A rant/argument against software piracy

[the4thImpulse]

Quickly a little about my producing career. I have pirated FL Studio, Massive, Sylenth, Z3ta, VirtualDJ, Izotope Ozone 4, and some others I am forgetting. About two years ago now I decided to stop pirating and started buying software. Today I don’t use any pirated software, I also buy all my music (I don’t even use those youtube to MP3 services). I think you should know I pirated everything before making the choice to stay ‘legit’.


Every day I see someone bring it up on forums such as MLR, and most of the time a moderator will simply say “don’t talk about piracy here” and they never really support the reasoning (I don’t blame them either, it gets tiring explaining the same thing over and over to no end). I wish to share what I’ve learned through experience as well as everything I have observed the time I’ve been producing.


Simply put, piracy will get you know where fast (if anywhere at all). It’s a sign of laziness; you want to jump into the producing world as quickly as possible so you pirate all the software people tell you need and you then realize that there is a whole lot more to this game. This is when you start to slowly give up trying as hard and start posting topics like "How Do I Make Skrillex Wub???? PlZ HALP!!". You then expect people who have been at it for years to hold your hand all the way through until you’re a famous producer (which will never happen) all because you never took the time yourself to learn. Buying your software takes a long time, time you think you don’t have, but that’s when you will learn how to use the software so you are ready for it when you can buy it. From my observations people who pirate are not ready for what they are getting into because they never took the time to ‘learn’ what it is exactly they are getting into.


I quote from Lavender Harmony: "When you actually invest in a piece of software, be it for music, video, drawing or whatever, you will spend more time learning how to get the most out of that investment". This statement is the heart of the argument, how could you possibly care about music if you are not willing to spend your money on it. I have stopped playing video games, I choose not to drink alcoholic drinks, I work at concerts rather than attending, no eating out every day, and so on. It is a sacrifice in that sense, I won’t lie, but it’s a sacrifice that’s very worthwhile. I chose to put music first which meant putting my money towards it before my other wants, and since then I have progressed much faster than I did before. I now enjoy sitting in my studio all day making music and it’s much easier to stay focused on making music. If you care at all for making music then why are you spending your money on everything but the industry?


Finally, please don’t say "I don’t have any money”, that tells me you would rather spend your money on other stuff or you are not at all willing to work to support your past times (not just music). If you don’t think you have money then take a look at everything you have bought in the past 6 months, I am serious everything. If you can honestly say you haven’t spent more than $200 in that time frame on anything but necessities then I can’t help you but say get a job/ better job. If you are also underaged and saying it then understand that you are still very very young and immature (don’t use the “I’m mature for my age, that’s often a sign of immaturity/foolishness but that’s another topic), don’t expect to have high paying jobs to buy all your music gear, instead take it slow and learn (there’s plenty of freeware available), gain some knowledge yourself for once.


"There has never been a famous musician who put music second in their life, if you want to make good music then spend your money on making music rather pirating it and putting it second in your life."



I don't mean to offend anyone, this is a rant, to fully explain my thoughts and reasoning on the subject would take too long (and you would likely lose interest). This is all meant to be encouraging, I'm not hating those that pirate.

[Motivfs]

Very enjoyable read. I was in the same stage as you honestly, and I'm not even a year into producing.

I'm just getting the kinks and learning curves out as year one nears it's end in February, and I'm proud to say that I've invested ALOT of money into music production now, along with the $2000 computer that I'm am finishing building right now, and I assured myself it was "only for music production".

Paying for things, knowing that you've earned it all yourself, worked hard to get it, feels so much more better and makes you (atleast me) so much more motivated to get what I can out of what I paid for.

I don't work at an amazing job right now, but I do it while waiting to go to school, I have a school fund, spending fund, and a fund that supports life for me. I waited patiently, and worked with what I had while that spending fund built up, and finally paid for my programs, & computer, and boy, does it feel good to know I'm getting something reliable, as most pirated software also has bugs in it.

In the end, whenever you pirate something, in my opinion, you won't get the same feeling of accomplishment that you would if you paid for something, it's just non-existent. That feeling of accomplishment also goes hand in hand with inspiration and motivation in my opinion, as 4th quoted Lav saying that you want to get the most out of your investment.

