Industry standard DAW?

[FadedSilhouette]

Ok I hope this is in the right place and if not then sorry lol but anyway. I want to get into music professionally and I've done some research and it looks to me like the industry standard DAWs right now are Logic and Pro Tools but I just wanna make sure that pro tools is the industry standard before I shell out $700. Can someone confirm this for me please, it would be greatly appreciated

[itroitnyah]

There isn't necessarily an industry standard, as all daws work the same, only difference being workflow and some plugins and hardware. Hell, if you could make some jamming beats with LMMS and get signed, that'd be your "industry standard".

But the biggest thing to be concerned about is workflow. FL Studio is known to be pretty messy, so if you're a neat freak I wouldn't recommend FL. But it's still a great daw, from my experience. Ableton and Reason are generally pointed to, from what I've heard, as the organized workflow, so if you want your space on your screen to be neat, get one of those. Reason's on more of a learning curve though, and doesn't really use 3rd part plugins, so you can't use NI Massive, but Reason does comes with its own vsts as well that are pretty good. Logic Pro is only for mac, so you can't get it if you're using a windows pc, so I don't know a whole lot about workflow in there, but Lavender would, I think she uses logic. Pro tools, I've never used, and I never really knew about it until just a few months ago, and even then it was just a name, so you'd have to look at reviews for that. It looks around the level of Ableton though. Cubase is another one that I'm not too familiar with, so you'd have to do research on that one, or somebody else will know about that one more.

But really, a lot of it is just workflow differences. So it's really up to opinion. Do some research around, look up reviews, videos, and decide which workflow appeals to you the most.

[the4thImpulse]

Ok I hope this is in the right place and if not then sorry lol but anyway. I want to get into music professionally and I've done some research and it looks to me like the industry standard DAWs right now are Logic and Pro Tools but I just wanna make sure that pro tools is the industry standard before I shell out $700. Can someone confirm this for me please, it would be greatly appreciated

Well pro tools is arguably the industry standard as it is found in the majority of recording studios. This does not mean its right for you. Before anyone could really suggest things we need to know more information..

What do you mean do music professionally?
What do you want to achieve? (record bands, produce music entirely electronically)
Budget?
Past experience with music?

[itroitnyah]

Well pro tools is arguably the industry standard as it is found in the majority of recording studios.

Well, when you put it like that, it is . I think Faded means, "what are all the professionals using?" Or, that's how I interpreted it.

Skrillex uses Ableton, if I remember correctly, Dodge and Fuski use Cubase, Dave from Boyinaband uses Reason (the majority of the time), Alex S uses Cubase if I remember correctly, and the last two aren't really signed, but you get the idea. A lot of the responses you're going to get, FadedSilhouette, are going to be something along the lines of "it's up to opinion"

[cyrricky]

and doesn't really use 3rd part plugins, so you can't use NI Massive, but reason comes with its own vsts that are just as good.

We can use third party plugins now

[Captain Ironhelm]

Pro-tools seems to be focused on live recording, and it's probably the best at it. Others seem to be more friendly with computer instruments.

[Pimps_McGee]

my professor's been recording for 30 something years back when they were using tape, and he uses Logic.
I kinda wish I had it because of it's EQ system, but i'm happy with ableton and mixcraft for now.

Kyoga just wondering, what are you studying in college? Is it an engineering degree (computer science included) or something more like a music technology course? I'm only wondering because I've been looking for a good coursework during college that covers audio engineering (and I mean designing software and hardware).

[the4thImpulse]

my professor's been recording for 30 something years back when they were using tape, and he uses Logic.
I kinda wish I had it because of it's EQ system, but i'm happy with ableton and mixcraft for now.

Kyoga just wondering, what are you studying in college? Is it an engineering degree (computer science included) or something more like a music technology course? I'm only wondering because I've been looking for a good coursework during college that covers audio engineering (and I mean designing software and hardware).

Desinging software would require computer sciences (I haven't heard of a music specific software design program), just straight coding. Designing hardware requires electronic engineering (not to sure that's what it is officially called), understanding schematics and how resistors/capacitors/transformers and current all work. Designing the physical hardware will take a lot more time and will require a lot more study.

