful to make mistakes. And honestly, if you're cutting yourself because "nobody likes me", then you're not helping your situation because I can't really think of anybody who actually wants to associate themselves with some whiny idiot who can't seem to get over how he/she doesn't have friends. That's just not how society works, they're like dogs without all the cute or rewarding friendship, they just want a bunch of attention and people to tell them how awesome they are. Yeah, I've been through some bullying before (just in two years of middle school until I moved, and it wasn't like they show in movies where bullies followed me around constantly beating on me with words or fists or anything), so I do know to some degree what they're going through. I'm probably going to get quite a bit of flack for this rant though, lol.

Stop.

You have this habit of voicing your opinions in threads that are barely related in such a way that they are bound to start controversy. Knowing full well that it will cause controversy. Why do you do that?

I'm someone who has been deeply affected by suicide my entire life. I've lost multiple family members to it. I'm on the verge of losing multiple friends, and myself, to it. Please don't pretend you know what these people went through and are going through. I sincerely hope you don't believe that the suicidal and people that cut themselves are doing it for attention. They are doing it because they truly believe there is no other way for them to escape what they perceive as a living hell.

You said you were bullied. I'm sorry. It's a terrible experience. It's humiliating and degrading and it sucks in every possible way. But you just compared me to a dog, dude. I'm just an attention-starved dog. My family members just wanted attention, and now they're dead. But that's okay. They're just dogs. We'll bury them in the garden and maybe in a couple years get a new one- oh, wait.

Please, please understand that it's not as simple as "getting over it". If it was that easy we'd have done it already.

-

Went to post this, saw Nine Volt's post. Is this really a common belief? What the fuck kind of forum is this?

Hate to break it to you buddy, but you're not the only one here who's been affected by suicide.

Now, I'm not and never said they're only doing it for attention. I'm actually saying that we need to stop martyring/quasi-glorifying people who commit suicide and need to focus our attention on preventing it in the first place.

[Magnitude Zero]

Hate to break it to you buddy, but you're not the only one here who's been affected by suicide.

If you were then you should know it's not "cowardly" and "pathetic".

Now, I'm not and never said they're only doing it for attention. I'm actually saying that we need to stop martyring/quasi-glorifying people who commit suicide and need to focus our attention on preventing it in the first place.

That's not at all what you said.

This is going nowhere fast, and this is not at all something I want to discuss further. I don't want to drive the discussion away from the video, which really was beautiful. But I really, really hope you guys come to your senses about this.

[Nine Volt]

Hate to break it to you buddy, but you're not the only one here who's been affected by suicide.

If you were then you should know it's not "cowardly" and "pathetic".

Now, I'm not and never said they're only doing it for attention. I'm actually saying that we need to stop martyring/quasi-glorifying people who commit suicide and need to focus our attention on preventing it in the first place.

That's not at all what you said.

This is going nowhere fast, and this is not at all something I want to discuss further. I don't want to drive the discussion away from the video, which really was beautiful.

Well, I changed my mind. I'm not going to pretend that's what I said, because it's not. I decided to say that now.

But I really, really hope you guys come to your senses about this.

That is, of course, assuming your opinion is correct, which is in and of itself an impossibility, just as my opinion being correct is.

But I agree, there's no possible good outcome for this. I'm not going to argue it any further. Even if for some ungodly reason you PM me.

[itroitnyah]

He's angry at me and Nine Volt

Well I'm sorry to hear that you lost some family members and friends to suicide.

Yes, I am indeed quite controversial. I have so many controversial opinions, that if I could fill a book with my opinions, I'd probably be considered a terrorist and hunted down by the government. For example:

I don't think that pedophiles are actually bad people, I just think they'd be more accepted if they weren't raping the children.