[Nine Volt]

inb4 4th gets banned for discussing piracy :3

Anyway,
I would love to buy the software. Believe me, I would absolutely love to support the hardworking people who dedicate their lives to this kind of stuff. Believe me, if I had a reliable source of income I completely would. And don't just say 'Oh get a job you lazy fuck'. Believe me, I want to. There's just one problem: I'm 15. I have school and a personal life and all those excuses. I'll be trying for a job during the summer for sure.

I've pirated a lot. I'm not proud of it, but I'm not willing to wait to get a few hundred dollars when my yearly income is about 100 dollars. Again, I'm not saying I'm not willing to do it, I just simply do not have the funds or a way of getting the funds. I suppose I could mow lawns or babysit or whatever, but no. I'll admit it, it's partially because I'm too lazy. However, the second I can afford to, I'll be deleting my old pirated software and purchasing the software from the companies.

I agree with most of your statements, however I must disagree with this one:

you want to jump into the producing world as quickly as possible so you pirate all the software people tell you need and you then realize that there is a whole lot more to this game. This is when you start to slowly give up trying as hard and start posting topics like "How Do I Make Skrillex Wub???? PlZ HALP!!". You then expect people who have been at it for years to hold your hand all the way through until you’re a famous producer (which will never happen) all because you never took the time yourself to learn. Buying your software takes a long time, time you think you don’t have, but that’s when you will learn how to use the software so you are ready for it when you can buy it. From my observations people who pirate are not ready for what they are getting into because they never took the time to ‘learn’ what it is exactly they are getting into.

I disagree. Maybe it's because I only actually had to pirate one thing to start producing (Reason), I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm younger than most of the people here. I don't know. But I never really had this problem. Back then, music was a casual hobby, not something I was very serious about, but all I really did was watch a few tutorials and go it alone from there. I'm not saying I haven't made threads about "How do make this sound?", but that's not really what I did. I more tried to experiment and develop something based on my current knowledge at the time.

I realize this may sound like bragging or whatever, I assure you it's not intended that way, I simply meant that I never really wanted people to hold my hand.

Regarding something else you posted that I'm too lazy to quote, music has truly helped me break some of my bad habits. Mostly my video game addiction; because of how interested I was/am in music, I just don't find myself wanting to play them anymore.

I agree with most of your posts though, and please don't think of me as a greedy SOB who is unwilling to pay for anything.

Holy wall of text, Batman!

[Sonarch]

]And if you need more convincing, here's an article (written by "Nine Volt Audio", interestingly enough) that I saw on Dr. Dissonance's tumblr awhile ago. It made me feel so bad, and I have never pirated a thing in my life. http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=365466&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Also, it may just be because i'm weird about stuff like this, but I never really wanted to pirate things. I mean, for a little while I was considering pirating stuff just to see if I like it, and then buying it if I want to keep it, but I've made do with the demo versions and it's gone well enough. I just don't want to start my career in music based on pirated stuff. So I recently bought Massive, since it was all on sale and stuff, and I may be getting FL for Christmas. So, yay legitimacy!

And don't do drugs, kids.

[the4thImpulse]

There's just one problem: I'm 15.

As I tried to say in the OP don't expect too much at your age, your a kid, you should be running around playing paintball with friends without a care in the world about the future(that was me at that age). You know what I mean right?

I disagree. Maybe it's because I only actually had to pirate one thing to start producing (Reason), I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm younger than most of the people here. I don't know. But I never really had this problem. Back then, music was a casual hobby, not something I was very serious about, but all I really did was watch a few tutorials and go it alone from there. I'm not saying I haven't made threads about "How do make this sound?", but that's not really what I did. I more tried to experiment and develop something based on my current knowledge at the time.

I am kinda carpet bombing the subject here, there's always exceptions and list them all out in a productive form would take many paragraphs that few people would care to read. I was speaking more to larger group of pirates I see everyday, I was just like you in my pirating days but what I wrote is based off of my observations; most pirates want their hand held by the people who spent their money.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=365466&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Great article, thanks for posting that and your experience (same with you Motivfs).

