Dipping my hooves into the shallow end here...

[Kyro]

(WARNING: TEXT WALL INCOMING)
Greetings, fellow bronies. I've been debating whether or not to post this as a reply to a similar topic, but decided against mooching off of someone else's thread. Whelp, here goes.

I've been listening to a variety of electronic music for a while (chiptune, DnB, house, dubstep, IDM, you name it) and have developed a deep, unhealthy affinity for it. However, my experience with playing/making my own music is...slim. I know next to nothing about music theory, any software (with the exception of some fiddling in Audacity and some research into a few others), etc. Having been recently exposed to the glory of MLP:FiM by a friend, I've discovered quite a deal of "brony music" which I've taken a liking to, and am growing ever so envious of.

I've been motivated to start making electronic music in the past during my TF2 phase, drawing inspiration from artists like SYRSA, but every time I told myself that I'd download some software and experiment, the vast amount of knowledge which I was (and still am) utterly clueless about scared me off. For somebody like me who knows zilch about making music, it's an intimidating obstacle to even get the ball rolling. I tried to learn an instrument over this last summer to tap into my musical side, but even that proved to be more difficult to learn than I anticipated, and I regretfully gave up. However, this can probably be attributed in part to the fact that I was trying to start from square one alone.

Recently, my envy - and also curiosity - have gotten the better of me again. After listening to a variety of brony artists for hours at a time, I've begun to try to feel the music - attempting to break the music down into its individual sounds, then piecing the parts together one-by-one as they're introduced, analyzing how they complement each other, trying to understand what the artist had in mind and how they might have been inspired to construct the song in the way they did, etc. I've noticed that every little sound and choice in timing makes a difference; making electronic music is vastly more complicated than throwing together a pile of cool wobs, wiggles and whatnot. Of course, this is only helpful to a certain extent, but as of right now it's the best way for me to acquire some semblance of familiarity with the music.

Anyway, time to cut to the chase. What's the best place for a complete novice to start? What prior knowledge should I have before attempting to make my own music? Are there any tutorials, videos or programs that would be particularly helpful to me? Should I experiment right away with some simple beats, or should I wait until I'm not just a baby banging on a xylophone? As for which style of music I hope to dip my hooves into, it's hard to limit myself to just one style. I absolutely love the stuff cranked out by brony artists like Not A Clever Pony and General Mumble, if that's any help. I'm definitely more interested in learning electronic music than classical/orchestral.

Another thing to note is that while I have plenty of time and willpower to invest, money is another issue entirely.

I'd appreciate any and all feedback. Despite being a total neophyte, this is something that I'm feeling more and more passionate about, so any advice or encouragement that might get me started would be magnificent. I do have a Skype account, but I'd prefer to not bother anybody until I have at least a shred of a clue of what I'm doing (this is completely unrelated to shyness, of course).

~Regards, an apprehensive yet inspired brony.

[Mox]

Another thing to note is that while I have plenty of time and willpower to invest, money is another issue entirely.

There are many free resources available. If you want a free DAW (the main software your music is sequenced and produced in), I hear a few people get by with LMMS or Reaper. Some people here are going to tell you to pirate all your software. It's up to you.

What's the best place for a complete novice to start?

Everyone is going to answer this differently. So it'll be as helpful as the next to just post how I started. And where I recommend to my friends that they start.

My very first music tutorial was this one. While the producer is an amateur at times, the series covers sound design, mastering, and production all in one go. Reason is a great program to start in, rather than something like FL. FL is overwhelming to someone with little experience, and the readiness and availability of presets and loops makes being a noob and staying a noob way too easy.

Production and music theory are what you need to learn. A lot of people will tell you that you can get by just fine knowing no music theory. Um, while this is true to an extent, it will make it much more difficult. It's usually pretty easy to tell when someone started with no musical direction in mind. Both are their own sciences within themselves. I can help you with either if you want to hit me up.

What I really, really don't recommend you do is get FL Studio, use loops, or start torrenting a thousand VSTs. If you happened to find this helpful, you can always shoot me a message for more questions.

[X-Trav]

What I really, really don't recommend you do is get FL Studio, use loops, or start torrenting a thousand VSTs. If you happened to find this helpful, you can always shoot me a message for more questions.

