Hey Music Peoples!

[Sethisto]

Hey guys, it's Seth again.

I got an email the other day saying you wanted me to stress a bit more quality control on EQD with music, and I agree.

A lot of this stuff (primarily the classical and techno) just isn't "pony" enough. I have been taking anything that sounds "good", and I admit, I slip up on a few.

There is also the issue of remixing other stuff and not really changing much.

I can't really add another set of people for pre-checking things, but I wouldn't mind if you guys shot some guidelines for us to follow on these. "Octavia's symphony #3434" is getting a little old, (and I send 50% of those straight to the moon!)

So what should we look out for? What makes a "good" remix?

[jubian]

Hey Seth,

My definition of a good remix is one that not necessarily changes the original in it's entirety, but one that adds character to an original. It should essentially distinguish itself from the original through a unique style.

As for the posting of non-pony songs, I draw the line at songs that have nothing to do with ponies, and just uses a pony title to get more views, which is really just a shameless plug. If it has ANY relevance to ponies, and upholds some sort of acceptable standard, then I reckon it's worthy of EQD.

Above all the aforementioned information, I definitely believe there should not be any filtering of content based on 'how good a song is', since that's very subjective. While there should be some basic guidelines, all genres should be loved and tolerated. However, I do believe you should introduce a 'music validation' committee, given that you alone cannot ensure all content that makes its way to the site is worthy of your viewers' time.

[Whitetail]

Honestly the best suggestion I can give you would be to add in pre-checkers for music similar that you do for fan-fiction, there's just so many different things involved and so many small things that could lead something from being pony-inspired to being fake pony. Needless to say just because something has pony sound samples in it or the like doesn't mean it's truly pony inspired, but on the same token just because it doesn't have pony sound samples or is a remix directly doesn't mean it's not pony inspired at all. When you find a track that is true in it's intentions it's fairly easy to hear it, any musician who puts their heart into the work should be able to at least recognize the "it" factor in the song, but you wouldn't want to get into a trap of disregarding anything that isn't explicitly an art of the dress remix the same way you wouldn't want to regard just anything with "Rarity" in the title.

It's a fairly complicated issue really.


If it's a remix I can tell you this,
To me the best remix takes the piece and swings it in some whole new direction of creative thinking - it could sound very similar to the original or have very little correlation period, but it should clearly be your own take on the source material - without the you factor in there it's just as bad as a "Remix" with no correlation to the original at all.

[ArtAttack]

What I really want to stop happening is people either just slamming vocal samples from the show over their original work, and people slamming ponies into the title or artwork of an original piece (example, octavia's symphony #3434, fluttershy dubstep, etc). I believe that to be posted on EqD, it should be obvious, without title or art, that the song is pony related. Whether that's through samples, custom singing, obvious themes from the show, or any other creative ways, this is, as I see it, the only way to go. Pre-listeners are a must, and posts can either be grouped by genre or by artist. Thank you for noticing the music community, though. It's a breath of fresh air

[Mox]

I think the real problem is music that doesn't feature samples from the show, lyrics about ponies, or a remix of one of the show songs.

A lot of us believe that you can make a good pony song that has no apparent pony relevance, but it's rare. I'm honestly not so convinced. You really need to have some kind of pony relevance.

And as for quality,... I think we should stop with all the influx of people basically just rendering midi files. It would solve a lot of problems to only feature videos that have already gathered quite a bit of attention, but many people rely on EqD for listeners to begin with. Prelisteners would really fix the issue, but I understand that it would complicate things.

Also, what ArtAttack said.

[Interrobang Pie]

That's a difficult question.

In simple terms, a remix is an altered version of an original song, I guess. But then, what about covers and songs+pony samples, are they remixes?

As for a good remix, I don't know. Some of what makes a good remix good may just be up to personal taste, but it would be hard to judge what is and what isn't good like that and remain unbiased. Yet, I can't think of any other way that doesn't require zero musical know-how.

I got nothing. g

[PinkieGuy]

Welcome back Seth.

Whilst I'm sure there will be others on the forums with more useful/comprehensive solutions to your question, the first step I would take would be distinguishing between Remix's and Original Pieces.

Especially as we get deeper into the season, there will be a lot more remixes that utilize elements of the show. As soon as we get a new official song (Pinkie's Smile being an exception due to the legal issues), I'd wager there will be a metric tonne of new remixes.

