Sub-Bass Help

[DrummerBot]

Alright. I've been having this problem for a while now and I need to fix it.

My sub-bass is really weak. It's nothing compared to other people's sub-basses (brony or not). I do have a subwoofer, but my songs' sub-basses aren't powerful enough to "shake" it. I've looked at a lot of tutorials and stuff but nothing has worked so far. EQing, VSTs, etc. I can't get a powerful sub-bass without causing it to muffle my other synths and stuff. To create the sub-bass in most of my songs, I'm using NI Massive, using 2 OSC, both "sin", 1 octave apart from each other.

https://soundcloud.com/drummerbot/blank-flanks-drummerbot

Here is one of my songs. Like I said, weak sub-bass. Can anyone help me?

NOTE: I know there are a lot of other problems with the song such as weak snare and such, but I've learned how to fix those

EDIT
I have also EQed my other synths and stuff to make room for the sub-bass. I've tried using the Multiband Dynamics plugin in Ableton to boost the low ends. Making the sub-bass louder will just muk up all of the other sounds.

Any tips and tricks will be much appreciated! Thx

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Sine Waves + minor compression (very minor) + low end boost in plugin (eq tab in massive etc) and maybe some unisono (boost to 2 or 3).

[bartekko]

remove one sine and make it louder

[XXDarkShadow79XX]

XBass4000. Slap one of these an your master, fiddle with the settings a bit, (I recommend setting the frequency to 40 - 50hz and turning down the soft enhance, saturation, and volume of saturation) and you should have some massive (Nopunintended) sub bass. You can grab it for free by signing up for Prime Plugins.

[bartekko]

XBass4000. Slap one of these an your master, fiddle with the settings a bit, (I recommend setting the frequency to 40 - 50hz and turning down the soft enhance, saturation, and volume of saturation) and you should have some massive (Nopunintended) sub bass. You can grab it for free by signing up for Prime Plugins.

NO

[XXDarkShadow79XX]

XBass4000. Slap one of these an your master, fiddle with the settings a bit, (I recommend setting the frequency to 40 - 50hz and turning down the soft enhance, saturation, and volume of saturation) and you should have some massive (Nopunintended) sub bass. You can grab it for free by signing up for Prime Plugins.

NO

Actually, yes. Here is the sub without XBass 4000:

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/m3qkz5rytv0ctn ... 0XBass.wav

And here it is with:

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/wfqcd3mm4ai1z7 ... 0XBass.wav

You can hear the second clip is clearly better. Now XBass 4000 does kind of mask/weaken the highs, so I'd put a harmonic exciter on the master too.

[Raddons]

Remove that second sine wave, one should suffice. They'll interfere with each other that close to the low end.

edit: Okay bartekko wow rude saying what I was saying before me wow

[itroitnyah]

Music isn't really about the "powerful shaking bass" really, but alright.

Just use a 3xosc all sine waves with the coarse detune down -24, use some compression or a limiter to increase the gain without clipping, maybe put a bass boost on the channel with the subbass on it. Also put a Parametric EQ unit on it and cut off everything above 100Hz with a lowpass filter. And then on pretty much every other instrument excluding the drums, use a PEQ to cut off everything below 100Hz with a high pass filter. That should definitely clean up your subbass a bit. A lot of the bass also comes from mastering when you can increase the total volume and then hear the bass more.

[bartekko]

Actually, yes. Here is the sub without XBass 4000:

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/m3qkz5rytv0ctn ... 0XBass.wav

And here it is with:

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/wfqcd3mm4ai1z7 ... 0XBass.wav

You can hear the second clip is clearly better. Now XBass 4000 does kind of mask/weaken the highs, so I'd put a harmonic exciter on the master too.

If i had a week i couldn't list all the reasons it is wrong.
First of all, we're talking only about the sub bass, and you're telling us to do something on the master. Second, you're telling us how to master and implying that Xbass 4000 will make our track sound inevitably better. (Sausage Fattener anyone?) and mastering is about someone else who is not you or at least you after not hearing the mix for a long time.

Second, that doesn't sound really better. I actually don't even hear any sub in this, except for having more distortion in the second one.

Third, "xbass 4000 makes anything that is not bass sound worse, so add something that adds distortion/warps highs and make it sound totes not how it did before" (yes, distortion. from wikipedia: Distortion is the alteration of the original shape (or other characteristic) of something" which means not only saturation but in fact any processing)

Fourth, if your sub sucked before, unless you make it not suck no post-processing fixing will make it good again.

Fifth, cba godbai


Now. OP clearly said that he uses two octaved sines. That makes the sub sound more liike a bass guitar, with more shape than a simple sub, but not really as deep as a raw sine wave. That may be desirable in some cases and it's artistic license to decide which one is appriopriate.
I would suggest modulating the volume of the sub to give it more movement and show that the sub is there. If it's just a static sound slapped on, you don't really notice the sub.
I, personally don't think that the sub is weak. I think it's just right.

Sine Waves + minor compression (very minor) + low end boost in plugin (eq tab in massive etc) and maybe some unisono (boost to 2 or 3).

no compression is needed when there are no dynamics, and compressing low frequencies may end up causing unwanted distortions.
EQing? A Single harmonic? are you an idiot or smth?
Boosting EQ? are you an idiot or smth?
Unisono? on subbass? are you an idiot or smth?

[GumsOfGabby]

remove one sine and make it louder

^THIS^

XBass4000. Slap one of these an your master, fiddle with the settings a bit, (I recommend setting the frequency to 40 - 50hz and turning down the soft enhance, saturation, and volume of saturation) and you should have some massive (Nopunintended) sub bass. You can grab it for free by signing up for Prime Plugins.