[ChocolateChicken]

Hello. Experienced Pro Tools and Logic Pro user here. And I have some useful information for OP.

TL;DR Don't get Pro Tools. Waste of money and it's shit.

Yes, Pro Tools is the industry standard... and it's terrible.

Now let me explain. The only reasons that I can see why Pro Tools is the industry standard is because:
1. It is the only daw that can record in 32 bit.
2. it was the first industry standard.

I seriously have no other idea why it's so popular in commercial studios.

-It's pretty much guaranteed to crash at least once in every project you'll ever work on.
-It comes with almost no plugins, and the few that it comes with are very minimal and pathetic. There isn't even a frequency analyzer that comes with Pro Tools.
-It doesn't handle sound libraries or instruments well at all, especially when running multiple instances of said instruments.
-The mixer and arrangement are two separate windows that you cannot operate at the same time. You need dual monitors to effectively work with the mixer and arrangement.
- It's SHIT at MIDI
- MIDI and instrument tracks are two different things in Pro Tools, while in almost every other daw they are the same thing. Pro Tools is behind on modern software technology, it would seem.
-No "Export All Tracks" or "Export Track" functions anywhere. To do this in Pro Tools, you have to manually select each individual track, ONE AT A TIME. Then you have to consolidate it and then export it with every single track... MANUALLY.
-You can only view ONE plugin at a time. Seriously.
-Fuck Pro Tools.

Oh hey, I found you a picture of Pro Tools:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbfxe ... o4_500.png
^^^I got that from Lavender.^^^

Ableton, Cubase, FL Studio, Reaper, and Logic Pro are all a hell of a lot better than Pro Tools, not to mention the fact that they are significantly cheaper.

For a personal workstation, do not get Pro Tools, especially if that is your first ever daw. If you have a mac, I recommend Logic Pro, but any daw will be much better than SHIT Tools.

Alex S uses Cubase if I remember correctly...

No, he uses Ableton.

[cloudshovit]

what I don't get about having an industry standard is that DAWs don't/are not suppose to have a sound of their own. Nobody can say that a certain sound was recorded from a particular DAW. You can record in Audacity and nobody would be able to tell. The only thing that gives DAWs their own sound is sometimes their plugins. For example, some people say FL has this certain sound, but that is because a lot of people upload their stuff with the Fruity Limiter thats on the master bus when you use the start up template. BTW the Black Ops 2 OST was made on FL, but I'm not sure if that would count as an industry standard tho.

[ChocolateChicken]

what I don't get about having an industry standard is that DAWs don't/are not suppose to have a sound of their own. Nobody can say that a certain sound was recorded from a particular DAW. You can record in Audacity and nobody would be able to tell. The only thing that gives DAWs their own sound is sometimes their plugins. For example, some people say FL has this certain sound, but that is because a lot of people upload their stuff with the Fruity Limiter thats on the master bus when you use the start up template. BTW the Black Ops 2 OST was made on FL, but I'm not sure if that would count as an industry standard tho.

A DAW being the industry standard has nothing to do with what sounds it emulates. It all has to do with it's operational capabilities, workflow, and recording abilities. For example, Pro Tools can record in 32-bit, which no other program can do.

Many DAWs besides Pro Tools are used in the industry for producing, composing, mixing, ect, but that doesn't make them the industry standard.

[cloudshovit]

what I don't get about having an industry standard is that DAWs don't/are not suppose to have a sound of their own. Nobody can say that a certain sound was recorded from a particular DAW. You can record in Audacity and nobody would be able to tell. The only thing that gives DAWs their own sound is sometimes their plugins. For example, some people say FL has this certain sound, but that is because a lot of people upload their stuff with the Fruity Limiter thats on the master bus when you use the start up template. BTW the Black Ops 2 OST was made on FL, but I'm not sure if that would count as an industry standard tho.

A DAW being the industry standard has nothing to do with what sounds it emulates. It all has to do with it's operational capabilities, workflow, and recording abilities. For example, Pro Tools can record in 32-bit, which no other program can do.

Many DAWs besides Pro Tools are used in the industry for producing, composing, mixing, ect, but that doesn't make them the industry standard.