[colortwelve]

If you care at all for making music then why are you spending your money on everything but the industry?

Some of us will be in debt for years paying for a decent education in music. That's all I'm gonna say.

[phantomignition]

Just curious, what do you think the point of buying something is if you've already pirated it? I imagine it as just throwing money away as motivation for you to be more productive with what you buy, but with what I've pirated I'm almost always productive with it. I'm always somewhat worried that if I bought something it may turn out to be wasted money, and yes, there's definitely a true fact there, I'm too lazy to do research on what I'd buy, but sometimes it's just kind of nice to have extra tools you may use for little effort.

Lately I've just been learning about what I do have instead of just going out and finding new things I may or may not learn, but all of it's pirated. I just don't see why I'd go backwards at this point.

[Nine Volt]

Just curious, what do you think the point of buying something is if you've already pirated it?

Well Reason 6.5 hasn't been cracked yet, and I haven't found one for Synplant, so there's a practical reason aside from the morals that guide my reasons :3

[quote="the4thImpulse]
As I tried to say in the OP don't expect too much at your age, your a kid, you should be running around playing paintball with friends without a care in the world about the future(that was me at that age). You know what I mean right?
[/quote]

I don't expect to become famous at my age, producers who do (Madeon, Vexare) are either lucky or unusually skilled. Also, I don't play paintball, so there's that. At 15 I do care a lot about my future though (I don't expect to become a famous producer, though, despite the fact that I will have 19 years of musical experience when I reach deadmau5's age :3)

[Dr_Dissonance]

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=365466&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Ah, someone actually saw that! Yeah, it's an interesting/shocking read. It gives you a glimpse at the other end of the spectrum: the people who create these libraries and programs.

Anyway, whilst I don't have a single pirated program on my laptop anymore, I used to! Back when I was a wee lad, I pirated a few things.

I like buying my stuff because it feels completely different. There's something about the ability to say 'I bought this, it is mine' that really feels...awesome. Whereas, when I pirated, it felt like 'I pirated this, I shouldn't have it, but I'm using it anyway'. As you can imagine, it's not as exhilarating as the former.

I also like to support the people who make these things. If they've put all that hard work (evident in the article linked), then they deserve some money!
And it doesn't have to be full price, they have discounts all the time! Especially now, considering it's christmas. If you're too young to buy it yourself, ask for it as a present when it has a christmas discount.
My buying habits with Steam and Sample Libraries are roughly the same, where if I see something amazing, I won't buy it until there's a good discount on it.
In fact, I don't recall ever buying a sample library at full price...

And the talk about being more likely to learn the program if bought runs true.
I feel more inclined to get my money's worth when I invest in an expensive program!

I think, if anything, the main reason for piracy is impatience. Everyone has the ability to buy these programs at some point, but we live in an age where everyone wants it NOW.
If you're young, scrape money up and ask for it for your birthday or christmas. If you have a job, just save up money until you have enough. But of course, both of these take time, so people take the quicker and easier route of piracy to get what they desire in that moment instead of down the line.

Then the mentality of 'I already have it, what's the point of paying now?' sinks in.
The points I've mentioned above. The feeling of actually owning your software and supporting other musicians and creators.

*EDIT*

Oh and:

Some of us will be in debt for years paying for a decent education in music. That's all I'm gonna say.

That hasn't stopped me. I just work hard to pay off that debt in other fields. Sometimes you need to do some extra grunt work in order to get what you want, right?

[the4thImpulse]

Some of us will be in debt for years paying for a decent education in music. That's all I'm gonna say.

Thanks for missing the point, that's all I will reply.

Just curious, what do you think the point of buying something is if you've already pirated it? I imagine it as just throwing money away as motivation for you to be more productive with what you buy, but with what I've pirated I'm almost always productive with it. I'm always somewhat worried that if I bought something it may turn out to be wasted money, and yes, there's definitely a true fact there, I'm too lazy to do research on what I'd buy, but sometimes it's just kind of nice to have extra tools you may use for little effort.