These are generally better to use on the site as they're intrinsically pony related, and if the remix is of decent quality, people at home will sing along. I'm not sure exactly how to guarantee quality of the remixes, other than "Does this sound at least semi-professional?"



Original pieces on the other hand are the type of things ArtAttack mentioned. Although they've been written based on influences of the show, a lot of them are not REALLY pony related in and of themselves.

Examples of Good Original Pieces are:
- Anything with lyrics, because lyrics tell a story.
- Anything that tries to tell a story with show clips.
- Stuff by Makkon.

Examples of Bad Original Pieces are:
- A plethora of Pony Dubstep pieces that just slap pony clips over straight up dubstep.
- Another Octavia suite
- Anything electronic I write.

I hope this helps.

[Dr_Dissonance]

Hmmm, this is a difficult subject to get right, because:

1) My ideas concern classical mainly and,
2) What makes a 'good' remix is up to interpretation.

A lot of this stuff (primarily the classical and techno) just isn't "pony" enough. I have been taking anything that sounds "good", and I admit, I slip up on a few.

This is probably the most difficult aspect of music to overcome. I, personally, have been inspired by ponies many a time. There's no samples from the show or arrangments of music from the show, but the piece was inspired by them. I don't think that taking anything out that was 'inspired' should be a solution, as most great music is 'inspired,' not directly remixed.
Classical or otherwise! I mean, "For the New Lunar Republic" has become pretty popular and that isn't really pony based if you're stricter on what is pony and what is not, right?

There is also the issue of remixing other stuff and not really changing much.

That is an easier issue to fix because it's obvious whether something is really different or not. There have been remixes that are too similar to the original, but it's apparent if you know the original.

I think the main things to double check are:

Quality: Even if it is a trance piece with ponies glued on top, it should at least be a well written piece. Same with classical, so many basic things get onto EqD that I figure could have been a lot better if more thought was put into them (not to sound elitist or anything)

Remixing the wrong way: There have been a number of pieces that actually remix or arrange from a completely different source than ponies. Some, such as the recent "A Simple Song in the Memory of Lyra" is actually an arrangment of a piece from "Rise of Nations" (forget whether 1 or 2). Some dubstep has literally been a commercial piece with pony samples put on it. Others have downrighted plagiarised certain songs. But they all got onto EqD, so maybe checking sources would be good.

Is it inspired, or more for views?: Probably the hardest to get right, there are some people who stick pony on the end in order to get more views. To some extent, this is obvious to someone with a decent knowledge of a specific genre, but this one is largely open to interpretation...it would also work better with pre-listeners, so not going to happen...

So there you go, I know all these suggestions require more work off you and I apologise, but those are my thoughts on the subject!

[PiercingSight]

Well, I've always wondered if it was possible to get a small group of listeners (with a wide genre palette) to do pre-checks like with the fanfics.

There really is no YES or NO to music, it's an art, and a very pure art. By that I mean, it can't be critiqued as much as something like a fanfic because there aren't really a set of rules as to what "sounds good" and what doesn't. So if you DO get a group of people together to prejudge, make sure they have a very open mind to different kinds of music, and also make sure that they won't throw out masterpieces or keep utter trash.

So, do we have any specific guidelines onto what's good or what's not? Not really, we can't put it in words if we DO have anything. So I'm afraid the best option would be to get pre-listeners, and only have them reject things that are OBVIOUSLY not good quality or not in good taste (or reposts). You could even do it yourself if you have the time to do so, since it shouldn't take too many pre-listeners.

Don't be too strict, there are no specific guidelines, remember. And there will also always be those who will be unhappy with how it is filtered, so no matter what you say in the end, they will be there.

Finally, if you go through with any kind of guidelines, rule setting, or filtering of music, make sure it's announced, and also make sure that rejected submitters know why.

Tred carefully with this Seth, it's easy to offend. In fact, you might not want to have a filter at all, but that will leave you with your current issue. So it's one issue or the other, take your pick. (lol guitar joke, but seriously)

And when it comes to remixes, make sure it is original and creative in it's style, and not almost the exact same thing as the original song with no flair added.

That's all I have to say, and none of it is 100% concrete.

[PiercingSight]

Also, pony relation is a very touchy subject. How you go about filtering it can be multiple ways, so be careful with that as well. Make sure it is at least "inspired" by ponies, not labelled with ponies.

All of the music I post is inspired by ponies and could easily be misinterpreted as just labelled. While some are the other way around.

