What do you consider "pony" music?

[GhostXb]

To be honest, sometimes I forget this is an MLP forum.

But that doesn't stop me from coming back. I initially came here because I heard of the charity albums and I wanted to be a part of it. I post music once in a while, but I only posted ONE actual pony song. I love this community, it is very active. People are posting projects and ideas all the time. Some other forums that I use to go to often just kind of died over time but this one is booming!

This forum is for MLP, that is for certain, but that aside, it is also just a great community of musicians.

That said, I'm really looking forward to season three. I know it will be a great catalyst for many songs to come! Many songs that I make aren't pony specific, so I don't label them as such. However, if a song I'm working on is inspired directly by the show, I'll slap that pony tag on there with pride, whether it has pony samples or not.

I am however, against slapping pony tags on songs for its own sake. Admittedly, it can be hard to make the distinction sometimes.

[Stu Beef]

Let's be serious: Music is the purest form of artistical expression, and for hundreds of years, it was all about the music, not the meaning behind it.

Umm, I would say only in specific cases/movements is that true; even if it's 50/50 on music vs. expression at any given time, you can't deny that what is being said has a large part of the history and success (hundreds of years of religious music? kissing the rear of a patron?) of music (at least in terms of Western history, which is what most of us are concerned about w/r/t music itself).
(sorry, that kind of bugged me; no ill will)

As for the main subject of concern, my opinion is that we've gone too meta. Just how "pony" could something be said to be if, while it is derivative of the show, it is incredibly far removed from the original content? I've seen lots of different representations of various fanon, and while their connections with the show are obvious, they don't really reflect the show in any meaningful way (fan characterizations: line-less BGs, Pinkamena, etc.). You might say that these are legitimate because they are apart of our pseudo-culture/community but the same could be said about anything non-pony created by a fan. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the majority of people who are into all the community goings on are not just in it for the show, but all of the things that it has inspired. We have collectively connected the fandom to the show whether or not we had wanted to, and this has blurred the lines between what can be called genuinely "pony" or not. Does a piece about (apparently) systematic mutilation have anything more to do with the show than a wordless, instrumental, dub track? Who the hell can say? I mean, I guess it's up to us, but I don't think it's fair to trust ourselves at this point.

I mean, I get you are asking this because it really IS just up to what we want to hear and I mean, if people like it, whatever! I just feel that, because of the reasons above, we can't really judge this fairly. I'm completely of the opinion that, as fans of the show who like and want to develop this sense of community, we should be willing to support the endeavors of anyone who claims to champion our loosely held ideals (ie liking a TV show).

[Raddons]

If you have to justify it as being pony, it's not pony.

[Freewave]

It does look like most of you dislike samples in pony music.

While the majority of the music we receive is instrumental, they are actually the least viewed music posts on EQD. Early on back when it was a rarity, and we would see a not a clever pony track every once in a while, they were incredibly popular. The flood of dubstep/trance/orchestral/octavia/scratch songs has diluted them pretty hard though. Obviously including a popular instrumental musician in the header increases/decreases the traffic for it (Sim Gretina for example usually boosts it a bit), but I don't think the other songs are actually getting any traffic from that.

I want to get Instrumental people their hits back on eqd, but re-teaching the audience to click these posts has been difficult, especially when most of the songs are still the same.

If you have to justify it as being pony, it's not pony.

Well you can put your description of what influenced it and explain yourself if people don't get what you were after. However Seth is a bit right though if people skip that description in the embeds so it has to be music that was "obviously" influenced about something in mlp canon or fanon. It's much harder when the music doesn't broadcast that influence because it wasn't there during the initial creation of the track or wasn't displayed well. Instrumentalists do have more of a burden sometimes to show that.

I do not think people are against music that samples (I know many people at mlr want the freedom NOT too sample) but i think they are tired of BAD sampling (still using the "yay", "louder", and "party canon" dialogue) or using the same vocals on songs from season 1 to make music. People have to use some originality when making music or finding samples and not just follow the same tired formatting. People are fine with instrumentals although i think samples add to ponyness WHEN they are used well (ie Alex S, PinkiePieSwear, SGAP). It's still all about making a good pony song by having a good idea behind the inspiration of the original song. Would PinkiePieSwear tracks sound as good w/o those samples, i think not....