Anyways, if I came off as a bit harsh, sorry. To clarify, I do not hate the people who kill themselves, nor do I want to make fun of them and laugh at them for making, what I think, is a stupid decision. It's just that I think that it's just that, a stupid decision. From what I know about suicidal people, a lot of them do it for a variety of reasons, spanning from "everybody hates me" to "I have nothing left in life, I'm an orphan, homeless, I'm a disgrace" to people like Amanda Todd who kill themselves for completely stupid reasons. If somebody wants to kill themselves for these reasons or any other reasons that they may be suicidal or depressed, then alright. I'm not going to hate them for it, nor am I going to start giving them all my attention because I feel pity for them. I feel more pity for them at the fact that they are not strong enough to continue on than that they are depressed because a few things are going wrong with their life. I won't support them, I'll tell them to tie their shoes and buckle their belt.

As for depression that stems from bullying, I do indeed think that bullying should stop, but I know that it won't, that it never will. It's just human nature, all animals have "bullying" in their lives, and we are no exception, we are just as barbaric as animals, no matter how modern we are.

Alright, whatever, this thread is going to get nowhere fast, we're going to sit here and go back and forth over how I and 9V think that suicidal people are idiots and that you sympathize for them.

Anyways, why did your family members kill themselves? Just curious, if you don't mind. Also, why in the world would you want to kill yourself? I've never thought of any reason in the entire world as to why I would ever want to kill myself, so I curious as to why you do.

[Magnitude Zero]

Anyways, if I came off as a bit harsh, sorry. To clarify, I do not hate the people who kill themselves, nor do I want to make fun of them and laugh at them for making, what I think, is a stupid decision. It's just that I think that it's just that, a stupid decision. From what I know about suicidal people, a lot of them do it for a variety of reasons, spanning from "everybody hates me" to "I have nothing left in life, I'm an orphan, homeless, I'm a disgrace" to people like Amanda Todd who kill themselves for completely stupid reasons. If somebody wants to kill themselves for these reasons or any other reasons that they may be suicidal or depressed, then alright. I'm not going to hate them for it, nor am I going to start giving them all my attention because I feel pity for them. I feel more pity for them at the fact that they are not strong enough to continue on than that they are depressed because a few things are going wrong with their life. I won't support them, I'll tell them to tie their shoes and buckle their belt.

Thanks for the clarification. You call it a stupid decision, but in reality it's not much of a decision. There may be a point where they think "yes, I would rather die than live", but at that point they're so far gone that unless they get help immediately they feel like they don't have any choice. They don't want to die; it's like their depression becomes so great it overpowers their survival instinct. And like I said, you can't just go and say "get over it and move on". They would have done it long ago if that were an option.

As for depression that stems from bullying, I do indeed think that bullying should stop, but I know that it won't, that it never will. It's just human nature, all animals have "bullying" in their lives, and we are no exception, we are just as barbaric as animals, no matter how modern we are.

Agreed. One issue with bullying is that the bullies don't even know they're being dicks; or they do, just not to the extent that they realize they're being bullies and are seriously fucking with someone's life. In movies it's always portrayed as "yeah, I'ma be an asshole to this guy because fuck you", but often it's just "I'm gonna joke around with this guy a bit, he can take it." What they don't realize is their idea of joking is different from the bullied.

Think back to your elementary school days. Was there any one or two kids that everyone else just liked to pick on? I remember this one guy, Kyle. Throughout 4th-6th grade he got a lot of shit because he smelled bad and didn't have a lot of friends. I joined in on it. I feel really bad about it this day. I know for a fact that I made a decent-sized impact on his life for the worse. And I didn't realize what I was doing at the time. For some people, this behavior extends into highschool and only gets harsher.

Anyways, why did your family members kill themselves? Just curious, if you don't mind. Also, why in the world would you want to kill yourself? I've never thought of any reason in the entire world as to why I would ever want to kill myself, so I curious as to why you do.

One of my cousins was gay and his immediate family wasn't okay with it - still isn't to this day, in fact. When he was 16 or 17 he ran away to a state with legalized gay marriage. A few years later he killed himself.

My uncle had been kind of unstable since his teen years. He divorced his wife who went on to remarry and have children. One day he just kinda snapped, shot his ex-wife and her two children (both in their early teens iirc) and then himself. They all died. I believe this was four or five years ago. I remember my aunt randomly walking into my house one day, which was weird because I didn't really see her too often. I said hi, she glanced at me and kept walking to my mom's office downstairs. I don't remember what happened next, but the following 1-2 years was really hard on my family.