Never really said anything about emulation. I only got interested in PT because of Nine Inch Nail's earlier albums but the guy they hired who was supposed to be the expert on it, Charlie Clouser, actually uses Logic and I think Trent as well.

[Navron]

What DAW you get is entirely dependent on what kind of music you want to produce. There is no difference in export quality, and pretty much all of them can run both VSTs and live audio.

However, some DAWs are more suited to certain types of producers, so I'll name a few I'm familiar with, or heard enough of an opinion on to get an idea to base it on.

Pro Tools: Great for live audio. Bad for pretty much everything else. If you're looking into making electronic music, Pro Tools would be an unwise choice. If you're looking into working with multiple microphones (such as recording a live band), Pro Tools is generally the go-to DAW.

FL Studio: Cheaper than most other popular DAWs, and generally a good choice for the beginner-intermediate musician. It's very friendly for hosting VSTs, but like said above, it tends to get messy. Has a lot of great plugins. Downside to FL is working with live audio. It can be done, but often results in some headache. If you're looking to make strictly electronic music, this would be a good choice. If you're looking to work with a lot of audio, be prepared to start pulling out hair.

Cubase: Not as popular as the other DAWs, but I like to call this one a general, good, well-rounded DAW. The initially learning curve is a little steeper, however. VST support and live audio are both supported well, and it also comes with a few decent synths right off the bat, such as Padshop (Granular Synth), and Retrologue (Analogue Style Synth). Live audio is easily manipulated, and can be integrated with VSTs fairly easily. Downside, once again, is the learning curve, in addition to not having as impressive an array of plugins as FL or Ableton.

Ableton Live: The go-to choice for live performing, but can also be used like another DAW to produce. Audio and VST are both integrated well, and it also comes with a very impressive number of plugins. A good choice if you're planning on playing your songs live a different way than recorded. Downsides to Ableton Live revolve around production. The program is built for live performing, so many of the effects plugins are geared towards that, and you have to find a way to avoid the live stuff while producing, if that makes sense.

Those 4 choices seem to be the most popular around the industry, but there's many others I haven't the slightest clue about. Logic seems to be a very popular choice as well, but it's only supported for Mac.

[Dabrenn]

I just want to step in here to throw in my weight with Ableton, as I do every time one of these threads comes up.

I love Abelton. Its workflow is perfect for me and it allows me to experiment with more options and "stumble upon" interesting concepts that no other DAW lets me do.

I'd definitely recommend checking it, I won't go into much detail since that's already been covered for the most part in this thread. Good luck!

[Foxtrot89]

After a quick skim through the thread, I'll share my two cents. Industry standard just means it's the standard for the industry. ie: If you bounce around between 3-4 studios in your endeavors, you can take your project files with you and not have to worry about compatibility. Or you can send your project files to other studios and your files will be compatible. This is only really possible if you're using the software that studios are also using. That's it, really. Other than that, a DAW is all 100% personal choice. They're capable of just about the same thing, they just go about it in different ways. If you're going solo, you don't really have to worry about having "industry standard." Logic and Pro Tools seem to be the names I hear most. If you want industry standard, I'd probably go Logic if I had to choose.

[Lavender_Harmony]

Okay, I'll chip in here also.

Firstly, there is no industry standard, and you didn't really clarify which industry, live audio, studio production, mastering, etc.

At the moment, Cubase, Pro Tools, Logic and Ableton are the main tools used in studios. A select few are using FL Studio, mainly independant producers, with a big focus on using plugins, rather than audio. Sonar is rare these days, but you do find it in studios that run a low overhead.

Cubase is a great all rounder. It comes with a lot more in terms of plugins these days, and being the father of the VST format, compatibility is unparalleled. I personally dislike the MIDI editing capability, it seems very dated, but they may have addressed this in the newest version.

Pro Tools is great for working with audio, the project format lends itself to being very portable cross-hardware so you can compile session work into your productions easily, however that's where the good news ends. There are very few 3rd party plugins available for PT, as it uses its own arbitrary format RTAS, and the more recent revision AAX, but few have adopted either. Many have found that PT becomes horrendously unstable when using multiple plugins simultaniously, and thanks to Avid, it 's quickly becoming a dinosaur.

