Hey Music Peoples!

[Versilaryan]

I think the big point we're trying to make here is that categorizing music like that is a bad idea, amirite?

[Circuitfry]

This cannot be the place where we start deciding what needs classifications and what needs to be considered good music. It's too early, and such a discussion will make this thread too disorganized. Let's just calm down and let Sethisto pick the pre-listeners, if such a thing is going to happen.

[Mox]

Crazy idea: posting music on EqD should be more of a "spotlight" featuring the best of the best.

[Overkillius]

Crazy idea: posting music on EqD should be more of a "spotlight" featuring the best of the best.

NO...
well for several reasons.
1. what the best of the best is is subjective
2. whenever a popular artist like Alex S. comes out with a song it often gets it's own post anyway for some raisin.
3. I think music posts should be treated with the same care as fanfic posts. While a lot of crappy fics get shot down, all the fics that get posted up aren't really the best of the best.
4. plenty other reasons (sorry I hastily posted a big no without atleast sharing my in-depth thoughts)

[Mox]

1. what the best of the best is is subjective
2. whenever a popular artist like Alex S. comes out with a song it often gets it's own post anyway for some raisin.
3. I think music posts should be treated with the same care as fanfic posts. While a lot of crappy fics get shot down, all the fics that get posted up aren't really the best of the best.

Right. Number 1 and 2 are what we're trying to fix right now. What's "good" is subjective and should be left up to the community. The most popular songs (it's called a view counter) should be spotlighted. And two, lots of new artists who deserve attention would be introduced.

But like I said, it's a crazy idea.

[ArtAttack]

I do like the idea of artist spotlights, especially for those who aren't well known and deserve more attention than they get.

[Circuitfry]

I do like the idea of artist spotlights, especially for those who aren't well known and deserve more attention than they get.

EqD already does this hahaha

[ArtAttack]

I do like the idea of artist spotlights, especially for those who aren't well known and deserve more attention than they get.

EqD already does this hahaha

Really? Could I get a link, I've never seen one.

[Calamus_Dash]

Crazy idea: posting music on EqD should be more of a "spotlight" featuring the best of the best.

NO

Gotta agree with Overkillius here. EqD is, in my opinion, the best way for new artists to get recognized. I mean, I've posted two songs on youtube. The first one didn't get onto EqD and got a few hundred views (only got em because it was a remix of one of Glaze's songs ), whereas the second one got posted and got a couple thousand views and two dozen subscribers! Obviously neither of those figures are that impressive, but to me, they meant a lot and inspired me to write more. If EqD becomes really exclusive, it'll just serve even more to dissuade noobs like me from joining up

[bartekko]

Those are genres, I thought you meant kinds, dude. And there are more genres than that. House, indie rock, heck, let's go crazy. Reggae, speedcore, tribal, hymns, there are many many more forms to consider, here.

I may have a different approach to everything, but:
pop is the kind of music that is, well, popular, what now equals to ex. vocal house, or hip hop (whatever you may say, hip hop is becoming now a very popular genre, commercial, at least)

Rock is when you have a thing for your guitar, and having a real drummer (including: reggae, metal, death metal, blah)

Orchestral (on second thoughts, i meant "classical"), is where you have real instruments, and more real instruments, with a bit more real instruments, mainly strings, but also, when there is only one instrument, like piano, and one man does everything (including: everything made till 1900's).

Techno is where everything (or almost everything) is made using synths/drum machines/electronic effects (replace drum machines with sequencing simple beats in your DAW, since 2000), with less vocals than pop, (including electro, trance, speedcore, noisecore.

Dubstep? why bother asking?


P.S.: As I said, I have a different approach, that isn't coming back to what was said, but quickly analyzing it everytime i think of it. I don't use wikipedia's definitions, but I make up my own, that sometimes are not the exact ones wikipedia knows, and that is a big problem to everyone who lived with me for more than a week, including myself,


P.S.2. IMPORTANT: I know I just wrote it like a biggest ignorant ever, but it's not exactly like every person in the world can at first glance see (hear) difference between house and old-school electro like we do.


p.s. 3: Spoiler tags would make this whole discussion shorter

[Tiaaaaa]

Wall of text incoming. tl;dr: What other people said. Also you could just accept songs from specific artists, but that's a really strict policy.

Well, sorry, but I don't see there being any solution that wouldn't greatly increase Seth's workload. Sure, pre-listeners, requiring a few sentences about relation to pony, and reading listener comments are all excellent ideas, but all require a lot of time. And on top of that, deciding what is and isn't pony-related is very, very dangerous ground to tread. It's almost guaranteed that there will be ruffled feathers over it one way or another. But then again this is the internet so I guess that goes without saying.

Well, maybe there is an easy solution, but I'm not even sure it would be an option. You could always just institute a rule that only music by certain artists gets posted. Of course, exceptions could be made for exceptionally good songs (or exceptionally bad songs from those who have already been accepted) and there's no reason that new people couldn't be added if their music was considered good enough. This would greatly decrease the difficulty of sifting but it also creates its own set of problems. Namely, it makes getting featured on EqD a lot more difficult for new artists. It's probably a more strict policy than anyone is looking for, but I thought there might be something someone could take from it and make into a better idea.