[Rainbowdutch]

okey then, let's do a little test here

I have picked 8 out of the 24 songs that we had up for prelistening today and am going to post them here. I am not going to tell how we voted on these so you won't get influenced by that (although you can probably see the results when they get, or don't get, posted on eqd)

your choices for voting are:

Y = being a spotlight post
X = music of the day post
N = rejected/send to the moon

if you really don't know what to do with it you vote

A = abstain



now we have got the standards for the quality down so you can elaborate on that if you want to but you won't help us with that at all...

what I would like you to vote on is ponyness.
there is a reason why I am giving you the links and not just embedding the songs into the page.
go read the descriptions and see what people have to say (or don't have to say) about their inspiration and look at the title of the song and how it may (or may not) correspond with the feeling of the song/the song itself. give a conclusion on if your thoughts about the ponyness of these songs.


good luck

1.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs8oVW-tBWM&feature=plcp
2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1bhQNRNwQ0
3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wlxO73sikk
4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFq9zJqaBHA
5.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA07vdB2D3s
6.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1CQWaedJrY
7.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqi_jkOSs-w
8.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMAi2gblGzM

[Rainbowdutch]

I understand the point you're trying to make here, Rainbowdutch, but I honestly don't know what rubric you guys use to judge, whether it's ALL about quality or it's about mainstream elements, and I don't know how far "Pony sampling" plays into your decision.

I don't know your grading rubric, so I can't fairly judge.
Most of these i would be putting on the wall, but that's based on my own bias.

right now, it doesn't matter how we judge. this is the reason why I didn't include anything from our perspective.

we want your personal opinion on these tracks and where they should belong.

(if you do want some kind of idea to how we judge songs quality wise you could go look on eqd now and get some examples in the spotlight and music of the day post, but like I said the ponyness is something we are still not too sure about and that is where we want you guys' help with)

[sellyme]

Honestly, as an absolute bottom line: if the musician says it was inspired by MLP or the fandom, then for all intents and purposes, it's pony-related. By saying "not pony enough", you're essentially telling the musician that they're lying about the inspiration for the track. It should be obvious that there's absolutely no way that a listener can know what the music was inspired by (or at least, know moreso than the musician), so this should be avoided.

This may cause worry about musicians pretending tracks are pony-related when they aren't. Well, think about it: if you're capable of making music that would pass the quality tests for EqD, why not write pony music? Why bother "faking" it? That just makes no sense.

Forcing vocals or samples to be used in a track is a horrible idea that I'm glad is no longer the case. I agree with itroitnyah and Lavender Harmony in that the segregation of vocal and instrumental music is probably the cause of the lack of interest in instrumentals. It's just like genre tagging: if you tag a song as "Dubstep", someone who would have loved it if that wasn't there will go "Eww dubstep" and not listen.

TL;DR: if the musician says their music is pony-related, that's good enough for me. I have absolutely no authority to tell them what they were inspired by.

[Freewave]

Here's my thoughts:

1. N (does not appear to be related to MLP, no explanation given,linked ep also not pony related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs8oVW-tBWM

2. either N or X (influence seems to be silent hill and no explanation of how it links to mlp besides the pic)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1bhQNRNwQ0

3.N (not pony related at all except for the title)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wlxO73sikk

4. either N or X (no explanation of how it links to mlp besides the pic)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFq9zJqaBHA

5. N (have to give it that with no real explanation of how it links to mlp or gummy besides the pic, track isnt bad tho)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA07vdB2D3s

6. X Good explanation, not overly influenced, sounds good, good presentation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1CQWaedJrY

7.N Missing a real image, explanation is weak, music is kinda one dimensional
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqi_jkOSs-w

8.X Music fits the cool artwork. A bit different sound too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMAi2gblGzM

On the ones where it could be X or N it would really depend on how many good submissions there were and how good the whole track was and if it was something that would be appreciated by your audience. If possible and include them on the daily post. Again a reason for rejection on the N's WOULD be a good thing to encourage improvement and to explain.

Honestly, as an absolute bottom line: if the musician says it was inspired by MLP or the fandom, then for all intents and purposes, it's pony-related. By saying "not pony enough", you're essentially telling the musician that they're lying about the inspiration for the track.

Right but take look in the pile he listed and there are some definite no explanation given, no influence shown, because there really isn't anything to link it to mlp. Not to diss those artists but if they didn't place it into the music then it's not really pony music. Again putting an image on there isn't enough. Some didn't even DO that. The people who began this community didn't phone it in, the third generation of brony musicians shouldn't water down the influence either. Try harder.

[Cyril]

The people who began this community didn't phone it in, the third generation of brony musicians shouldn't water down the influence either. Try harder.

I love you for this.

I am not gonna post my opinion too much in here other than the fact that I will say one thing: I am a tyrant when it comes to voting on both quality and pony-ness.