Logic is my DAW of choice and has been for over four years now. It is similar to Cubase in terms of workflow, however it has a much more streamlined approach to mixing. Not to mention the plugins it comes with are regarded as some of the best in the industry. It also comes with lots of very usable samples, loops and foley, around 50GB or so. It is one of the main scoring tools for film and television production for doing studio mockups for orchestra. It isn't the most popular for solo production, but it is fully competent. The only downside is that it uses its own plugin format, AU, but this is widely adopted, and there are only a handful of commercial plugins that do not support it.

Ableton I know very little about. It is praised for its workflow, and adaptability for live use, taking your studio productions onto the stage seamlessly. It lends itself well to being very 'hands on', making use of assignable macros across the whole program, and is supposed to be good for brainstorming ideas and evolving those into entire songs.

FL is one I know little about, despite it being the main DAW used by most of the community, people are rarely able to tell me about its functions because they themselves don't know how to use them. I dislike its dated, flashy interface, a lot of the workflow seems very arbitrary, and to get anything done that's more complex than your basic mixing practices, you need to know your way around prior, or your production will halt while you dust off the instruction manual. In its favour, it does have a lot of very praised instruments, however I would advise you invest in some decent mixing tools, as the in-built EQ and compressor are horrid.

So thats a summary of what I know from each. Some have lite versions, so if you can, try them for yourself. At the end of the day it doesn't matter which you pick, as long as you are dedicated to learning how to use it, how to overcome its pitfalls and quirks, and deliver that final mix at the end.

[Stars In Autumn]

FL is one I know little about, despite it being the main DAW used by most of the community, people are rarely able to tell me about its functions because they themselves don't know how to use them. I dislike its dated, flashy interface, a lot of the workflow seems very arbitrary, and to get anything done that's more complex than your basic mixing practices, you need to know your way around prior, or your production will halt while you dust off the instruction manual. In its favour, it does have a lot of very praised instruments, however I would advise you invest in some decent mixing tools, as the in-built EQ and compressor are horrid.

Out of curiousity, what makes the in built EQ and compressor horrid? The EQ is a 7 band parametric equalizer with LP, BP, HP, shelf, peak, and band stop band types. The compressor is a compressor/limiter with all the typical functionality of a compressor (up to 20:1 ratio, 1000 ms attack/release/attack sustain, built in sidechaining, and noise gate). I'm not selling the plugins, per se, just curious what makes them poor plugins compared to others.

[FadedSilhouette]

Well, after reading through all this (thanks for all the responses by the way, it's been really helpful) I've come to the conclusion that I'm not going to get Pro Tools, the main reason being that I don't exactly plan on recording bands any time soon.

Well pro tools is arguably the industry standard as it is found in the majority of recording studios. This does not mean its right for you. Before anyone could really suggest things we need to know more information..

What do you mean do music professionally?
What do you want to achieve? (record bands, produce music entirely electronically)
Budget?
Past experience with music?

Now to address this. Up until this point I have been an electronic music producer for hobby purposes only, no real intent on going much further than that. As of February I will have been producing for a year even though I only started posting my stuff online in the past month or so. Now, after realizing just how much I enjoy producing I want to get into it more seriously, improve more, make a name for myself and hopefully, make a living off my music one day. Now I know that's a huge goal to shoot for but that's kinda the point, in my opinion it's better to have one unreachable goal that I'm constantly striving for, bettering myself so that one day I will actually reach it, than having a thousand little goals that I already know I can achieve. (Hurray for random philosophy stuff?)

As for my past experience with music, my family has been really into music for many years. I started playing the drums when I was 6 and I know that doesn't help with electronic production much but being that both my brothers and my dad play guitar (younger brother on bass older acoustic and dad both) and my mom used to teach, but still plays, piano I'm not lacking any sources for learning to play any of those. My mom has actually been teaching me piano since I told them I was getting into music production and would eventually need a MIDI keyboard. All that being said, I'm not really planning on recording bands or anything like that. At this point I want to produce music entirely electronically but I'm also not going to close that door entirely either. If something comes up that makes me want to record live audio then I'd like to have that option kinda there.