For good measure, check the uploader comments.

[bartekko]

The "Ponyness" in most music of our community is the lyrics, I guess.

When there are none, only sources of knowledge about a song (apart the waveform itself) are the title, and album cover. And for that reason, such awesome songs like "For The New Lunar Republic" and "Waltz For Trixie" should not be considered "pony" music? Some say Yes, Some say No, it's a personal opinion, in which my is "separate techno, vocal, and orchestral apart"

I know that many songs remain untitled till the moment of publishing, (which leads to strange names, like "push buttons until it sounds pony enough"- quote from sci)

As for remixes, I think that remixes are good, when you listen to the original, then to the remix, and they both are different enough to be considered as separate works of art (orchestral versions are a totally different story), but still close enough we can hear the similarities between both, be it the melody, be it the lead synth, be it name.

As for the other things, I think that at least some musicians should have their own separate blog posts, where only their music and remixes is, kinda like fanfiction (I take no credit for the idea though)

[Aussie]

Pretty much what Piercing said.

Actually, just gonna throw an idea out here: How about some of the members here volunteer to be pre-listeners? A lot of us are incredibly open-minded, and know a good song when they hear it.

Just my two cents. :S

[MichaelA]

Well, it depends. I do agree there needs to be some sort of filter through music, there seems to be an increasing number of music posts lately.

Well, in my opinion, I think that you should accept every original, good or bad. Unless it's absolutely terrible, which in that case they shouldn't even be submitting. They're submitting to you to get their music out there. The people that listen to it usually give comments that help them improve on things and the artist usually relies on other people to know what they need to work on. That being said, if you reject some pieces because they're bad, then the artist may get upset, because their piece wasn't good enough to make it on the site. I don't know how to address this issue fully to be honest, so if anyone can give suggestions that would be great.

On the issue of having content that isn't "pony" enough, it really depends. Was the content inspired by the show? I think inspired content is definitely pony enough. A song does not need to have singing or sound samples from the show to make it a pony song. A lot of artists, myself included, make instrumental-only music that corresponds to a certain emotion a scene/character/event revokes. Saying this isn't pony enough would be let-down for us all, as we made it specifically with ponies in mind. However, if a song is a "troll" song, or something that is complete earrape, I do not think it should be accepted.

In the issue of remixing and not really changing things, these should definitely not be accepted. Nothing against the artists, but if it doesn't sound much different, then most likely little work was put in.

I honestly think the Octavia-type songs should be alright, just as long as it follows the guidelines. After all, the artist did work hard on the composition! I think it would be very ignorant to throw out a song or genre just because there is way too much of it.


As for guidelines to follow, I would like to suggest these:

*Keep it Pony-related

*No R34 songs(I'll admit, I've had one song, but the majority of people don't like R34, can change if necessary)

*If it is a remix, make sure that it does not sound too much like the original. Slowing down/speeding up the original track with drums over it is not a remix.

*People like different types of music, so keep in mind, if you don't accept a piece because you think it's bad, does not mean other people will hate it. I don't like much dubstep, but a lot of people do. I think it needs to pass a few peoples' ears first, like what you do with fan fictions first.


That's all I can think of at the moment, but I hope I've helped somewhat. Anyone can feel free to elaborate on what I just said.

[Kragt]

Well there goes my Wrath of Octavia duet piece! (The only one I was planning to do. XD)

My thoughts tho, is does this feel pony? Is there some aspect of it that feels ponyish, or feels like it captures the character(s) it's about.

If they do a basic rarity techno piece, does it feel prissy?

If its about pinkie pie, does it feel bouncy? Does it do unexpected things?

Is it oddly slow for a rainbow dash piece? Then it might be time to point it away.

If you can't figure out how it relates to the subject the song describes, consider having the artist try explaining it in a quick paragraph.

These are the kinds of questions I would ask if I wanted to take a hard look at a song to see if it was pony.

I have likely talked out of my flank enough for today, so until I am useful again. ^_^:;

Have a wonderful day everypony!

(Post Script: Basically, what everypony else is saying, you should be able to tell pretty easily whether a piece is pony or not. If you can find a way to do em, prereaders help.)

(PS2: I need to quit reading and just post this already. While I havn't done much yet, I do rely on EqD to get the views to help get critique of my work (and until I get 100+ subscribers I will likely still need that boost)... I read again and lost my train of thought.. *hits submit button* )

[Senator Myth]

I'll admit that I'm biased in this, but I don't want to see a creation of mentality that only works explicitly related to the show are acceptable, and those who aren't should be tossed aside.