Hey now, don't hate on DAWS. Kyro here said he was a fan of General Mumble, guess what he uses? Loops on the other hand are used all the time, the drum n bass genre slices drum loops all the time. Vocal samples can be loops. Go look up the Amen Break. Vsts are also a godsend for making music, try to make awesome dubstep without Massive or pitch correct without Melodyne, Newtone or some other pitch corrector.


To answer to you Kyro, if you can compose by ear you can get by without knowledge of music theory, but the process is a lot longer and tedious. You don't need to study to much to get far, intervals and chords are things I find essential if you don't know where to start.

What you should do however is choose a DAW you want to use and stick with it. Mox already listed some free ones you can use to get started. Another free one however, is Famitracker which is solely made for chip tunes. With your finicial situation these free thing can get you buy, but some of them are very limited in capabilities. A lot of the people here do download their software.

As far as tutorials; everything. Watch and read everything, youll always take something away from a tutorial. Secondly read the manual, it's written for a reason. And when the time comes you get a DAW try everything, mess with every knob, and push every button.

The best piece of advice I can give you overall is;

Make music, and don't stop. Even if you hate it, save everything, submit it for feedback. Just make music and don't stop.

[Mox]

DAWS. Kyro here said he was a fan of General Mumble, guess what he uses? Loops on the other hand are used all the time, the drum n bass genre slices drum loops all the time. Vocal samples can be loops. Go look up the Amen Break. Vsts are also a godsend for making music, try to make awesome dubstep without Massive or pitch correct without Melodyne, Newtone or some other pitch corrector.

What? I can't hate on DAWs, we all use them...
You can do awesome things with FL. I know some big producers who rock it. It's just very newcomer-friendly. Extremely so, I've seen way too many kids try to get into it, slip and fall on all the handy presets and loops. Loops are great, just don't rely on them.
Um, I also use the amen, Massive, and Melodyne. I never said they were bad o:

[bartekko]

The Easiest program to learn is MAGIX music maker, but this doesn't mean it's the best one: It's good for your first 3-4 tracks, after what you'll start noticing that you are limited.

For the friendliness: Some people Find Ableton Live very hard to learn, with all it's views, and stacks, and some other things, while I can't figure the hell outta FL studio, with it's pattern nonsense. It's a personal thing.

So I recommend getting the basics of midi and VST-ing in MAGIX music maker, but then download demo versions of FL studio and Ableton live, (or reason/cubase/whatever is less manestream), and make your choice, not rejecting anything just by it's name.

Kyro here said he was a fan of General Mumble, guess what he uses?

I'm a fan of Deadmau5, he uses FL's, I hate 'em, simple as that. I'm a fan of Makkon's (who isn't?), And I don't use reason (or was it cubase?). I'm a fan of Aussie's, and... Yeah, I use Ableton Live, but I didn't know of his DAW preferences when choosing my own.

[Icky]

What? I can't hate on DAWs, we all use them...
You can do awesome things with FL. I know some big producers who rock it. It's just very newcomer-friendly. Extremely so, I've seen way too many kids try to get into it, slip and fall on all the handy presets and loops. Loops are great, just don't rely on them.
Um, I also use the amen, Massive, and Melodyne. I never said they were bad o:

FL is probably the easiest DAW to learn, altough that's just my opinion.
I actually started out using presets, loops and samples for everything. I slowly learned how to program synths aswell, by messing with some of the presets that came with Z3ta+. They're actually great when you're starting out, you can focus on things like creating a cool sounding melody, or mastering your tracks. programming synths is very hard and frustrating to learn, and most beginners will get pwnd by synths.
I'm not saying you should use presets and loops for everything, but as a stepping stone why not?

[Mox]

I'm a fan of Deadmau5, he uses FL's, I hate 'em, simple as that. I'm a fan of Makkon's (who isn't?), And I don't use reason (or was it cubase?). I'm a fan of Aussie's, and... Yeah, I use Ableton Live, but I didn't know of his DAW preferences when choosing my own.

This.
Except deadmau5 uses Live. DAW choice is nowhere near as important as your synth and sample choices.

FL is probably the easiest DAW to learn, altough that's just my opinion. I'm not saying you should use presets and loops for everything, but as a stepping stone why not?