Lately I've just been learning about what I do have instead of just going out and finding new things I may or may not learn, but all of it's pirated. I just don't see why I'd go backwards at this point.

My interpretation of what you wrote tells me you're thinking about it the wrong way. "I'm always somewhat worried that if I bought something it may turn out to be wasted money" My opinion is thats the game, you have an advantage of already tring the software so now is when you think about how useful it is to your productions, if you think it really helps then buy it. Once you buy it you will feel even more compelled to use it for everything you possibly can which will make it well worth the purchase. I pirated Z3ta and liked it, but I also liked massive and sylenth, a year ago computer music magazine include the full version of Z3ta+ so I quickly bought it up and since then i have bought zeta2 and no longer have much desire for any other soft synth. I stuck with z3ta and learned how to use it to its full potential because I bought a wanted to spend as much time with it as possible.

"I just don't see why I'd go backwards at this point", You're not going backwards by buying software. Committing your time to just a few plugins will help you master them faster, you will find less need for the "extra tools" and will only grow more confident in your skills. You are also far more respected as a producer when you support the industry you are a apart of (Yes, if you make music you are apart of the music industry whether you like it or not). I am almost certain you will feel better about yourself when you purchase your first synth, try it out.

[Sonarch]

As it just so happens, I have planned out this weekend for a training montage that won't really be all that exciting in real life. It's pretty much going to consist of me reading through the manual for Massive and learning how to use it, and then i'll do the same with FL studio!
Inb4 I get so much homework that I have no time for music. I would be so sad.

[itroitnyah]

Well, personally, I don't pirate, little if any, and if I don't like it I delete it or ignore it anyways. If I do like it, I use it until I have enough money to actually buy it, then delete the pirated and buy it. I guess because demos aren't satisfying in that there's always restrictions that make it hard to explore the software much so you can get a better opinion on it. There are exceptions, like the ableton live demo, fl studio demo, etc...

But really, I can't condemn people for pirating. I also don't fully support them. You make good points 4th, and even when I do get into circumstances that allow for me to do pirating (mainly when I get my own computer ) I probably still won't do a whole lot of pirating. Mostly because there aren't very many synths that I actually want to get atm. But like I said above, if I come across a synth that I like, I'll most likely invest in it.

Also, if I developed a synth or other piece of software, I can't say I'd be too offended it people pirated it. It's bound to happen anyways, and nothing I say or do would stop people from pirating it. I personally think that you're just looking at the loud minority and mistaking it for the majority. Sure, my profits from it would suffer a bit, but I'd still be making money, and I don't need to be drowning in money to be happy.

inb4 I get banned for supporting pirating to a slight degree

[XXDarkShadow79XX]

I'm 14. I ask for all my programs and stuff for my birthday/Christmas lawl.

I'm SUPER against pirating; (Unless its the Touhou games) Almost as much as I hate it when people do drugs or commit suicide for no reason. As far as I remember, I've never pirated any programs. I DO, however, pirate music (If you consider Youtube to MP3 pirating) I've never ever paid for an album, not even a Monstercat one.

Uuugghhvhv

[itroitnyah]

I'm SUPER against pirating

I DO, however, pirate music.

Oh, the irony! I do believe that a certain scene from the Babs Seed episode would fit perfectly right here

[Captain Ironhelm]

I don't have a single piece of pirated software on my computer. Guess what. I started with a five year old computer I had to reinstall Windows every week, LMMS (legal and free!), Synth1 (Genesis is an amazing synth, wish I knew about it when I first started), legal and free drum samples (they're everywhere!), and some free sound fonts.

Those software developers worked their butts off to make the software, it's only fair give them what is due.

I don't have a single piece of pirated software on my computer. Guess what. I started with a five year old computer I had to reinstall Windows every week, LMMS (legal and free!), Synth1 (Genesis is an amazing synth, wish I knew about it when I first started), legal and free drum samples (they're everywhere!), and some free sound fonts. Where there's a will there's a way.

