FL studio and it's pattern non-sense

[Chain_Algorithm]

I started out making music in a DAW with garageband. It's obvious limitations got and the fact that I don't own a mac lead me to Reason, which I have used ever since (with additional upgrades, refills, and expansions). The whole wiring system, analog simulation, sampling, midi sequencing, etc... it all makes sense. I love how I can see where everything goes and what paths each piece takes. Some people see it as a mess of wires, but to me it's a critical map.
Anyway, I heard so much about FL9 so i decided to get it even though the demo version made no sense when i played with it. Reason, GB, and other systems like the old iMovie, Cubase (for audio recording only) and "Lego Movie Maker" (when i was a little kid) all got me comfortable with the linear track model with stable control panels and menus. Sure it got large and sometimes very complex, but it made sense to me.
Then I get FL and I freak the hell out... where is the MIDI paths? How do i run the instruments? WHAT IS THIS PATTERN NONSENSE???? I ended up finding the piano roll system, but everything is so cluttered and window after window after window that i just can't grasp it. I know that people say "you do not choose the DAW, the DAW chooses you." That's all fine, I have mastered Reason and even though it can't do mastering for shit, I know enough about FL that I can utilize it's fidelity abilities for post-production. But what i want is this vast VST system. The only severe limitation to Reason is it's lack of external support. I can sample anything I want and i can make any sound with the parts available, but I wanna check out these cool pattern devices and weird generators out there. But how?

tl;dr: Can I skip past this pattern shit and make FL 9 work like Reason or GB??

[Makkon]

There should be a way that you can use FLstudio's VSTs in another sequencer, such as Ableton or Cubase. I'm interested in trying that out myself, there is some very nice content within FLstudio but I hate the program as a sequencer.

Does FLstudio install it's VSTs in a folder outside of the FLstudio directory? If so, I think you will have full use of them in other programs when you import them.

Let me actually try that...

[Aussie]

There should be a way that you can use FLstudio's VSTs in another sequencer, such as Ableton or Cubase.

Yeah you can. I tried out Poizone and stuff but then I uninstalled FLStudio.

[Chain_Algorithm]

Cubase makes no sense to me whatsoever. Maybe I should try ableton...

[Aussie]

Cubase makes no sense to me whatsoever. Maybe I should try ableton...

DO IT

I'm loving it so far and I really don't plan on giving it up. It's super duper simple for me, and unlike other DAWs I've tried, it has a huge built in tutorial, so it's easy and quick to get the hang of.

[Spirit]

Cubase makes no sense to me whatsoever. Maybe I should try ableton...

ABLETON IS AWESOME
Ive used FL9 and reason and i just find that Ableton is the DAW for me i find it so much easier to work with and i just now where stuff is and where to find what I need, although I do use a lot of VST plugins. right now im getting myself to grips with using Native Instruments Komplete
ever need any help with Ableton, dont hesitate to message me
although, try not to get rid of any DAWs you use and dont like, they can be really good for ReWire effects later on

[Makkon]

Agreed, move onto a new DAW but keep FLstudio around, it's has it's uses.

[PinkiePieSwear]

Aww, all I use is FL Studio =( You guys are making me want to try and pick up all these other DAWs, and I just know I'm gonna open them up and cry not knowing what the heck anything does!

[Pinkie Cake]

I started with reason but it's kinda a difficult daw for begginers and doesnt use VST's thats why I went further and used FL. But the interface was not acceptable for me, didnt understand a thing, even after the tutorials. And finaly Ableton Live came into my life even without the tutorials it was kinda easy to get around it, but after 1-2 tutorials I got the hang of it.

[NotACleverPony]

This is the way I transitioned:

From early 2004 to mid 2005 - FL Studio (v. 6) -> Reason (v.2.5) -> Ableton (v. 4)
I've been sticking with Ableton ever since. I'm at version 8. I've also worked with ProTools, Digital Performer, Cubase and Logic.

I knew absolutely nothing about music production when I touched FL - I was so happy to hear myself produce any sounds that I never even attempted to find the piano roll. My fling with FL lasted 3 weeks.

I switched to Reason and stayed with it for about 6-7 months. You DEFINITELY learn a lot about signal routing and patching oldschool hardware. I bought a huge manual to understand each module and it definitely payed off. I discovered the "proper" sequencing panel via Reason, while with FL I probably wouldn't know how to find it in its myriad of windows. By the way, if you think that's bad, try Logic or Digital Performer on a Mac one of these days - those things are like a Hydras, close 1 window, 2 more appear.