I guess it depends on the person. I think Live is the easiest, because everything is contained in the window right there. In FL, the mixer is a pop-up, and your views can change.
And sure, drum loops are great. But there are also like, bass loops. Chord progression loops. By that point, you might as well just drop a completed song into FL and say you made it.

[Interrobang Pie]

I guess it depends on the person.

Yes. I picked up on Famitracker quite quickly, while the rest of you find it confusing. This isn't that confusing once you know what everything does...

That's another important thing, I guess. The first steps into music are always the hardest. But, if you persevere, you'll eventually hit a breakthrough.

[bartekko]

This.
Except deadmau5 uses Live. DAW choice is nowhere near as important as your synth and sample choices.

http://www.image-line.com/documents/pow ... e=deadmau5
http://jessebrede.com/wordpress/2008/05 ... au5-using/

I must keep on derpin'

EDIT: http://www.producerville.com/faqs/what- ... make-beats
he uses everything, apparently

Yes. I picked up on Famitracker quite quickly, while the rest of you find it confusing. This isn't that confusing once you know what everything does...

I don't find Famitracker confusing, just over-limiting

[MichaelA]

What? I can't hate on DAWs, we all use them...
You can do awesome things with FL. I know some big producers who rock it. It's just very newcomer-friendly. Extremely so, I've seen way too many kids try to get into it, slip and fall on all the handy presets and loops. Loops are great, just don't rely on them.
Um, I also use the amen, Massive, and Melodyne. I never said they were bad o:

FL is probably the easiest DAW to learn, altough that's just my opinion.
I actually started out using presets, loops and samples for everything. I slowly learned how to program synths aswell, by messing with some of the presets that came with Z3ta+. They're actually great when you're starting out, you can focus on things like creating a cool sounding melody, or mastering your tracks. programming synths is very hard and frustrating to learn, and most beginners will get pwnd by synths.
I'm not saying you should use presets and loops for everything, but as a stepping stone why not?

Pretty much what KoR said, though I don't think FL is the easiest to learn, there's so many windows, and noobs get confused at first.

Also, everyone is bad at music at first. Everyone. I was, your favorite producers/artists were. You can't pick up a DAW and be all amazing. Also, I think FL, Ableton, and Cubase can all do the same exact things, they just approach them differently. Sure, maybe one has some thing that the other can't do, but generally you can create the same sound out of all of them one way or another. It all comes down to learning the programs that's the hardest.
Also, a tip, DO NOT give up. I can not tell you how much I've wanted to stop music because I wasn't good enough. Hell, sometimes I still think that way. But you have to think, music takes practice, and your musical abilities only get better as you practice!
The best way to learn(in my opinion), is Youtube. I learned 90% of what I know about my DAW and music techniques through youtube, don't underestimate it. Google can also help.

On terms of DAWS, LMMS is a great free one! Foozogz and Circuitfry uses it, and they have some great music! Also, it doesn't look much different from FL Studio, so I don't think you would have much trouble switching over. There's also plenty of tutorials on LMMS. I've never used it personally, but I've heard great things!

[Kyro]

Wow. Some quick, solid responses here. You fellas are great.

From what I can see, there's no general consensus on which programs are the best to start out with. Would it be preferable to try one first and play around, or download a few to find one that suits me the best? I feel like the latter would be overwhelming, but I don't want to end up with one program which limits my choices or teaches me bad habits like Mox warned.

But, I'm getting ahead of myself; I've come to the conclusion that I can probably make my life infinitely easier by researching some music theory and the like first (at the very least some fundamental hoopla). I'm not sure just how much I need to know and what would be useful to me, though. I assume that it's a gradual process which I'll steadily unravel over time, but I don't want to jump in without rudimentary knowledge. I've seen chords and intervals mentioned so far. I'm sure this is something that YouTube and the like can assist me with, but if anypony knows any particular links or has some juicy tidbits to share, that would simplify the process for me greatly.

Once again, thanks to all of you. The readiness of the community to help a nooblet like myself makes the whole shebang a tad less stressful.