Currently, I've been using FL Studio 10 which has been working fine, the piano roll on it is something I hope the DAW I end up choosing has, but I felt that if I'm going to do all that I want I would need to "upgrade" so to speak. From what I've read it seems that DAW selection is based almost completely off of personal preference but there are some obvious favored ones, being Logic, Cubase and Ableton. If I had a Mac I would go straight for Logic however I am on a PC with no plans of getting a Mac. Logic sounds like it's probably the best one but the sheer incompatability of a Mac with so many things would just drive me crazy, plus I haven't had many good experiences with Apple products in the past. So that leaves Cubase and Ableton. Cubase kinda has a plus one for me at the moment since I'm not going to be doing live performances any time soon and apparently Cubase comes with a plugin in that is equivalent to Melodyne or Auto Tune and being that I may put lyrics to my music (I already have a Blue Snowball for a mic so I don't need to worry about buying that fortuantely) that gives Cubase a little edge. However, since I have yet to see a demo version of Cubase anywhere I can't really compare the functionality of Ableton and Cubase accurately, being that both websites only say how awesome their product is. I just finished installing the Ableton demo so I will checking that out shortly. I currently have $2000 Canadian to spend on music stuff and $700 of that is going towards an M-Audio Axiom Pro 61 Key USB MIDI Keyboard, so that leaves $1300 for a DAW, VST's and any kind of education for that DAW that I can afford with the remaining money. If I can't afford the education I will save more and just experiment and watch youtube tutorials until I can afford it.

I hope that was enough information but if anyone needs more I can share more. I really appreciate all the help I'm receiving so far, thank you all for your input and any more input anyone would like to give. ( I say that while watching even more input flow in lol this place is so awesome)

[K3WRO]

FL is one I know little about, despite it being the main DAW used by most of the community, people are rarely able to tell me about its functions because they themselves don't know how to use them. I dislike its dated, flashy interface, a lot of the workflow seems very arbitrary, and to get anything done that's more complex than your basic mixing practices, you need to know your way around prior, or your production will halt while you dust off the instruction manual. In its favour, it does have a lot of very praised instruments, however I would advise you invest in some decent mixing tools, as the in-built EQ and compressor are horrid.

Out of curiousity, what makes the in built EQ and compressor horrid? The EQ is a 7 band parametric equalizer with LP, BP, HP, shelf, peak, and band stop band types. The compressor is a compressor/limiter with all the typical functionality of a compressor (up to 20:1 ratio, 1000 ms attack/release/attack sustain, built in sidechaining, and noise gate). I'm not selling the plugins, per se, just curious what makes them poor plugins compared to others.

Well, same here, The EQs and the compressors are fine (well... compressors? I dunno, it seems outdated) as long if you know how to use it, so why is the EQ bad?
I dislike the maximizers and some of the inbuilt synths(Except Sytrus) that just seem to make a bad mate when it's put together with FL's inbuilt FX, But I agree with the arbitrary workflow of FL, but I see FL's workflow the same way as Pro Tools and Abelton, it's jumbled, as for all DAW, seriously, if you take all the designs off, there almost the same.

There's one thing I absolutely hate about FL Studio, when you skin it, there is always this ugly rack on the side you can never get rid of.

However, FL is honesty my favorite DAW out of all I tried (following Reason, Sonar, Reaper and Acid) and I guess It would count as an Industry "Standard" because of it's ability to record (which is terrible by the way), Compose and support plugins, so yeah, it's great, fully functional and lacks that Minimalistic "pro" look that most DAW tend to have...which I really don't like that much

[vladnuke]

Everyone says they have problems working with audio in FL. Haven't had this problem, and I do stuff that isn't electronic sometimes, (really just me playing guitar over a track). Voices sync up, it sure isn't automatic, it's manual, which is pretty lame. I use onboard slicex to cut stuff, and I got Sony acid ms with my new computer so that's pretty kewl. For an example of something I made with Audacity and FL, listen to "10,000 feet in the air", it turned out ok, there were a couple hiccups, but nothing major.

To be honest, I just like it because it reminds me of windows, and that's something I'm comfy with.