There were two main problems with using Reason 2.5 as a standalone.
- If you got tired of the sounds, you were pretty much screwed because Reason didn't integrate VSTs whether they're synths or effects (It's a closed system). I ended up feeling like I was producing the same sounds over and over again. Now, I wrote two full albums in Reason, and I seriously tried to push the modules as much as I could - the fact that Propellerhead wants to do everything in one software means they can only specialize on so many things, not to mention they're probably always looking at PC consumption. They have to.
- Because you're dependent on Propellerhead (the company) to update and finally give you some new things to try, you're in your own bubble till then. You'll hear about all these great new synths and samplers and programs but you won't be able to integrate ANY of them into your workflow.

I tried Live out of curiosity. I tried it in conjunction with a copy of the Korg Legacy Collection (4 oldschool Korg Synths in VSTs) and Native Instrument's Absynth. Made a few beats with Ableton's internal Drum module and I was sold.

There are no multiple windows with Ableton just two main panels. Best of all, the clip system seriously opened up my own work to mix and match stuff on the fly, without touching my main arrangement - thus helping me pre-select the absolutely best melodies I could produce. My mixes ceased to sound flat.

Now, of course letting go of Reason wasn't immediate. I was trading A Lot of equipment I knew very well - but there's something seriously refreshing about going to going to this page: http://www.kvraudio.com/plugin-ranks.php

and saying to myself "Wow, look at all that stuff I've got yet to try!"

Subtractor (subtractive synthesizer in Reason) used to be my bread and butter, but it will never sound like this: http://www.synapse-audio.com/dune.php [Click on the "Minus Seven / Cool House" demo]

SO
TLDR

-I empathize with wanting to try things outside of Reason. I think its a totally logical intuition.
-I didn't go back to FL for exactly the same issue. The windows and the crazy oldschool way of sequencing is a turn-off.
-Ableton was my choice. Or rather, it chose me (should you feel so mystical) - maybe just like its the wand that chooses the wizard in a those harry potter movies?
-In any case, I have a friend that's fairly pro-efficient in FL Studio (he uses it to write VG music), I'm seeing him tonight and I'll definitely ask him about it.

[Whitetail]

Yeah, I know a lot of people suggest FL but honestly it seems like a pain to work, very difficult to navigate.

I'm running Pro Tools and everything makes sense, but honestly it's like FL's opposite in that it's interface is so simple it gets quite messy when you start getting into songs with more then like 10 tracks:

Example:
http://www.deviantart.com/download/2119 ... 3i5uxe.jpg

[Chain_Algorithm]

Agreed, move onto a new DAW but keep FLstudio around, it's has it's uses.

oh nonono... i'm not giving up Reason... it's mah baby. I will keep FL for complete mix mastering. I have been rendering the tracks separately and mixing the wavs in FL. I would actually build my songs with ReWire, but i hate how the sequencer is controlled by FL and not Reason where all my stuff is. Hopefully Ableton will be nicer about that.
I just want to integrate the systems. I know ReWire works with Ableton and I am gonna see what I can do with that.

if you got tired of the sounds, you were pretty much screwed

I started with 4 and now am at 5. I don't know what was around at 2.5, but now there are so many options and everything seems to have infinite capabilities. I have been trying my hand at building massive controllable combinator set ups and manipulating samples on the nnxt. With the refills, i really haven't felt like I have reached a limit with it. Subtractor? ew, hate that thing. Maelstrom all the way!
But yeah, I will get Ableton as soon as I can get the cash.

it's interface is so simple it gets quite messy

Trust me, I love that kind of thing.
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/ ... 3kjn0i.jpg
Protools was another I was thinking of getting. Damn, now I can't decide!

[NotACleverPony]

@ Derpy
Man, that's hardcore that you're using PT. Audio school forced us to use it everyday, cause its the industry standard. It was hell to transition from v6.8/6.9 to v7, though. So many crazy bugs and interface issues.

I would use PT exclusively for audio engineering, mixing and synching things to video. But not for anything really creative. Doing MIDI in PT instead Live would be like performing heart surgery and randomly trading the scalpel for a nuclear warhead.

Metaphors aside, I can't argue with your results, Derpy. I remember the first time I listened to your tracks, I was convinced you used either Digital Performer or Logic.

@Chain
Now I wouldn't want to encourage any illegal activities. But if I did, I would tell you that you should "try" the software before you buy it. A sequencer is a big, important purchase.