[Lethaargic]

I've been listening to a variety of electronic music for a while (chiptune, DnB, house, dubstep, IDM, you name it) and have developed a deep, unhealthy affinity for it. However, my experience with playing/making my own music is...slim. I know next to nothing about music theory, any software (with the exception of some fiddling in Audacity and some research into a few others)

Should I experiment right away with some simple beats, or should I wait until I'm not just a baby banging on a xylophone?

Definitely start writing straight away, for me I watched countless tutorials but only after some hands on practice did I really comprehend what was going on.

Would it be preferable to try one first and play around, or download a few to find one that suits me the best?

You should be able to get free demos of just about any DAW. try out a few demos and see which set up feels best for you.

[Tiaaaaa]

I'm still new to music making so I can't offer a whole lot of advice other than learning some basics of music theory really helped me. But as far as not wanting to bother other people on Skype until you're better goes, don't even worry about it. There's a newcomers chat specifically for those of us new to the community (and, assumedly, music as well).

[Kyro]

Definitely start writing straight away, for me I watched countless tutorials but only after some hands on practice did I really comprehend what was going on.

Diving right in would be a bit easier if I knew a thing about music, but I'll see what I can do with some free software.

I'm still new to music making so I can't offer a whole lot of advice other than learning some basics of music theory really helped me.

I've checked out a few instructional guides on music theory and I'm finding it very hard to sort what's relevant and what isn't. There's just such a vast quantity of information, much of which seems to cater more towards classical music. The guides which are made exclusively for electronic music tend to assume that I have prior knowledge of many terms which baffle me...An excess of knowledge can't hurt, but it makes the learning process that much more stressful.

But as far as not wanting to bother other people on Skype until you're better goes, don't even worry about it. There's a newcomers chat specifically for those of us new to the community (and, assumedly, music as well).

Whelp, that's reassuring. Just curious, how many of you started out with little-to-no musical experience? It would be a bit discouraging/degrading for me to join the chat as a noob among noobs, though I suppose everyone starts somewhere.


Also, to address some things I missed in my others posts...How much of the composing process is experimentation, and how much is actually being able to translate what you have in your head onto paper? I expect that it would be very difficult to make a track sound exactly as intended, especially when I'm only beginning. I'm also curious about how much of the sound is actually produced manually through trial and error rather than premade sounds. A lot of tutorials which I've checked out make frequent use of samples and the like. I assume that it would be tempting to rely on these a lot as a novice composer, though I'd prefer to avoid using too much work that isn't my own. -sigh-

~ My regards again, Kyro

[Stars In Autumn]

In terms of experimentation vs head translation, it varies for me, as I'm sure it does for most. A lot of the time I play random melodies and things on a keyboard until I find something I like. Other times I can hear how I want stuff in my head, and more or less can translate that into a song. It's usually experimentation though, for me.

[Tiaaaaa]

Whelp, that's reassuring. Just curious, how many of you started out with little-to-no musical experience? It would be a bit discouraging/degrading for me to join the chat as a noob among noobs, though I suppose everyone starts somewhere.

Well, I took piano lessons as a child, but I quit so long ago that I'm all but starting from scratch. But I honestly wouldn't worry about your skill too much in that regard. It's an easier way to get in contact with people and it's easier to ask questions and get answers quickly in an IRC or on skype than on the forums. If you're worried about asking newb questions then I wouldn't be. I'm still asking them.

[Interrobang Pie]

Just curious, how many of you started out with little-to-no musical experience?

Myself. Took me two years to get to where I am now.

[Kyro]

In terms of experimentation vs head translation, it varies for me, as I'm sure it does for most. A lot of the time I play random melodies and things on a keyboard until I find something I like. Other times I can hear how I want stuff in my head, and more or less can translate that into a song. It's usually experimentation though, for me.

Ah, yes, on the topic of keyboards...It's apparent that many people own some sort of MIDI keyboard to experiment with chords and melodies. On the other hand, some can get by without one, and it's been mentioned that they may not be useful to somebody who doesn't play the piano. Is this a tool that I should strongly consider if I decide to pursue electronic music, or is it more of a luxury?

Well, I took piano lessons as a child, but I quit so long ago that I'm all but starting from scratch. But I honestly wouldn't worry about your skill too much in that regard. It's an easier way to get in contact with people and it's easier to ask questions and get answers quickly in an IRC or on skype than on the forums. If you're worried about asking newb questions then I wouldn't be. I'm still asking them.