[sellyme]

Honestly, as an absolute bottom line: if the musician says it was inspired by MLP or the fandom, then for all intents and purposes, it's pony-related. By saying "not pony enough", you're essentially telling the musician that they're lying about the inspiration for the track.

Right but take look in the pile he listed and there are some definite no explanation given, no influence shown, because there really isn't anything to link it to mlp. Not to diss those artists but if they didn't place it into the music then it's not really pony music. Again putting an image on there isn't enough. Some didn't even DO that. The people who began this community didn't phone it in, the third generation of brony musicians shouldn't water down the influence either. Try harder.

If there's absolutely nothing indicating it's pony-related, be it in the album art, image, or description, then it's probably fair to say it's not pony related, because the artist isn't saying it's pony-related. But with some of the ones you said are "not pony", you have stuff like "Seventh Element - Pinkie Promise (Reprise)". Seventh Element has published quite a lot of music for Silent Ponyville. This is presumably a non-official track on the same theme.

You've also said "not pony-related" for a number of musicians who have made music in the past that is quite definitely pony-related, either being a vocal track, a remix of a song from the show, or a fan-made remix. You also said that track 5 was non-pony, even though it actually has the word "Gummy" in the track. Not a particularly strong link, but just as much so as it would be if musicians were forced to put samples everywhere in their tracks.

It should also be noted that not taking the artist's word on what is "pony-related" would (and has) resulted in musicians artificially adding samples or vocals to songs that were never meant to have them. It is in fact doing the exact opposite of what the system is meant to be doing. I can say with absolutely no hyperbole, that I know hundreds of musicians who, in a fit of frustration after all of their pony-related songs being rejected from EqD purely on the basis of them not being pony-related (even though they were definitely inspired as such), just created a quick, low-quality track, threw a couple of "Yay" and "20% Cooler" samples in it, and submitted it.

9 times out of 10, this artificial, half-assed, sellout track gets published. Having such arbitrary and third-party definitions on what can be considered pony is doing naught but decrease the quality of the fandom's music.

[Freewave]

Honestly, as an absolute bottom line: if the musician says it was inspired by MLP or the fandom, then for all intents and purposes, it's pony-related. By saying "not pony enough", you're essentially telling the musician that they're lying about the inspiration for the track.

Right but take look in the pile he listed and there are some definite no explanation given, no influence shown, because there really isn't anything to link it to mlp. Not to diss those artists but if they didn't place it into the music then it's not really pony music. Again putting an image on there isn't enough. Some didn't even DO that. The people who began this community didn't phone it in, the third generation of brony musicians shouldn't water down the influence either. Try harder.

If there's absolutely nothing indicating it's pony-related, be it in the album art, image, or description, then it's probably fair to say it's not pony related, because the artist isn't saying it's pony-related. But with some of the ones you said are "not pony", you have stuff like "Seventh Element - Pinkie Promise (Reprise)". Seventh Element has published quite a lot of music for Silent Ponyville. This is presumably a non-official track on the same theme.

I'm not familiar with that project sadly and while I don't mind a crossover your description of the track HAS to be your sales pitch on what the music is about. When people don't fill that out it and there isn't a strong case of THIS IS A TRACK ABOUT MLP then it's tough i think to guarantee a deserved spot. It just seems like this was more influenced by Silent Hill's music, there is no mention about Pinkamina.

You've also said "not pony-related" for a number of musicians who have made music in the past that is quite definitely pony-related, either being a vocal track, a remix of a song from the show, or a fan-made remix.

Right but you have to judge them on the individual track they submit. If it's not present on that one it's hard to approve for that one to be featured. I think there's a difference between saying someone is a brony musician (generally making about the show as part of the community) and looking at an individual track and seeing if it's bringing the goods. I have no doubt they are part of the community but the community as a whole only makes great music when it follows the principles we have put in place on linking back to the show EFFECTIVELY. For EQD they have to judge on a track by track basis.

You also said that track 5 was non-pony, even though it actually has the word "Gummy" in the track. Not a particularly strong link, but just as much so as it would be if musicians were forced to put samples everywhere in their tracks.

That's kind of the problem with that track, I like the music, I like the artist, but using an image of Gummy as a blank slate seems like the music was made first and then theme was decided at the tail end and not at the beginning. Does this sound like a track ABOUT Gummy? I guess I want more theme and concept involved. I'd want to include it if that was done. Maybe the ones where i'm on the fence between X or N should be part of the daily spotlight but then again i don't know what quality the other 15 tracks submitted that same day are.

