Your opinions on using loop and sample packs.

[Artimeus]

Quite frankly, I love using loop/sample packs. I have a massive collection I've been gathering for some time now, and I am always clicking through them, finding something new every time. I am a huge fan of the Deadmau5 XFER pack, as well as quite a few Loopmasters packs. And of course, the good old Vengeance packs. I have quite a few freebies as well.

The thing is, some people frown upon the use (some might say reliance) of production-ready loops and samples, rather than starting a song from scratch. I do not agree with this mindset. The thing is, if you're just getting started, loops and samples are, in my opinion, the way to go. You don't have to try and figure out how a synthesizer works, or how to write melodies; you just pick and arrange, do some basic editing, throw in some simple effects, EQ, and presto! You have your first track, AND you probably learned a few things on your way.

I think it's a great way to get someone hooked in music production. I'm sure many of us have gone, "Man, I wish I knew how to make THAT sound" and then looked up a tutorial on it. But who's going to wring your neck if you use a loop instead? And heck, you can always use a loop as your foundation, and as you gain experience, build upon it. Add some basses, layer some synths, toss in some exotic percussion sounds to get that rhythm flowing.

Of course, you don't want to be the guy who overuses 'popular' L&S packs, because that does cause many people to shake their head disapprovingly. So, in conclusion, I don't think it's 'cheating', I see it as a great way to unleash creativity. Just don't get stuck in the habit of ONLY using L&S's; you'll never grow as a musician!

[K3WRO]

I actually love sample packs and pre-mastered loops, I especially love the Danny Byrd pack because it comes with crisp sounding Bass kicks and Hi-hats, but for the snares, I use the pendulum sample pack. I also usually include Boy in a Band's samples in most of my songs.
But because people shun upon them, I barely use them and My main focus is to discover my own sound so I technically avoid using samples, loops and presets. But If I do use Samples and presets, I like to modify them.

In my opinion, yes, it's ok to use sample packs, but It'll prevent you from getting to your style.

[Artimeus]

In my opinion, yes, it's ok to use sample packs, but It'll prevent you from getting to your style.

I agree with everything expect this. Now, if you're going to use those samples AS IS, then yes, definitely. However, I generally find the opposite to be true, in that they might help define your style. Take a look at french house, for example, which relies on heavy sampling. The trick is how you use those samples. You can slice them, effect them, pitch shift them, reverse them, gate them, and so on and so on. And just as you said, presets are well and good, but can be made so much better when you modify them and make them your own. I suppose it really comes down to how you use the tools at your disposal.

[R-Y-S-E]

I use samples a lot but all I do is only use about half a second of each sample (for complextro), change the pitch of a few, edit them, etc, and it's sometimes hard to notice I've even used samples. Then again, it's noticeable in a couple tracks. As long as you edit the samples so they don't sound the same (so you actually do some of the work ), I think using samples is just as good as making your own sounds.

But if you just put together full length samples by other people, it's pretty much like using tracing paper to draw a picture and not really your own.

[vladnuke]

If I must use samples (again, Massive is a wonderful thing, and is just fine for drums) I usually layer and screw with them HEAVILY to make them sound less like samples. As I do not own a drum set, nor have the cash to get one, I'll carry on with this. I mean, Kontakt's a sampler and no one gets chastised for using it. It's all in how one approaches the matter (usually withe the goal of creating something new). I mean, me slamming a book on the floor made a pretty good kick in one of my songs, and I still use the clap I made from layering 12 different claps I made with my mic. But there are limits to that, and I need more options, so I may use sample packs as tools for making something new.

Other than drums, I can't really find a good use for samples (except, of course, for random lulz to play during drops, ponies and internet memes and refrences to stuff). I can't stand loops and don't use them ever, simply because they will never have the sound I want.

[Dr_Dissonance]

I think it more depends on HOW you use them than whether you use them.

I personally think that if you simply just choose 3 or 4 and go "Here's my piece!" that's a tad lazy and uninventive.

But if you use 1 and put other stuff around it, then great!
If you use 3 or 4, but alter and change them about a bit, then great!

I think samples and loops are fine (and fun). IF you make them your own. Not just pressing play and bam! finished piece.

[Counterwise]

I ALWAYS change my samples that I use. I never just go with the raw thing. I rarely use hi-hat loops though, I've only used them like twice. I try to create my own little loops and patterns for my songs.

Whenever I use bass samples, I always put them in Directwave. It allows me to change the sample much more, and actually does require an input of effort. I do use some techniques that R-Y-S-E also uses, with me also producing some complextro

So in my opinion, using samples are fine, as long as you actually do some work with them to make it so your not just dropping sounds into your track without an effort.