It's just like Hooves said: there are some shitty songs that are technically more "pony" that you probably shouldn't include, while there are plenty of "non-pony" songs that are just incredible and should definitely be included. But these are, as he said, complicated and subjective issues.

I would really rather just have someone listen for things like, "Is this someone else's song with pony samples thrown over it, or a few Garageband Loops thrown together with absolutely no effort, or something just outright stolen?" That's what the pre-listeners should be for.

I think a lot of people are a bit peeved that fanfiction has an elaborate vetting process and integration into the very fabric of the site, while music doesn't have anything like that and just gets treated like all other kinds of media. I myself am a bit upset about this, although I certainly understand the difficulty in implementing such a system when the staff of Equestria Daily aren't really musicians. It's just that there's such an immense amount of music out there, and an extremely wonderful music community that is absolutely unprecedented in any fandom that it seems that we should get something of the status afforded to fanfiction.

At the very least, make a guidelines section for music in the Submission page. Something like "Do not submit music that is just your favorite song with pony samples thrown over it" or something like that. Coming up with a list of rules like that might be kinda difficult, but I think you can calibrate it so that you get less of the type of music that kind of sucks.

Still, I'd rather go with the pre-listeners route. Doesn't have to be as elaborate as the pre-readers, but just something would be better than nothing. Let the ears of musicians listen to the tracks to determine if they're shit or wonderful pieces of art, regardless of relative "pony-ness"! It'll save YOU the work, amirite?

--Myth

[PinkieGuy]

There really is no YES or NO to music, it's an art, and a very pure art. By that I mean, it can't be critiqued as much as something like a fanfic because there aren't really a set of rules as to what "sounds good" and what doesn't. So if you DO get a group of people together to prejudge, make sure they have a very open mind to different kinds of music, and also make sure that they won't throw out masterpieces or keep utter trash.

I don't entirely agree with this. In terms of appropriateness for mainpaging on EqD, there it's quite easy to critique a pair of songs in contrast to each other. I don't mean discrimination against genres of music, but instead on the sound quality of said music.

An example from the last toastbeard:

http://soundcloud.com/silvahound/silva-hound-moondrop/s-UrjRS#new-timed-comment-at-383692

http://toastbeard.comli.com/pony/a/ZIQ1 ... _(entry_24)_(ZIQ13).mp3

Now, i recognize that these are two different genres and one is a troll entry. Still, they're both pieces of music that could (arguably) be submitted to EqD). One is clearly of sufficient technical caliber, the other isn't.

[JackleApp]

Regarding Inspired-by music:

Less of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KMR7l4O ... ideo_title

More of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSZlAltkYoc

The difference: One is just a funk song with pony GIFS attached and a pony-related title
the other sets itself within the pony universe with lyrics that detail a story.

How this transfers over to other genres/music/whatever: Inspired-by music without lyrics or an explicitely defined story are barely pony songs at all. However, Lyrics don't make or break its credibility (See: For the New Lunar Republic). If you're listening to an inspired-by song just continually ask yourself "How is this pony related?".

Regarding Remixes of Originals:

Less of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDpewipq8DA

More of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t38DPnkD ... re=related

The difference?:
The first one instantly loses every single ounce of pony-relatedness by ditching the vocals. It becomes an 8-bit remix of Owl City's "Fireflies". The second one is a remix that retains all of the pony-relatedness (and in fact, adds some through the use of added samples). The key is to make it still feel like a pony song. Laying some pads or drums over the original song ruins the credibility of a remix as well (See: Many many remixes of "Flutterwonder")

Regarding "Pony" Songs:

People love to just sprinkle a bunch of samples over their songs and call it Ponymusic. You and your team at EqD are awesome people and I trust you can sift through what's a Pony Song, and what's a "Pony Song". If it's a pile of samples + a Pony related name, just axe that shit.

Hopefully (maybe) this was helpful. I dunno though. It sounded great in my head.

No offense was/is intended towards those that I listed in the "Less of this" portions of this post. They were merely for example purposes only.

[Dr_Dissonance]

That being said, if you reject some pieces because they're bad, then the artist may get upset, because their piece wasn't good enough to make it on the site. I don't know how to address this issue fully to be honest, so if anyone can give suggestions that would be great.

Maybe we could implement a little teaching program!