It should also be noted that not taking the artist's word on what is "pony-related" would (and has) resulted in musicians artificially adding samples or vocals to songs that were never meant to have them. It is in fact doing the exact opposite of what the system is meant to be doing. I can say with absolutely no hyperbole, that I know hundreds of musicians who, in a fit of frustration after all of their pony-related songs being rejected from EqD purely on the basis of them not being pony-related (even though they were definitely inspired as such), just created a quick, low-quality track, threw a couple of "Yay" and "20% Cooler" samples in it, and submitted it.

Well that's another part of the equation EQD has gotta stop accepting regurgitated show samples on tracks. That's lame sampling. A lot of Balloon Party tracks had the same stilted sampling. It's been done before. It's also evident when a track has been worked on for a week or a month. After they decide if it's pony they have to decide if its any good. EDM instrumentals by nature aren't terribly pony unless the musician can make it apparent the influence was there. I will say I agree that people are VERY frustrated with the EQD submission system. It takes all the fun out of the process of making brony music. Submitting time and time again and getting rejected w/o rejection letter explaining why (if it made it to the listeners at all) out of all myriad of reason EQD MIGHT reject your track is rather soul crushing. It makes it barely worth spending the time on a track when you spend a month on something and it's for naught. It also never explains why which is essential if you want people to get better and make the music that EQD does want. I have never EVER gotten a rejection letter so if they are doing that then that process is clearly broken.

9 times out of 10, this artificial, half-assed, sellout track gets published. Having such arbitrary and third-party definitions on what can be considered pony is doing naught but decrease the quality of the fandom's music.

Well if people are putting half-assed material up and EQD is approving them then that's the other problem. Just because something is pony doesn't mean it's necessarily good if the effort isn't shown and if there's no real theme to the music. If EQD is approving substandard "pony" tracks just because there are samples but no good concept or great music behind it then that's another additional problem. I'm not sure how EQD can listen to so many tracks day in and day out and listen to each one fully. It seems like it must be a daily toast beard sync and that sounds a bit exhausting if their process is designed to weed out the "good" from the "bad" through as quick a process as possible and trying to exclude a lot of it.

[Sethisto2]

The problem with rejection letters, is we get 15-30 tracks a day. We have attempted to get systems going for it, but the people running it always burn out in a day or two.

[itroitnyah]

The problem with rejection letters, is we get 15-30 tracks a day. We have attempted to get systems going for it, but the people running it always burn out in a day or two.

Have you tried just having one single person who doesn't review the music, and just sends the rejection emails?

And the emails don't have to be some deep explanation or review of the song and why it didn't make it, that's what we have mylittleremix for. They just have tell us that we didn't make it. I'll bet that the majority of musicians wouldn't even mind if it was just a copy pasta "Sorry, you didn't make it" message. However, since not every brony musician comes to here or posts their music here, you can just include in the copy pasta response something along the lines of "Be sure to check out mylittleremix.com if you need help"

[the4thImpulse]

The problem with rejection letters, is we get 15-30 tracks a day. We have attempted to get systems going for it, but the people running it always burn out in a day or two.

And the emails don't have to be some deep explanation or review of the song and why it didn't make it, that's what we have mylittleremix for. They just have tell us that we didn't make it. I'll bet that the majority of musicians wouldn't even mind if it was just a copy pasta "Sorry, you didn't make it" message.

I think that all it really needs to be, I have submitted stuff in the past but received to email saying it was accepted, rejected or if you even read it. Some kind of confirmation saying "you didn't make the cut" and maybe even pointing them to MLR so for those of us who have time can help them understand as to why that may be. I have submitted songs multiple times after not receiving any message back because I believed it may have gotten lost in the many emails you receive.

Like he said, a copy-paste sentence would be a big improvement.

[itroitnyah]

The problem with rejection letters, is we get 15-30 tracks a day. We have attempted to get systems going for it, but the people running it always burn out in a day or two.

Have you tried just having one single person who doesn't review the music, and just sends the rejection emails?

^

I believe we have a volunteer

Thanks but no thanks, I don't have the time to sent a good 20 emails a day AND make music. And I'd actually prefer to make music than send a lot of emails for most of it there wouldn't be a whole lot of time for me to make music >.> But I'm sure that there will be some volunteers

[StevenAD]

Here's my thoughts:

7.N Missing a real image, explanation is weak, music is kinda one dimensional
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqi_jkOSs-w

What little respect I had for you just disappeared.

Missing a real image? Did you even look at the picture. There's a reason I did what I did.

Music is one dimensional? There's a thing called groove, and it can be just as important as 15 different crappy orchestral samples all in a jumbled mess.