I may cave to the temptation. There are just too many questions that I don't want to spew all at once here, and it would probably be constructive to discuss these questions directly with others. How can I get it on these chats?

[bartekko]

How can I get it on these chats?

Ask for it, links are above, between celestia radio and user control panel

[Mox]

Ah, yes, on the topic of keyboards...It's apparent that many people own some sort of MIDI keyboard to experiment with chords and melodies. On the other hand, some can get by without one, and it's been mentioned that they may not be useful to somebody who doesn't play the piano. Is this a tool that I should strongly consider if I decide to pursue electronic music, or is it more of a luxury?

Depends.
I work by music theory and chord progressions. My melodies and riffs are easier to program and sequence in. I do have a keyboard right next to me, and I mess around on it if I'm really strapped for inspiration, but for the majority of my work, it's much easier to pencil in notes. Seems tedious, but when you do it all day, drawing in your notes becomes streamlined and way faster.

But if you don't quite write music by the books and pick out your chords by ear, absolutely a keyboard will help. There's always a "piano roll," which is a mini-keyboard inside your software you can click to play notes on, so owning a physical keyboard could be considered a luxury either way. One of my favorite electronic producers of all time wrote his entire first album without a keyboard.

[Kragt]

Hey, not sure how relevant this will be, especially since this guy uses FL, but he does take you through a good bit of the process of him making music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlFA_bmtVjU

Heres one of his vids, but you can see some things for ideas as well as how a song looks completed in a music program.

Check out his other stuff if you end up being interested.

Again I could be off base with what you want or actually need so if anyone thinks I should not have linked that let me know. XD

Edit: Definately learn some basics about chords, and intervals. And also what defines a key might help a tiny bit. XD

Fun tip: If you have 2 similar instruments, most often they sound better if they are further apart. To get 2 instruments playing the near each other they need to be different instruments. This applies loads more to classical than to electronic, as in electronic the result is a muddy sound when 2 instruments play closely together. Maybe look up how to use an EQ would be better advice. XD

[Kyro]

words

I see. So would it be preferable to do some fiddling in a program before deciding whether or not a keyboard would be beneficial?

link

Mmmm, yes, I love seeing stuff step-by-step like this. Really helps to see exactly how the process goes with an example.

Thanks for the theory advice and instrument tip as well. I feel like I've been learning a lot of music theory in my research which isn't quite necessary for what I want to accomplish...Then again, as long as it doesn't clutter my brain too much, I suppose that's not a bad thing.

It probably won't be long before I actually begin experimenting, so wish me luck.

[Kyro]

Well, it's been a while since I've given an update. I've been a bit busy during these past couple weeks but I've found time to cover some basic music theory. I still have a bit more to learn about some important topics, but I'm getting comfortable.

Since the holidays are approaching, I was wondering if it would be a smart investment to acquire a fairly inexpensive MIDI keyboard of some sort. Something to fiddle with and get some ideas flowing, but nothing too fancy. Would it be a good idea for me at my current stage?

Ah, and the forum-goer who offered to add me to some helpful Skype chats has yet to accept my request. Could somebody with access to some useful chats for newbies help me out? T'would be much appreciated.

[Freewave]

absolutely a good 49 or 61 key midi keyboard is like having a piano and a thousand different synths at your disposal (with additional software) and you can do so much and clean up any mistakes. Check out the midi keyboard thread in this forum for my recommedations there.

Keep in mind you can get by w/o one by just pencilling in on piano roll. It depends how you compose and think.

[Kyro]

What do you think is the cheapest that a 61-key could go far without sacrificing quality? My budget's a bit tight and I don't want to spend too much on something when I'm so lacking in experience, though if I can find a bargain on one, I'll consider it.

I'm not really looking for the keyboard-to-end-all-keyboards, just something which can help me get some melodies down and play with. I've read a lot of nice things about the smaller Akai Pro MPK Mini. Seems noob-friendly and won't empty my wallet. I know there are a few MPK Mini users on the forum - any confirmations on whether or not this is a good choice?

Also, a question for you Ableton connoisseurs: how steep's the learning curve? Of the various programs that I've done some research on, Ableton seems the most appealing, though I'll probably end up sampling a few when I get the chance.