[ThatRobChap]

I never use samples raw unless they're acoustic drum samples, which generally I just EQ a bit. I find it interesting to take a sample of something and make it sound like something else entirely.

[Kopachris]

Samples and sample packs, yes, but I try to avoid premade loops.

[ChromaticChaosPony]

I use samples only when making drums. That's because I don't have any percussive instruments to make my own samples with. I don't even have anything random lying around that could pass as a kick drum, snare, or hi hat. So I can only use samples.

I tend to avoid using loops unless I'm making house music. Even then, I use only 1 loop at the beginning (usually only the first 8-16 bars), and the rest of the entire song is mostly 4/4 kick drums with all of the synths and basses sidechained to them, or no drums at all.

Kyoga, I'll start making my own samples when I can get ahold of random percussive instruments.

My grandfather has some cool instruments at his house (Venezuelan and Puerto Rican stuff, I couldn't give you all the specifics). Next time I go there, I'll bring my condenser mic and record samples of all of the percussive ones. Until then, I'll just use my millions of random samples.

Other than percussion, I make everything else myself.

[Mundius]

Samples are a godsend, but not loops. They're only good in video games.

[Habanc]

I use samples and layer them, except for hats, those I leave alone and EQ the sample pretty heavily. I also download recordings of snares and toms and chop them up occasionally, layering them in with samples from packs.

I have never really used a percussion loop, as I like to be able to take out certain instruments if need be.

[Navron]

Not a fan of loops, because it takes a lot out the process. For example, drum loops don't let the musician manually figure out syncopation, the difference in choosing a closed hi-hat vs a ride cymbal, etc.

I've actually become a better drummer on a real set because of my tinkering around with different rhythms, swings, etc. on my keyboard and a drum instrument/sampler. Think managing triplets with arms and 16th notes with feet is difficult on a live set? Try doing that with individual fingers

Without using loops, you need to manually think about how different rhythms and instruments mix together to create a groove, so in a way, using loops actually hampers a musician's improvement, because they're not learning that area of composition.

Samples on the other hand, are kind of dependent on what type of samples a musician is using. Drum samples seem to not be a very big deal, because they're often hard to create manually without access to a real set. I haven't met many electronic musicians that don't use 3rd party drum samples. I think the reason most people think it's okay, is because drums don't typically have an individualistic sound to them, and are instead used mainly to drive the song, vs sampling entire synths and/or instruments used in other songs, which are typically unique to that particular musician, thus negating the learning process and hindering a musician's improvement once again.

[Overkillius]

I personally would never consider using them... just because I like to micromanage every aspect about my compositions...

But honestly, if someone can't tell that you are using loops, then that is a good indicator that you used them in a creative enough way.

I am really offput and mad when someone claims "This is my composition!" when you can tell that they just used loops though.

So there isn't anything inherently wrong with pre-made loops, I just often see it as limiting to the composer (which can be considered a good thing actually) and lazy.

[Anforium]

I detest loops. Honestly, if you're going to make music, write your own beats nd melodies. Stop being lazy.

Samples on the the other hand are great. Most people don't know how to make drums and such so there is nothing wrong with using them. The only drums I know how to design are chiptune.

[Foxtrot89]

My opinion might be a bit blunt, but to me if you ignore a sample or sound just because it was recorded/compressed/eq'd by somebody else is insanely narrowminded and is a self inflicted roadblock. That doesn't mean be a thief and look somebody elses work and call it your own, but you're only hurting yourself and your endeavors if you deny an influential sound for the soul purpose that you didn't make it.

Case and point; "old machines reaper dubstep" makes insanely clever use out of in game sounds/tunes from mass effect.

[Artimeus]

My opinion might be a bit blunt, but to me if you ignore a sample or sound just because it was recorded/compressed/eq'd by somebody else is insanely narrowminded and is a self inflicted roadblock. That doesn't mean be a thief and look somebody elses work and call it your own, but you're only hurting yourself and your endeavors if you deny an influential sound for the soul purpose that you didn't make it.

Case and point; "old machines reaper dubstep" makes insanely clever use out of in game sounds/tunes from mass effect.

You've all made some really great points. This, though, echoes some of my thoughts. Another thing: these packs are literally made to be used, royalty-free. I do not see the harm is utilizing the tools you are given, as long as, as other have stated, you don't blatantly layer loop after loop without doing some of the work.

What I like about percussion loops is that, assuming you've bought a pack like, say, something from Loopmasters, you can load up a drumloop, and then try to re-create that loop by using the provided one-hits. This'll teach you how to make your own groove pretty quickly, and if you didn't like a part on the drumloop, you can leave it out, or add in your own stuff. Pretty neat strategy.