I worked a full-time job and a part time job. I picked up any side job I could, babysitting, writing, landscaping, moving, washing windows, anything. I reduced spending everywhere that I could, even if it meant a few cents (they add up!). I didn't wait for work opportunities to drop in my lap. If I had no job, my full time job was to find one. This semester I've been working 30 hours a week with a full credit load. People get all surprised when I have some nice things and I'm going through college debt-free (I pay my own way) with a nice bit of savings.

I had to wait my life till this year to get into some of my hobbies/passions. I understand that not everyone is blessed with the same opportunities, but I don't want to hear about how unfortunate and hopeless you are unless you put some serious effort into following your passions. If it's important to you, you'll find a way; if not, you'll find an excuse.

Those software developers worked their butts off to make the software, it's only fair give them what is due.

As for how piracy actually affects the developers. Some friends and I a couple years back had spent hundreds of hours on developing a video game. Someone got a hold of it by the time we released it, and a crappy version was sent out on the internet gathering thousands of plays generating ad revenue, and I never got to see a cent of it. The version was from a pre-release beta stage, so nobody got to see most of the key features that really made the game unique, so it smeared the game's image and our business name. That's about the time I gave up on programming. Don't tell me that piracy doesn't effect the developers. I know my example is mainly on the fault of the uploader, but there always is one when it comes to piracy. I don't know how stealing is somehow acceptable if it can fit through an Ethernet cable.

Also you're a lot less likely to dismiss a synth because you're too lazy to learn it after having spent your hard-earned cash on it.

K rant over.

[PinkieGuy]

Going to jump on the opposite end of the topic here. I own a mix of legally owned software and pirated software. Whether or not I've purchased any individual software has absolutely naught to do with how much I've poured time into each respective software or how what gains I've gotten from them.

My first music software was Cakewalk 1992 edition, which a burn copy of from a music teacher on a floppy disk. I got that when I was 12 or 13, and for a good 5-6 years I spent all my time invested in that software stumbling through writing midi music. The software had no capacity to do anything other than basic midi, and basic automation (vibrato was the devil :S).

When I was 17 (5 years ago), I torrented Reason and to this day still use it for all electronic music production I do. When I was 18 I received Sonar 8.0 as a DAW from my grandparents and I still use it 4 years later as my default DAW.

In both cases, I have invested time and effort into writing music with WHATEVER I have on hand, and that is what has led me to where I am musically now. I have missed out on several job opportunities to instead pursue musical goals, and I'm now struggling to find work this summer because I've passed up so many opportunities.

Moreover, this whole discussion is totally ignoring the unavoidable cost of Hardware. You can't pirate a recording hub, a new guitar, a new bass guitar or the strings that break/rust every few weeks from overplaying. I've spent roughly $2500 on this form of hardware over the last year, and my current annual income is less than that.

Now, if you want to discuss the MORAL implications of piracy, then I'm with you. Now days, I don't keep anything for longer than a month without paying for it or deleting it, unless it's a necessity (such as reason was a few years ago). That's because at the end of the day Piracy is the theft of intellectual property, and I wholeheartedly believe in conformity to the law of your governing land. What I don't appreciate is people arguing that I'm a lesser musician for having pirated software in my possession.

I'm a thief, not a talentless hack.

[MRPPony]

I have so many feels thanks to 4th, Ironhelm, and that article.

I will admit FLStudio and all the synths I have for it (Nexus, Synleth1, Massive, and some others) are pirated, but its not as if I'm not going to buy it (the ones I want to use). I only pirated it because I want to learn how to use it but the demo isn't enough to let me know whether I like it or not (Cept the FLStudio demo. That was a bad 30 days for school and I was so isolated from everyone cause I wanted to spend as much of my time using it). In fact, I'm glad I did not buy Nexus because there's nothing much to learn from it except loading presets, loading arps/effects, loading gui skins, etc. I know you can program your own, but Nexus is waay to convoluted that its not even worth it imo.