NO

^THIS^

DO NOT put a bass booster on your master.

Try to mixdown/master your track so that if you solo the sub it peaks at -9dB (or -6dB if you want to push it!). That's the standard with commercial bass heavy tracks. Also, sidechain your sub to your kick and snare, so that you it frees up headroom when they hit and you can keep your sub loud and not clip. Also try compressing the shit out of your sub. Hard knee, very low threshold and highest ratio your compressor allows, 0ms attack, long release. You'll hear some distortion but that's nothing a quick EQ can't fix. Steep low pass curve set to where the harmonics are cut off, but while leaving the fundamental untouched. This will make sure you sub is hitting -6db (or whatever you set it to) constantly, and not going weak on some notes.

If you're doing all of this already, your sub may just be an octave too high. You want your sub to be hitting under ~80-100Hz (and above ~20Hz as the absolute minimum), or it won't be a sub and won't "shake" your subwoofer

[bartekko]

If you're doing all of this already, your sub may just be an octave too high. You want your sub to be hitting under ~80-100Hz (and above ~20Hz as the absolute minimum), or it won't be a sub and won't "shake" your subwoofer

anything below 35 Hz (the D two octaves below middle C) should not be used because it's too low for anyone to actually hear it, especially in club enviroment
20Hz may be the lowest possible frequency a human can hear, but that does not mean it is the lowest frequency musically important, because to hear 20Hz you'd have to take up all the headroom of the track, and that won't work, especially when your audience uses shitty speakers/headphones.
again, no compression on sub bass. ever

[GumsOfGabby]

(and above ~20Hz [b]as the absolute minimum[/b])

anything below 35 Hz (the D two octaves below middle C) should not be used because it's too low for anyone to actually hear it, especially in club enviroment
20Hz may be the lowest possible frequency a human can hear, but that does not mean it is the lowest frequency musically important, because to hear 20Hz you'd have to take up all the headroom of the track, and that won't work, especially when your audience uses shitty speakers/headphones.

I knew I should've edited that. I reckon you can go as low as A0 (28ish) while still being able to hear sub fine. But isn't sub meant to be more felt than heard (especially on big club PA systems)? It's not just much tonality, anything below 80Hz is hard to distinguish tonally. And if people have shitty headphones/laptop speakers they'll not going to hear it anyway, whether it's 20 or 80 Hz.

again, no compression on sub bass. ever

As for compression, I've been doing it since before I can remember because Logitec speakers. Just realised how dumb I am now /)_-

[Lavender_Harmony]

I don't think anyone has said the obvious yet, which is the most overlooked thing.

Make sure you cut out all sub frequencies from everything else aside from your kick. Low cut all your pads, synths, bass sounds and even check tings like hihats and cymbals, because of the way they get recorded, low frequency rumble is common. Having too much going on in the low end, even stuff like that you don't notice can utterly demolish the sub in your track. Proper isolation in the mastering stage with Mid/Side EQ is ideal too for having a really strong sub.

[bartekko]

I knew I should've edited that. I reckon you can go as low as A1 (28ish) while still being able to hear sub fine. But isn't sub meant to be more felt than heard (especially on big club PA systems)? It's not just much tonality, anything below 80Hz is hard to distinguish tonally. And if people have shitty headphones/laptop speakers they'll not going to hear it anyway, whether it's 20 or 80 Hz.

NO

as noted in the dance music manual, even large club systems can't effectively reproduce frequencies below 40 Hz. 35 Hz is the absolute minimum your music should go. (HMage's What stays what goes, an extremely dark and powerful track is in the key of D, which is roughly 38 Hz.)

[bartekko]

I don't think anyone has said the obvious yet, which is the most overlooked thing.

And then on pretty much every other instrument excluding the drums, use a PEQ to cut off everything below 100Hz with a high pass filter. That should definitely clean up your subbass a bit.

Pretty easy to overlook among my walls of text

[Lavender_Harmony]

Ah. I'm an idiot. Or possibly smth. Whatever that means :'D

[itroitnyah]

Lol Lav

[Nine Volt]

Without reading what anyone else said:

EQ out everything in the sub range from everything else 'cept the kick (round 100hz cutoff should be good). EQ out everything below 30hz for every instrument, including the sub (Reason's EQ has a 30hz cut option, which is why I'm using an arbitrary number). Use a single sine wave and boost around 50hz for more bass. Low pass the sub at 100hz just because the sub should never get above that. Next, sidechain the sub to the kick (very short release and attack w/ -infinity threshold) and bring up the input gain on the compressor until you get a really powerful sound. Maybe add a compressor for actual compression.

[HMage]

I believe you're speaking about 'the drop'.

Why I think it sounds so underwhelming:

• Your bass's low frequencies are several times louder than the kick's. You lose bassy 'oomph' because of that.
  
• Your kick isn't tuned to the root of the song key — bass and kick are fighting for low frequencies and this produces a dissonant clash. Try subtly sidechaining the bass to the kick till only one of the two are playing at the same time.
  
• Your limiter stole your transients. Ask it to return them. Or in cash equivalent.
  
• Sines below 100hz are naked, there's nothing else going on there and that sounds hollow. Try putting slightly detuned supersaws instead of sines and lowpassing them.
  
• Constantly playing low frequencies without pausing even for a millisecond greatly reduces perceived dynamics. Ever been on an earthquake? Ever been to a big club? Earthquake is constant lows, but clubs kick you in the face/stomach/body on every beat. Low frequency dynamics contribute to that a lot. Absence of sound, however short, is as important as it's presence.
  
• 250hz area seems to be a little deserted as well, kick or bass or both need harmonics there.

PS: If all else fails, try adding saxophone. Works wonders.

[HMage]

Also, your mix is almost completely mono.