As for my other cousin I don't really know what drove him over the edge. He always seemed like a happy, carefree guy. He was the son of my aforementioned aunt and his suicide happened about a year afterward. My aunt now sends cryptic emails to everyone, has her house bugged because she threatened Obama or something, and is convinced that the laces on one of her shirts are tire marks from when she got hit by a car (which never happened).

As for myself... like I said, no one wants to kill themselves. I certainly don't. I wish I could tell you where my depression comes from, but I can't. Because I don't know. It's very frustrating. I imagine you're thinking to yourself "well if nothing's wrong then stop being depressed!"



I know. I know how stupid and pointless it is, and knowing that just makes it worse. That is why, sometimes, I think about how nice it would be to just fall asleep somewhere and not wake up. Because it takes so much fucking energy to power through this bullshit apathy, self-loathing, and intense, stabbing sadness that I feel for absolutely no fucking reason. But I do anyway. Sometimes I need a little help. No matter what great things I know I have in my life, sometimes I'm totally blind to it. That's where "everybody hates me, everything sucks" comes from. But I have friends that I know I can talk to about anything I'm feeling, and they'll convince me to keep going. I don't know where I would be right now if they weren't there for me when I needed it.

Now imagine someone goes through that but doesn't have anyone to pick him up when he's down. When he asks questions like "Why bother?" he has no one to answer "because I care." That is why people kill themselves. They're treading water in this ocean of hurt and pain with no rescue boat in sight, and decide they'd be better off taking a dive. That is why I'm so adamant that you need to have empathy towards people who consider/commit suicide. They're not cowards, they're not attention whores, they're regular people like you and me who got a little lost and need help finding their way back.

[itroitnyah]

Hm, your family is pretty crazy man. I'm sorry for your loss.

You know what? That's another thing that really bugs me, when people loath and hate themselves for no reason. Snap out of it man, you already said you don't know why so there must not be a reason.

Also, the people who get lost and just need help getting back, so they decide to kill themselves? That's pretty stupid, how they can't seem to just continue on, to let their emotions tell them to kill themselves. Like I said, I'll just tell them to tie their shoes and buckle their belt. Since we're going through the analogy of being lost, I'll agree that being lost sucks, but being lost also means discovering new things. It means going where nobody has ever gone before, becoming an adventurer to your own domain, seeing things nobody else has seen before. It means not conforming to societies rules, being who and what you want to be. And if they don't want to go exploring, then they can sit and wait for a group of explorers to come and find them and continue adventuring, because I guarantee that the group of adventurers to come along would be that person's friends.

[Alycs]

You know what? That's another thing that really bugs me, when people loath and hate themselves for no reason. Snap out of it man, you already said you don't know why so there must not be a reason.

Okay, I told myself I wasn't going to get involved here, but I want to show you something really quickly before you start making people mad.



That is an MRI scan of someone who has been diagnosed as clinically depressed and someone who isn't. Depression is a psychological condition just like schizophrenia, ADHD, synthesia, and the like. That is why there is medicine to treat it. It is not someone someone can shove off, because it is a dysfunction of certain glands (in particular the ones producing endorphines) that literally "make" you feel like absolute shit every moment of your life.

Imagine the most terrible moment of your life, the saddest you've ever been. At that moment, you are likely feeling approximately the level of pain someone with depression has every day of their life. It is not them doing it to themselves, it is a literal medical condition.

So please, just keep that in mind. You can't just "shrug off" depression, and trying to tell someone to do so really makes you sound like a giant ass, even if you don't mean to. I know that it is REALLY hard to understand what depressed people must be feeling if you have never been depressed, but please just try; a lot of them really want to feel better, but don't know how, because (no offense intended) people usually share your opinion, and just tell them to "buck up".

Thanks

[Magnitude Zero]

I'm sorry, you're repeating yourself and any response I make will be me doing the same. This clearly isn't going to get us anywhere.