EDIT: Another thing I just learned from Cinematic - Structure was using loops and samples to play alongside a layer of synth chord progressions to add depth and width to your sound, to keep it from sounding static and giving it some atmosphere.

[Foxtrot89]

That's something I do a lot actually. Almost all of the loops I make myself with one shots I learned by dissecting other peoples songs or loops. The very small grasp I have of orchestral and epic "world" drum patterns I owe to loops and taking the time to study them.

Sorry if my thoughts are sloppy, by the way. I'm on day three of like zero sleep.

[soup2504]

Drum loops are the only form of loops I use, and even then, I don't use them that much until later on I my songs, and I never just put them in place and say "Boom! Drums!", I usually end up takin some drums, creating a really simple beat, and placing it on top of a loop. It sounds better than the loop by itself, of you ask me.

" The thing is, if you're just getting started, loops and samples are, in my opinion, the way to go. You don't have to try and figure out how a synthesizer works, or how to write melodies; you just pick and arrange, do some basic editing, throw in some simple effects, EQ, and presto! You have your first track"

Ehehe, no. You say it as if a beginner could create an entire song out of loops. This is not a good idea. People NEED to figure out how a synthesizer works. People NEED to learn how to write melodies. They should not rely so heavily on loops to get their job done.

[Kopachris]

" The thing is, if you're just getting started, loops and samples are, in my opinion, the way to go. You don't have to try and figure out how a synthesizer works, or how to write melodies; you just pick and arrange, do some basic editing, throw in some simple effects, EQ, and presto! You have your first track"

Ehehe, no. You say it as if a beginner could create an entire song out of loops. This is not a good idea. People NEED to figure out how a synthesizer works. People NEED to learn how to write melodies. They should not rely so heavily on loops to get their job done.

I agree, partly. If you're just using loops, then you're just arranging, not composing. If that's all right with you, then by all means.

[R-Y-S-E]

I agree, partly. If you're just using loops, then you're just arranging, not composing. If that's all right with you, then by all means.

I made this loop:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/86845638/original.WAV
Into this:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/86845638/mine.WAV
Would you consider that composing or still just arranging? I edited a lot of the original loop

[Captain Ironhelm]

I've never been able to utilize loops well, nor even really be able to go off of presets in synthesizers. Overall, I have a respect for people who go from ground zero and are able to create everything (or almost everything) from the bottom up.

I have no problem with using loops as a tool. Use what you've got. Using 'em for everything from your drums to your melodies to your everything else seems kinda lazy, since all you're really accomplishing is rearranging. I think the ultimate goal would be to at least be able to create all synth sounds on one's own, and use samples for things like sound FX or a drum fill if one has to. They should be used to increase creativity, not stifle it. Shoot, a big reason EDM has grown over the years like it has is from sampling from previous music.

I view it sorta like people using other's vectors or models in photoshop or animation. Or like using a frozen premade food for making a dish for a meal.

[Navron]

The other thing is, pretty much every electronic musician that's ever existed, has been there at the beginning when they didn't know how to do anything. In fact, it was even harder starting off 10+ years ago when everything was mostly analogue, required expensive analogue devices for almost every effect, etc.

Now with the internet and the widespread use of soft synths, pretty much everybody can hop into electronic music if they wish, which is both good and bad. Good because it allows those of us who don't know anything about electronic music to actually get into it, and bad for the same reason.

I can see the reasoning behind getting a person to practice arranging using loops, but it isn't a hand-held hobby. At some point that person has to go through the pain of learning electronic music theory, programming synths, etc. If they aren't willing to go through that, and they rely on other musicians to give them loops, tutorials, presets, etc, then perhaps it isn't the right hobby for them?

I'm all for new musicians, but there's already enough people out there that avoid every complicated aspect of electronic music, copy the way other musicians do things, and go, "Hurrr, I'm an awweesome musician."

[Kopachris]

I agree, partly. If you're just using loops, then you're just arranging, not composing. If that's all right with you, then by all means.

I made this loop:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/86845638/original.WAV
Into this:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/86845638/mine.WAV
Would you consider that composing or still just arranging? I edited a lot of the original loop

Doesn't count. You weren't just using the loop. You used the loop as a melodic outline. I'm thinking of entire pieces that are just pre-made loops with no modifications other than to assign instruments and mix the thing together. (Which I've done before.)

[cyrricky]

In my opinion, using loops and sample packs is 'cheating'

By that, I mean that they're the quick way to get something, rather than actually doing the work to figure out how to do it. For example, drum loops I frown upon, but individual drum samples are just fine. The above argument pertaining to French House is the fact that you don't use sample packs, you use sampleing. Huge difference.

Even if you're just starting out, you shouldn't use loops and sample packs, because even if it's more difficult to do all the work yourself, you're more likely to learn tricks to help your production in the future.