Aside from that I don't really have anything to add that hasn't already been said. Pony-relation is relative and difficult to break down into a science, a lack of vocals/samples doesn't mean a song isn't pony-related, blah, blah, blah.

Also, thank you for taking the time out to ask for input, Seth. Keep being awesome.

Maybe we could implement a little teaching program!

If someone doesn't get into EqD, guide them to someone who has agreed to help out anyone who wants it. Then, that person can act as a teacher and give advice on how to improve!

For example, someone might write a classical piece, not get in and then they're advised to come see me, where I will tell them to add more clusters how to improve!

Sorry, I know this is back-tracking and completely off-topic, but I love this idea. Although, I don't see any reason why you would have to be rejected from EqD in order to sign up for it (though that might be a good indicator of if you need to). The tutor of the week is a wonderful idea, but getting some hands on tutoring could really help some people out, I think (myself included, hopefully).

[Mox]

Seth really doesn't want to do prelistners. Instead of begging to be one and pressuring him into doing it, why don't we just come up with guidelines like he asked?

At least give him something to post on the Submit page.

So far in the thread, we've said that:
- There is no way to determine quality of music
- Pony songs should feature samples, lyrics, or remix songs from the show
- ?
- ????

[Tiaaaaa]

- Pony songs should feature samples, lyrics, or remix songs from the show

Sorry if I'm being nit-picky, because I know some people have said this, but it's the exact opposite of what others have been saying. Personally I would say that a songs relation of pony is a muddier issue than the quality because people know what they like/don't like to hear regardless of technical knowledge. Although that might just be my opinion. I'll be the first to admit that I'm ridiculously lenient when it comes to songs relation to ponies.

[Circuitfry]

That's besides the point, Bartekko (don't even answer why you're grouping Reggae with rock, okay?) we can't group songs like that. It's too narrow of vision. We need to be open-minded, remember?

[Mox]

Sorry if I'm being nit-picky, because I know some people have said this, but it's the exact opposite of what others have been saying. Personally I would say that a songs relation of pony is a muddier issue than the quality because people know what they like/don't like to hear regardless of technical knowledge. Although that might just be my opinion. I'll be the first to admit that I'm ridiculously lenient when it comes to songs relation to ponies.

Right, I tried to think of a way to explain how you can make a really hot pony track that isn't obviously pony. But I couldn't think of how to put it in words. Hench, the question marks.

[Circuitfry]

Wall of text incoming. tl;dr: What other people said. Also you could just accept songs from specific artists, but that's a really strict policy.

First off, no.

Well, maybe there is an easy solution, but I'm not even sure it would be an option. You could always just institute a rule that only music by certain artists gets posted.

No. It's unfair.

Sure, pre-listeners, requiring a few sentences about relation to pony, and reading listener comments are all excellent ideas, but all require a lot of time. And on top of that, deciding what is and isn't pony-related is very, very dangerous ground to tread. It's almost guaranteed that there will be ruffled feathers over it one way or another.

That's why we need pre-listeners. This music-posting job takes a lot of time that should go to pre-listeners. There's a ridiculous amount of music out there that needs attention. And there are already ruffled feathers about over what is pony-related in the music Sethisto posts, that's why he's here, friend.

[Calamus_Dash]

snip

I actually think a combination of both ideas would work. Maybe EqD should have a list of artists that make only pony music (or at least, agree to ONLY send pony music) and be more lenient in accepting songs that aren't remixes of stuff from the show/packed with samples from these artists. The whole "that's too exclusive" thing could be subverted by ALSO allowing things from non "syndicated" artists, as long as they're clearly pony related. I guess they could then apply to join the list or something
This kind of works in relation to the "new artists getting into pony music" thing, because it makes sense IMO for people to start by remixing stuff, and then later move on to originals.

tl;dr- There should be a list of artists that have agreed to ONLY send in pony music, and they get a higher chance of getting originals posted (as in, EqD accepts that their songs are, in fact, pony related, and not just fishing for views) as well as open submissions for anyone else, who should post more directly related stuff (remixes, samples) until they're accepted as actual brony artists.
inb4 the tl;dr is too long

[Circuitfry]

That doesn't even remotely make sense. Not everyone starts by remixing stuff and moving on to the originals (that makes no sense). My first compositions were originals that were designed to play along to scenes of the show. The aim was narration. Does that mean that I can't be featured?

Seth really doesn't want to do prelistners. Instead of begging to be one and pressuring him into doing it, why don't we just come up with guidelines like he asked?

At least give him something to post on the Submit page.

So far in the thread, we've said that:
- There is no way to determine quality of music
- Pony songs should feature samples, lyrics, or remix songs from the show
- ?
- ????

Ho snap I just let you slip by. Yes, we should do that! We should make threads to determine these things and start discussing, try to reach conclusions together and form the guidelines.