I'd love to snap out of it, but I can't. It's frustrating. I don't know how else to explain it. And this is not the venting thread.

Yes, letting your emotions get the better of you is stupid. The idea of not wanting to live being more powerful than not wanting to die is stupid. But it happens. I'd love for it to not.

At risk of sounding like one of those "woe is me" people you hate, it's very hard to describe depression to someone who's never experienced it because it makes zero sense. It's more than just an extended period of sadness. It's exhausting and hard to shake and it doesn't need a reason to be there. Here's a fantastic explanation by Hyperbole and a Half.

I really like your exploration analogy though. I do try to stay optimistic, and I try to treat everything as a learning experience. It's hard sometimes, but like I said, I've got some great friends.

[itroitnyah]

Hm, yeah. So I guess the fight isn't really to stop bullying, it should really be a fight to find the gene or DNA that causes depression and find a way to fix it so that people like you don't just go through random moments of depression

[Nine Volt]

It's not a gene or strand of DNA, it's a mental condition.

[itroitnyah]

But it's there because of a gene or part of DNA that you inherited from your parents, or somebody down the line. I'm fairly certain that it's a medical condition that appears because of a malfunction with one of your DNA, something is different about your DNA that causes the glands to malfunction. I'm not quite sure you understand that DNA and genes are what cause mental conditions, 9V

[Magnitude Zero]

Depression is already treated with medication and therapy. It's generally pretty successful, but difficult. Even if you can convince someone to get help (which is the hard part), it's a long, hard road to being "cured". And yes, it's a mental condition - chemical imbalances and shit, no DNA.

Multiple things can cause mental conditions. Not everything is genetic.

[Nine Volt]

But it's there because of a gene or part of DNA that you inherited from your parents, or somebody down the line. I'm fairly certain that it's a medical condition that appears because of a malfunction with one of your DNA, something is different about your DNA that causes the glands to malfunction. I'm not quite sure you understand that DNA and genes are what cause mental conditions, 9V

Um, no. This isn't mental retardation we're talking about; mental conditions are not always due to genetic deformations/mutations.

[itroitnyah]

True, sometimes conditions can be caused by the surrounding environment, but I'm taking biology right now, studying DNA and genetics, and based on what the teacher has been teaching, mental conditions and other medical conditions (such as cancers) are and can be hereditary based on which allele is dominant and recessive. So even if your parents don't possess depression, you still can because you ended up getting both the recessive alleles, making you depressed.

However, medical conditions are often causes of DNA, chromosome, or gene malfunctions (all of which are essentially DNA of type) because of either too much DNA, not enough, messed up DNA, chromosomes that either have an extra sister chromatid or no sister chromatic at all, or something else. And if you want more proof, you can read this article, and it'll explain some stuff about DNA and genetics. And if that still isn't enough proof, then I can ask my biology teacher on Monday when I go back to school. Until then, I'm still thoroughly convinced that we can find an actual cure for depression if we can find a way to fix the part of the DNA that causes the glands to malfunction. Of course, we don't know nearly enough about DNA and genetics and chromosomes just quite yet, so we still have a long ways to go, but we'll get there eventually.

[Magnitude Zero]

I guess I stand corrected, however I don't think we will find a distinct "cure" for depression anytime soon. Until then, we can take steps to prevent depression from other sources, i.e. bullying, and continue to treat with therapy and medication.

[Nine Volt]

Depression is not a gene. It can't be dominant or recessive. True, damaged or otherwise 'unusual' (for lack of a better term) genes can cause chemical imbalances that can then cause depression, but depression itself is not a gene, much like cancer is not a gene. I see what you're saying, but again, not all mental conditions are genetic. If your teacher is telling you that then he/she's just wrong.