Although I don't pirate everything. Looking back how much I could've spent in the past 6 months, software wise, I've only pirated massive and synleth1. Most of my pay went to hardware cause truth be told, until I met you guys at MLR, I never intended to take music production seriously; just as something to do when I'm depressed. I spend most of my time playing bass/guitar/viola/hulusi.
Also, I'm about 50/50 against piracy because I personally like using something and making something with what I have before I decide to invest money into it. My computer rig was a huge gamble in my book just to give you an example of how hesitant I am before buying anything. My problem is trust. I love FLStudio now that I'm going to buy it, but I originally was going to quit all together when I upgraded from 9 to 10 cause I found it a problem. I will agree with you though; buying something feels so much better than pirating/stealing it because I giggled like and jumped like Rarity for DAYS when I got my first CDJs/Mixer and did my first mix.


As for me asking for help and whatever, I am impatient when it comes to music theory since I'm used to just playing music, not making it (orchestra/chamber group). Although that's a habit I'm slowly breaking. This cover I'm working I've had no help and its much more satisfying working on it.

Well I'm done with my bit of opinion which seems to be roughly the same as others.

Correction: I just checked I also got Camtasia though its right now just been collecting dust. Its not even installed, just sitting in the folder.

[Foxtrot89]

I read the initial post and nothing else. Gonna go back and give it a read afterwards, but figured I'd toss my two cents in.

I generally agree with the initial rant. That said, the "I don't have enough money" is a problem I run into time and time again. I can't afford the vast majority of what I want, actually. I'm talking multiple libraries that cost >$1000. I think almost everyone (key word is "almost.") here is guilty of pirating software. I know I am. At one time, FL studio, Massive, Kontakt, Various Kontakt Libraries, and various amp sims were all pirated by me. What draws the line between acceptable and non-acceptable is what the end product is. Every single bit of software that I find worth it, that I think is worth using, I buy. I purchased all of those programs in the end. (or deleted the libraries/everything I didn't think was worth it.) I still have a few things that aren't legit copies, but I intend to buy them when I can afford it. 90% of my income goes to buying new things for my musical endeavors. It's strange that you imply that pirating instantly equates to laziness, as they don't relate in the least. I learned how to use all of the programs I use while they were illegal copies.

It all depends on the person who's pirating. There will be insanely talented/non-lazy folks who pirate just like there are lazy boring musicians who buy all of their stuff.

I may come back and edit this post after I read the rest of the thread.

[Lavender_Harmony]

I'm not going to comment here, as I'll likely come across as mean or bitter or bitch at someone. My views on the subject are widely known, and you've quoted me. I will say one thing: If you try and justify your pirating by age, income or any other excuse, you're a moron.

Oh and if you release your music on bandcamp? Pray you never get signed.

[Foxtrot89]

Lav, out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on my methods? As it stands, the only pirated stuff I have is stuff no longer available for purchase and LASS, which is $1k. I'm about half way to raising the funds for it and that's while making ~1000 a month.

I'm curious that if you find my methods wrong, what exactly about it is wrong. (aside from the obvious "it's against the law.) Also worth noting that I don't release music that I've made with stolen software.

Also, +1 to the "it feels great to finally buy that software you've been using pirated.)

edit: I promise not to get offended or take anything personal!

[Thyrai]

I'm pretty ambivalent towards the moral aspect of piracy, as there's a lot to be said for and against it.

I'll try to keep this as neutral as possible: I'm noticing a lot of posts are making the assumption that theft and piracy are synonymous - but they aren't. I know some of you feel strongly about the subject, but some of the arguments here are really destroying the strawman. Theft is removing something of value from another, piracy makes a copy and leaves the original intact. Also, theft is pretty much illegal in every country, but file sharing is not. Be wary of using words like 'criminal' or 'thief', because those are simply inaccurate. Demeaning labels won't add anything to either side of the pro/anti-piracy crusade.

In all reality, it's because of piracy that music companies have even seen a dime of my money. Trials are a joke most of the time, and the 30-day periods you get for DAWs (when you're starting out) is just about enough time to get frustrated with it before you can't use it anymore. If I like something, I'll absolutely buy it.

"There has never been a famous musician who put music second in their life, if you want to make good music then spend your money on making music rather pirating it and putting it second in your life."

Also, this quote doesn't make any sense. Buying shit won't magically make you a better and more dedicated musician. The whole concept of "If you spend money on it, you'll use it more" is completely subjective and massively speculative.