[PiercingSight]

I'd love to volunteer to be a pre-listener. I'm open to all kinds of music, and I hope I'm a good critic. Just a question, should it be a vote system with best 2/3, or will the listeners be assigned songs and their individual judgement decides it's fate?

[Overkillius]

Considering how dangerous it is to decide what is pony related and what is not, I don't think there is a perfect way to handle this.

Still I just think that there should be other people to handle what goes onto a music post... Preferably a group of people with good discretion to fairly decide what is good for the site or not. Obviously this is easier said than done...

(Please ignore the part below this text if you think that I am getting unreasonable)

but I'd trust Makkon to be able to atleast get together competent people to take this task up, but even then there are some problems with the Idea.

[Circuitfry]

Now look what you've done! You've turned all of the zombie pre-listener requesters to attack Makkon! hahaha

[Calamus_Dash]

That doesn't even remotely make sense. Not everyone starts by remixing stuff and moving on to the originals (that makes no sense). My first compositions were originals that were designed to play along to scenes of the show. The aim was narration. Does that mean that I can't be featured?

simmer down, brony :/ I'm not saying you shouldn't be featured if you make original songs.
the point I was trying to make was that the best filter to separate "pony songs that aren't directly related to stuff in the show" from "songs that have pony added to the title" would be to classify artists into, for lack of a better word, "syndicated" bronies, as in, those who have established in the past that they make pony music, and previously unknown bronies whose songs could go into either group.
If they included a description of how the song is pony inspired like somebody said earlier, then they would get added to the list, and their stuff would get featured. If they don't have anything to back up their song except "I promise I wrote this with ponies in mind" then maybe more consideration should be taken.
Also, your examples of originals would, in my mind, fit quite handily into the "obviously pony related" category if they correspond directly with the show. I was referring more to songs like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfpF6ZbfZzM which are awesome, but not, at first glance, pony related (aside from the title and the background obviously)

[2clop]

Like most of the posters, I don't really feel comfortable with the idea of making some sort of checklist or firm standard about "what is and isn't pony." I listen to a number of pony related songs that have no lyrics or samples, but would not at all feel the same to me if I listened to them in a non-pony related context. That's why I like the idea of including a short written portion about how the song is related to the show or fandom. There's some pieces out there that are blatantly pony and of course wouldn't need the additional description, but I would hate to have another "Lower the Moon" or (For the New Lunar Republic) not make the cut because it wasn't immediately recognized as pony enough. Having some sort of checklist about what is or isn't pony also seems to be systematically biased against classical music, or genres without lyrics that wouldn't benefit from sampling. That would be terribly short-sighted.
For example, while Beethoven's Eroica obviously doesn't have any lyrics or samples, it's impossible to listen to without thinking of Napoleon and the French Revolution. The song would be horribly mutilated if Beethoven felt it wasn't "French" enough and decided to, I don't know, add lyrics or something stupid like that.
So yeah. I'm not sure if I have one overarching theme I'm trying to get across, but it might be something like "Rejecting a piece due to a lack of technical skill or effort is legitimate, rejecting it due to pony-related considerations must only be done with greater thought and deliberation."

[Sethisto]

I like to give everyone somewhat of a shot. A lot of people send me a really awful first song that is turned down, a semi alright second one that gets thrown up, then amazing stuff after they build a small community from the hits, and have expectations tossed on their shoulders. I see it in pretty much all forms of media on eqd.

I tossed a few random gmail chat invites out from who I've seen a few times with gmail accounts. We can give it a shot!

[Stars In Autumn]

Yay, another long post.

So it's not fair to push out songs based on a list of criteria that must be met to make it pony. A lot of songs have become part of the fandom even though they TECHNICALLY have no samples nor are they remixes from the show. For the New Lunar Republic, A Waltz for Trixie, Twilight's Sonata, etc are pretty good examples. But of course there are those that create songs and then really do just slap pony on the front so they can get a few more hits or whatever.

How to determine the difference between the two? I have no honest answer, but my guess would be you'd have to look at the artist rather than the song. And you can't do it based on just a song or two. It'd have to be, like, a lot.

And in terms of quality, once again it's hard to say. There's a few songs I know for certain I'd outright refuse, but that's either because they're overly vulgar for the audience or because they're very long and repetitive (like, they're just chords played over and over).

So I honestly don't know how the pre-reader system works entirely. But music is a bit different. It's a bit more subjective. I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't let some of Dissonance's work through their filters simply because they don't like the... dissonance. But that's not really fair.

So this might be not a very practical idea but one thing you could do is have a large number of pre-listeners who pick the genres they like to listen to and then vote on all the songs of those genres that come in on whether they think it should be featured or not. So it's still, well, subjective, but if you have a dozen people out of a dozen who think that a song of their preferred genre should NOT be featured, then it's probably a good indication that it needs work... Then one of the listeners gets the happy job of informing the submitter that they need to work on the piece some more and maybe provide feedback? I dunno, it's not perfect, but it's better than one person being the sole reason why a song gets through or not.