[ph00tbag]

Also, the people who get lost and just need help getting back, so they decide to kill themselves? That's pretty stupid, how they can't seem to just continue on, to let their emotions tell them to kill themselves. Like I said, I'll just tell them to tie their shoes and buckle their belt. Since we're going through the analogy of being lost, I'll agree that being lost sucks, but being lost also means discovering new things. It means going where nobody has ever gone before, becoming an adventurer to your own domain, seeing things nobody else has seen before. It means not conforming to societies rules, being who and what you want to be. And if they don't want to go exploring, then they can sit and wait for a group of explorers to come and find them and continue adventuring, because I guarantee that the group of adventurers to come along would be that person's friends.

Maybe you've been convinced by other posts in this thread, but I just want to give you my perspective on this.

The term, "depression" suffers from an association with emotion, which really does not do justice to the nature of the condition. You have an ability, as a normally functioning human being, to compartmentalize and subsequently ignore the things that make you not want to go to work, or eat dinner, or go visit your friends. You can tell yourself, "but I stand to gain things from doing this stuff," and you can convince yourself to do it. There's probably a term for this faculty, but I don't know what it is. Suffice to say, someone suffering from depression lacks this faculty as much as Bethany Hamilton lacks a left arm. They quite literally lack the ability to make themselves happy. And there are days when it's pretty much an Olympian feat just to talk to someone who can convince them not to put an end to it.

So telling someone who's suffering from depression that they're being selfish when they talk about wanting to kill themselves is inconsiderate on the order of telling a double amputee to stop whining when they ask you to hand them their prosthetics.

[itroitnyah]

Depression is not a gene. It can't be dominant or recessive. True, damaged or otherwise 'unusual' (for lack of a better term) genes can cause chemical imbalances that can then cause depression, but depression itself is not a gene, much like cancer is not a gene. I see what you're saying, but again, not all mental conditions are genetic. If your teacher is telling you that then he/she's just wrong.

Bigglesworth has already told us that depression is caused by a malfunction of some glands in your brain/head. How else would these genes malfunction other than problems with the person's DNA, chromosomes or genes (to clarify, genes are distinct sequences of nucleotides on the DNA, so when people say "you look like your dad" it means that you have the similar sequence of nucleotides somewhere on your DNA that your dad does, that makes you look like your dad)?

[v.lossity]

True, sometimes conditions can be caused by the surrounding environment, but I'm taking biology right now, studying DNA and genetics, and based on what the teacher has been teaching,...... Of course, we don't know nearly enough about DNA and genetics and chromosomes just quite yet, so we still have a long ways to go, but we'll get there eventually.

You are oversimplifying it. A few things: Many traits, including those that cause hereditary diseases do not create a simple recessive/dominant situation. There are genes that have multiple different dominant alleles, some of which will mix, some of which wont. Also, some people can have diseases caused by their DNA (down syndrome is an example - trisomy 21) and others can be predisposed to diseases due to heredity (Cancer, heart disease). However, there can also be external factors involved. One individual could be predisposed to have cancer yet they may be less likely to get it than a person who is not predisposed who smokes 5 packs of cigarettes a day.
In addition, some mental disorders clearly have little to nothing to do with heredity. Look at PTSD. When you look at something like depression, it is a bit more complex. I have not studied human physiology beyond what my own college level biology courses touched on but here is what I know. The human nervous system and endocrine system have certain jobs they have to carry out. Signals need to be sent, glands need to produce and distribute hormones and other chemicals. Scientists have decided that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. Im not entirely convinced (people have a nasty habit of assuming that co-incidence equals causation, which is completely untrue) but assuming it is true, this means that the chemicals are not being secreted or distributed. This could be caused by genetics. It could be caused by environmental conditions. Of the studies I have read, the only people who have come to a definitive conclusion on the matter appear to have serious conflicts of interest, so as far as I know, there is no trustworthy consensus on the matter.

Whatever the case, there is evidence enough to show that yes, some diseases are purely genetic. Some are purely environmental. Some are a mix. But as far as depression goes, it is unclear. BUT, it is clear that a persons environment IS a factor. Hence, the campaign against bullying.

Also, as far as DNA repair goes, this really would have to be done in the prenatal phase. Imagine trying to fix 100000000000 chromatids one by one. Not very realistic.