Explanation is weak? No. I gave a short explanation because music should communicate without having to have long-winded pointless conversations. Why don't you take your head out of wherever it is you keep it and actually listen to music for once.

EDIT: While I am very mad about this, I understand that I am overreacting and that you are mostly right. I'm not usually one to flip out like this. Sorry.

[Nine Volt]

Jesus, butthurt much?

[StevenAD]

Jesus, butthurt much?

Shut up. I wasn't talking to you.

Edit: jesus, i'm sorry about that

[Nine Volt]

Jesus, butthurt much?

Shut up. I wasn't talking to you.

There was an image here but I deleted it :3

[Magnitude Zero]

Way to represent the community, guys.

[Nine Volt]

Thanks Mag, love you

[Navron]

Probably about 50 better ways you could have responded to Freewave's decision. Just saying.

I can actually agree with what he said about your track.

"Missing a Real Image"
Your image is very hard to see, and exceptionally blurry. Most often this is used to bring something to the attention of the viewer, in which case for you, is your name, taking up about 1/50 of the screen in the lower left corner. Thus your background to the song just appears to be a big washed out, filler image.

"Explanation is Weak"
Your explanation is, "Celestia wakes up one day to find her castle abandoned and in disrepair." That's it. Now, a short description to give the viewer an idea to start off can work if you accurately depict the story through the music, but to me, the music itself doesn't sell the story, and therefore, you should have added more to your description. What was she doing in the castle? Something abandoned and in disrepair sounds pretty depressing, but the music sounds cheerful. Why? Is she happy it's abandoned?

Here's a description that I wrote for one of my earlier songs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXNWa5jB-WQ
The story's about a man who dreamt of going to Equestria, and through discovering the wonders of Astral Projection, decides to try and project himself into the world. However things are not as he imagined, and he quickly discovers himself locked in a never ending nightmare, his only wish to return home from where he came, but was he in Equestria to begin with?

That's setting the story, without completely selling it through the description alone. It gives enough of the story to the listener, that they can fill in the gaps from the music itself.

Now, onto the 3rd part...

"Music is kinda one dimensional."
I might actually be biased because I absolutely despise that kind of synth sound, but regardless of those feelings, your song just kind of hovers with the same timbre for the entire duration. Any sense of progression, movement, and evolving story, is barely heard above that. Which to the average listener, doesn't take them anywhere. They're stuck in this plain abandoned castle, sitting there, and looking at a wall.

You need to reevaluate where you intend to take the story. All you've set is the background, but you're missing your middle and foreground elements.

A stage performance isn't very entertaining when all you see on stage is the back drop.

EDIT: While I am very mad about this, I understand that I am overreacting and that you are mostly right. I'm not usually one to flip out like this. Sorry.

Just remember, everybody here has dealt with rejection, and harsh criticism. It sucks, but without it, there's no way we'd improve. I hope my critique has shed some light on what Freewave was talking about, but bear in mind, there's absolutely no way somebody can give full critiques on songs submitted to EQD.

[Flinckie]

Here's my thoughts:

1. N (does not appear to be related to MLP, no explanation given,linked ep also not pony related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs8oVW-tBWM

2. either N or X (influence seems to be silent hill and no explanation of how it links to mlp besides the pic)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1bhQNRNwQ0

3.N (not pony related at all except for the title)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wlxO73sikk

4. either N or X (no explanation of how it links to mlp besides the pic)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFq9zJqaBHA

5. N (have to give it that with no real explanation of how it links to mlp or gummy besides the pic, track isnt bad tho)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA07vdB2D3s

6. X Good explanation, not overly influenced, sounds good, good presentation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1CQWaedJrY

7.N Missing a real image, explanation is weak, music is kinda one dimensional
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqi_jkOSs-w

8.X Music fits the cool artwork. A bit different sound too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMAi2gblGzM

Whoa, I was a bit surprised to see my track on this list. In hindsight, I didn't really write a lot of things in my description, which was me being lazy. I did have in mind from the start what I was writing about, and I reflected that the best I could. I'll try to write more details in descriptions in the future.

Moving on, I think you should keep the sample rule buried in the ground. Why? Because as it is, you are getting flooded with instrumental tracks that are arguably not pony-related. If you were to go back to the pony-sample rule, you would get flooded with the same thing, except the instrumentals would have out-of-place pony samples. Easy choice, IMO.

I honestly think you should trust the musician. If he presents it as being pony-related, it's pony-related.

[Raddons]

This thread makes me laugh.

[Nine Volt]

Your face makes me laugh
BAM, WHAT NOW PUNK?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?