[Chain_Algorithm]

Now I wouldn't want to encourage any illegal activities. But if I did, I would tell you that you should "try" the software before you buy it. A sequencer is a big, important purchase.

well where can i acquire said "demos"
i would like to try out PT and Ableton

[Whitetail]

Just a little note if you're going to use Pro Tools, you're going to want to pick up FXPansion too, I'm assuming you're working with VST plugins correct? Thing is, Pro Tools is limited to the use of RTAS plugins unless you get an adapter (that's where FXPansion comes into play).

Man, that's hardcore that you're using PT. Audio school forced us to use it everyday, cause its the industry standard. It was hell to transition from v6.8/6.9 to v7, though. So many crazy bugs and interface issues.

I would use PT exclusively for audio engineering, mixing and synching things to video. But not for anything really creative. Doing MIDI in PT instead Live would be like performing heart surgery and randomly trading the scalpel for a nuclear warhead.

Thanks haha, but honestly I likewise wouldn't suggest Pro Tools to anyone for creative work for a multitude of reasons like you said.

[NotACleverPony]

well where can i acquire said "demos"
i would like to try out PT and Ableton

Ableton? Torrent it, Filestube it, IsoHunt it, - I'm not a very good pirate (I'm done with those days, man.).

But I know The Great and Powerful Makkon here knows a thing or two about piracy. We kinda don't wanna link anything illegal here, but maybe if you PM him he can point you in the right direction.

As for PT, well, that's the thing, of all the software sequencers, you CANT run it standalone (as far as I know). You need to actually buy their physical hardware. The hardware works as the liscence key that opens up PT.

No hardware, no PT.

I think there's a "light" version floating around, if memory serves.

@Derpy

Assuming you bought the hardware, what did you get to run PT?

I have a big 'ole DIGI002

[Whitetail]

I run Pro Tools LE 8 with the Mbox 2 Mini

Though you don't need the hardware to run Pro Tools if you get M-powered, that's the native build of Pro Tools and requires no hardware. Thing is the hardware serves as a nice audio digital converter and direct input for instruments and the difference in price was only like $60 or so so I just went ahead and got it with the hardware, also note that with the hardware it takes the load off your comp's sound card so it can run on worse computers (of course it runs fairly clunkily on old comps, but it at least won't give you any sort of mud in the sound).

[Aussie]

Are you guys loco in the coco? There's a trial on the official website, silly!
http://www.ableton.com/download-live-trial

Or just torrent it. Much easier.

[Chain_Algorithm]

I run Pro Tools LE 8 with the Mbox 2 Mini

orly. see, I have an M-Audio Fastrack Pro and it had a protools based driver.

[Mundius]

Huh, so am I the only person who uses just FL for music? Go, FL. Woo-hoo.

I mean that I don't have any other DAWs installed, and I don't consider Adobe Audition (which I use for looping purposes) as a DAW.

[General Mumble]

Aww, all I use is FL Studio =( You guys are making me want to try and pick up all these other DAWs, and I just know I'm gonna open them up and cry not knowing what the heck anything does!

This.

It took me long enough to get good at FL Studio. I want to get to use other things, but I'd just open it, try to make something, become frustrated and uninspired then runaway.

What's the best to use, Ableton by the looks of it?

[Mundius]

Aww, all I use is FL Studio =( You guys are making me want to try and pick up all these other DAWs, and I just know I'm gonna open them up and cry not knowing what the heck anything does!

This.

It took me long enough to get good at FL Studio. I want to get to use other things, but I'd just open it, try to make something, become frustrated and uninspired then runaway.

What's the best to use, Ableton by the looks of it?

I take my statement back.

So, it seems that Ableton is the DAW of choice. Wonderful. Let me get good at making music first, then I'll experiment with other DAWs.

[Icky]

Just use whatever you prefer.
There is no DAW that gives you the best results, a lot of people (not claiming anyone of you does) seem to think that FL can't produce the same level of quality as for example Cubase or Logic which is definitely not true.
Just to make a point, these tracks were all made with FL studio.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FRaPDH7K00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuBZ86Es1uY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf2wbRWb9xI

So basically just use what works for you.

[ArtAttack]

Huh. FL has always been the easiest for me. I've tried a bit of Ableton, and I'll probably end up switching eventually, but FL is just so darn intuitive.

[Stars In Autumn]

I like FL studio because my playlist editor gets to look like this:


The colors!