In my case, it's also inaccurate. I worked just as hard, maybe even harder than I do now when I didn't actually own the stuff.

[Stars In Autumn]

Okay, sooo... I'm going to post a lot here. Time to get on my high horse which is standing on a soap box...

I use to pirate, now I don't. There's a reason I haven't released any orchestral stuff in awhile... I'm actually ashamed for deluding myself into pirating in the first place. I guess it's one of those things being both a software developer and a musician, you really have to delude yourself into thinking that pirating software is morally acceptable or ambiguous.
So saying that I use to pirate don't throw the "you pirated at some point too, you can't talk" argument at me. Look up the Ad Hominem Tu Quoque logical fallacy first.

You can say that you don't have the money, or it costs too much, or it is a victim-less crime, or whatever, but it doesn't change the fact that you're stealing. If you don't care... then you don't care. If you don't want moral integrity to slow your development as a producer, then that's your choice, but just don't delude yourself in thinking what you are doing is ethical.

I'm noticing a lot of posts are making the assumption that theft and piracy are synonymous - but they aren't. I know some of you feel strongly about the subject, but some of the arguments here are really destroying the strawman. Theft is removing something of value from another, piracy makes a copy and leaves the original intact. Also, theft is pretty much illegal in every country, but file sharing is not. Be wary of using words like 'criminal' or 'thief', because those are simply inaccurate. Demeaning labels won't add anything to either side of the pro/anti-piracy crusade.

But you ARE removing something when you pirate software. You are lowering demand of the product. You are LITERALLY devaluing the software. Don't think that just because the original bits are intact doesn't mean you affected market price.

In all reality, it's because of piracy that music companies have even seen a dime of my money. Trials are a joke most of the time, and the 30-day periods you get for DAWs (when you're starting out) is just about enough time to get frustrated with it before you can't use it anymore. If I like something, I'll absolutely buy it.

Two wrongs don't make a right. That's not an morally excusable reason to pirate. Perhaps they need to work on their market strategy, but that's something different all together.

[Thyrai]

But you ARE removing something when you pirate software.

Not quite

You are lowering demand of the product. You are LITERALLY devaluing the software. Don't think that just because the original bits are intact doesn't mean you affected market price.

This is where I agree with you. I'm not saying it doesn't have a negative effect on the marketplace, because it does. I'm only taking issue with the terminology used.

Also, demand is speculative - because it assumes that one would buy something if there wasn't a free/cracked version of it.

Two wrongs don't make a right. That's not an morally excusable reason to pirate. Perhaps they need to work on their market strategy, but that's something different all together.

Why is it wrong? I'm not buying them because I feel I have a moral obligation to do so. I buy them because they're good and because I want to support the company that makes them.

I test drive cars before I buy them, and if I'm going to be spending hundreds of dollars on a plugin or sample set, it better be damn good. Stripped out trials are awful, and I don't like having 3-10 days to figure out if I like them enough.

[Stars In Autumn]

Not quite

You need to refute the argument.

Also, demand is speculative - because it assumes that one would buy something if there wasn't a free/cracked version of it.

Do you honestly think that if it were impossible to pirate software, the demand for software would be unaffected? That's incredibly naive.

Why is it wrong? I'm not buying them because I feel I have a moral obligation to do so. I buy them because they're good and because I want to support the company that makes them.

I test drive cars before I buy them, and if I'm going to be spending hundreds of dollars on a plugin or sample set, it better be damn good. Stripped out trials are awful, and I don't like having 3-10 days to figure out if I like them enough.

It's wrong in the same way stealing a bike is wrong, even if you come back six months later and pay for it (or return the bike). How long do you wait between pirating and purchasing the software? Does the price drop between that time period? How long is too long? It's too ambiguous.

[XXDarkShadow79XX]

I'm SUPER against pirating

I DO, however, pirate music.

Oh, the irony! I do believe that a certain scene from the Babs Seed episode would fit perfectly right here :lol:

Hmmm. Maybe I should have been more specific in the first sentence, but I decided to leave the contradiction in there because I'm not sure if Youtube downloading counts as pirating.