[Peak Freak]

OP:
It all depends on your goal, as iroitnyah already said: Your DAW is not that important of a choise than the hardware you want to use to record. Good mics, good preamps and good A/D converters are the most important thing for a HQ sound in a studio, but from what I read, this is latter important for you, as you are trying to make pure electronic music.
The next important thing: Plug-Ins then. Sure, every DAW comes with some nice standard stuff, but sooner or later you will miss something important in that library, or it will just sound ugly.
About the DAW(wars): There are lot of them, and the choise is yours, which one you want to use, which one you even "can" use (yes, you might have problems with some DAWs), which one you can afford!!! (This is very important, because the cracked stuff is buggy, and will ruin your work).

Dr. Drum: This is the only exception. Don't. Just don't.

My uni for example uses Pyramix or Sequoia in most cases. They have ProTools available too, but it is rather used in pop-productions.

In the end it is a question of what you like, what you want to do, and what experience you get with these amount of DAWs available.

[K3WRO]

OP:
Dr. Drum: This is the only exception. Don't. Just don't.

Also, Dubturbo

[XXDarkShadow79XX]

No one gives a crap what you use. If you can make good music with garageband, or a mario paint hack, than god dammit do it! Like I've said:

just don't Forget Like moST people do: no daw is sUperior to any other Daw; It just depends On your workflow.

[Applejinx]

Dr. Drum: This is the only exception. Don't. Just don't.

I'm another Logic pone- wow, haven't usually seen PT excoriated like I have in this thread. One thing about Pro Tools is it will cost you quite a lot, particularly if you're trying to buy the hardware it goes with- Logic is much more what you call 'native', Pro Tools TDM has special plugin processing and has traditionally been the top of the line. But more and more, PCs and Macs can run the plugins natively which saves you money on processor cards. Logic is a lot cheaper, I think it's $200 at this point.

Pro Tools is hosing everybody by switching to AAX- either plugin developers do all the re-development work for free and get hosed, or they charge people to have their same plugins again.
Logic's probably hosing many plugin developers (not me!) by moving to 64-bit only in Logic X- I'd bet money they're going to throw 32 bit stuff under the bus. Currently you can use 32 bit under 64 bit Logic through a bridge application, but it only lets you have one plugin open at a time (PT works like this? really? lame)

Nobody is mentioning REAPER! That is cheaper still and I'm telling you lots of significant industry people are running with it. Get a load of the White Tie theme, some of my fancy pants friends are flipping out about how slick it is.

If you're serious about a professional DAW, never underestimate getting an older computer and running it like a turnkey system: again some of those fancy pants friends (like Terry Manning) are running stuff like Reaper on an old PPC mac. That's right, the guy who runs Compass Point is using a PPC Mac for his DAW (he had it handy). These guys know to get something that works and if it's working (Mac/Logic or Mac/working PT is good for STAYING working) what you do is never update anything and just use it like it was a tape machine.

The thing to be aware of though is, these guys are not like film scorers- they're recording audio tracks, lots of them, sometimes not even lots of them but they make the tracks count. People who need to run dozens of orchestral virtual instruments, or lots of heavy softsynths, have different needs and need more powerful machines (Macs still hold their own here, it's just that you'll want Intel ones and more recent ones). Always have enough RAM and disk speed.

Also be aware that what the plugin and DAW manufacturers want to tell you about what's industry standard is a lie, because on the whole they want you to stay cutting-edge with newest coolest stuff. That is NOT what the industry is doing. Industry standard is 'get a DAW, make it work, get a lot of plugins for it that sound cool (often, 'look cool' is a factor) and try to run it for extended periods of time without messing with it, for fear you'll mess something up and have to spend more money updating all your stuff'.

When you think that some real heavyweights are running Reaper on an old PPC mac and bugging plugin vendors to support those legacy systems, it should be eye-opening, particularly about what you 'need' to get into the game. A bunch of those big-ass metal Power Mac G5 towers (quad, even) are going for about two hundred bucks on eBay. You'd have to get Logic Pro 8 used- or Reaper, current and the same version everyone else is using, 'cos Reaper is supporting PPC and actively fixing stuff that comes up with these machines. And Reaper is $60 if you're not making more than $20,000 a year off your music. If you are, it's $225.

[the4thImpulse]

OP,

I sent you a PM as this thread is getting a little out of hand with the DAW vs DAW stuff.