If someone doesn't get into EqD, guide them to someone who has agreed to help out anyone who wants it. Then, that person can act as a teacher and give advice on how to improve!

For example, someone might write a classical piece, not get in and then they're advised to come see me, where I will tell them to add more clusters how to improve!

[Overkillius]

I have to say the people I agree with most are Derpy Hooves, Dr. Dissonance, Senator Myth, and Jackle App.

Especially the part where the classical music needs to have more ink spilled on the page for clusters.

[Sethisto]

The "art" aspect is the part I struggle with on these. Octavias symphony #3944 could very well be someone's special interpretation on Octavia. I don't think anyone in the world can track down every classical song in existence and make sure its completely original though, and I don't think anyone can tell the person their song isn't octavia if they poured their heart and soul into it.

[Kragt]

>> Just to complicate the matter of inspired by ponies heres a fun little bit.

When I was writing my pinkamina song, it started with a blank name, and me wanting to do a sad fluttershy waltz. (I wanted this piece to be pony because I wanted to give back to the community that has basically dominated my musical tastes.) I realized it wasnt going to work like that, it was too sad, not waltzy enough, and just didnt feel fluttershy. She just didnt get sad enough for me to do that. So I went on to think about what could I do that would make it stand out as a piece and work with the bits it has. (1/3rd of the song was written at this point.) So I shifted my focus onto making it a sad diamond dogs piece (WIP name was "Day of no Diamonds"). I got about 3/4ths the way finished with it and I realized the core of the song was not gruff enough to convey the spirit of the diamond dogs. I could likely have made the case against that thought and said the sadness was meant to overpower it but I changed it to pinkamina as it had that sense of hard larbor (as I was told twice) and it had the despondency that felt pre-rainboom pinkamina-ish. I get down to just needing the climax to finish the song and I realize it fits perfectly with the story from the ask pinkamina tumblr. I design the last 6 measure of the song and use an audio clip I felt was necessary to finish the mood. I design the slide show to help fit the story in my head. (I wanted to use images of what she was describing rather than her sitting there describing them.)

Anyway the main point is.

The song was 3/4 done (that 3/4 was really not changed at all after the shifts) before it had its final theme in place.

Was it still inspired by ponies?
I wanted it to be pony, but was it truely inspired by ponies?
If it didn't just happen to fit so well with that specific story... would it qualify as pony in its own right, or would it just be "Pony for the views"?

^^;; I apologize for likely not helping the matter at all. XD

Edit: Regarding the swarm of octavia songs. >> How would you compare this to lets say.. a swarm of fallout equestria fanfics? Is a disclaimer to say try not to do it all you do or is there some extra standard?

[PinkieGuy]

The "art" aspect is the part I struggle with on these. Octavias symphony #3944 could very well be someone's special interpretation on Octavia. I don't think anyone in the world can track down every classical song in existence and make sure its completely original though, and I don't think anyone can tell the person their song isn't octavia if they poured their heart and soul into it.

By the same token though, your pre-readers must reject Octavia x Scratch stories from time to time. The writers of those must have poured their hearts and souls into those stories (or 20 minutes on a rainy day). In that sense, it makes sense that there is a system to determine what music winds up on the site.

Again, i think this is drawing back to the Pre-listener dilemma.

[Interrobang Pie]

I'd love to add something more but I'd be echoing everyone else.

[Circuitfry]

I would love to be a pre-listener for Equestria Daily. That is, if you ever go for it.

Actually, I think that the most defining question you can ask yourself when listening to a song is this: When the artist wrote the song, was it about ponies and its culture, or was it mostly about the artist himself?

This is a question that's difficult to answer for someone with little experience. When you hear fluttershy dubstep, sure, that has pony in it, but is it supposed to be about ponies or is it supposed to be how the artist can make dubstep? What about an original song that uses ponies to express love and tolerance in a creative manner?

It's about the song's connection to the culture. Does the song embed itself snugly within our community? Does it immerse itself in ideals about the characters?

If a song can answer any of these questions or even a new one, and do it in a brilliantly creative manner, I think that it deserves a little attention and love. c:

[ArtAttack]

Volunteering as the obligatory dubstep-know-what-the-hell-he's-talking-about-er if we decide to do pre listeners.

As for the whole soul-no-soul thing, I think we as musicians can tell when someone's put a lot of work into it and when someone hasn't. Pre-listeners, especially ones from MLR, could do a lot simply by existing.