Why don't you guys look into mixing more?

[senntenial]

Disclaimer: Now I'm not to proclaiming to be any "MixMaster" cough joe cough nor any better than you guys, but why don't you guys check out some tutorials and videos about mixing?
I've noticed many of you are worried about getting good synths, sound designs, so on so on, but none of these things matter unless you mix your instruments well together. Just something I think many of us can benefit from, including myself.

[Wintergreen]

Exactly, I mean, if you look at something like Daft Punk, the stuff they use is pretty minimalistic and simple, but the real magic of what they do comes in their mixing n stuff. If you're just working with synths, and not trying to do, like, orchestral stuff, or over-the-top brostep, then barring a few exceptions, the synth you use isn't really all that important. It's really just a difference in Displays and interfaces at this point. Yes, I know there are some synths that are better than others, but until you've grasped an understanding of mixing and mastering, those subtle differences aren't going to be very obvious, or even noticeable.

tl;dr, lrn2mix

[Freewave]

do you have anything in particular (software, videos, etc) to recommend for "mixing"?

[Navron]

Well, to be fair, mixing is by far the most difficult skill to master in electronic music.

I thought mastering would be the hardest, but I've actually gotten fairly good at mastering, and no, I don't use one of those all in one plugins. I manually add each plugin in specific sequence, but I digress.

The first part of song writing deals with the composition, and what instruments you're going to use, but I definitely agree that the mixing should be the most sought out skill to develop.

EQ, compression, side-chained effects, automation, delay, reverb, filter sweeps, volume changes, and literally everything else besides boosting final volume and composing the song can fall under mixing.

I don't think mixing can really be taught. There's so many areas that an overall tutorial would be insanely long, and still not cover everything.

The best someone can do is read specific tutorials on their DAWs and effects, and just get in there and play around.

[the4thImpulse]

Well, to be fair, mixing is by far the most difficult skill to master in electronic music.

I thought mastering would be the hardest, but I've actually gotten fairly good at mastering, and no, I don't use one of those all in one plugins. I manually add each plugin in specific sequence, but I digress.

The first part of song writing deals with the composition, and what instruments you're going to use, but I definitely agree that the mixing should be the most sought out skill to develop.

EQ, compression, side-chained effects, automation, delay, reverb, filter sweeps, volume changes, and literally everything else besides boosting final volume and composing the song can fall under mixing.

I don't think mixing can really be taught. There's so many areas that an overall tutorial would be insanely long, and still not cover everything.

The best someone can do is read specific tutorials on their DAWs and effects, and just get in there and play around.

I agree mixing is the hardest and personally most time consuming part of the whole music production process. Its not something you can learn in a book or even in a video, you have to practice it with your own tools. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to mixing, its all personal preference which comes from your knowledge of music, your inspiration and even your own ears.

My personal way of testing a mix (back when I was new to all of this) was to compare my song to the music of artists I enjoy in a similar genre. I would listen to where they put different sounds in the stereo image and what sound was most prominent in the mix.

Yes you need great mixing skills to make great music but you also need the same amount of skill in sound design to keep the music interesting. I can't say there is really one skill in electronic music production that is far more important then the others.

[CommandSpry]

Hah...mixing...luckily with my choice of software, I don't have to do any of that

[K3WRO]

Hah...mixing...luckily with my choice of software, I don't have to do any of that

Dr. Drum

[Whitetail]

Honestly if people need to look up anything I'd say it's more on the composing aspect, and not even just like "look up a bunch of music theory" more on the lines of how to sound more expressive.

I see a lot of people complaining about not having good melodies or parts sounding boring and sound design can only go so far to fix that while a few little ornamentation to the melody could do LOADS of help to make it sound more interesting.

That being said, some proper music theory could help too with making more interesting and fluid progressions, it's rather boring to stick with the same progression the whole song and I see oh so many people try to pull it off.

[5COPY]

Well, to be fair, mixing is by far the most difficult skill to master in electronic music.

I thought mastering would be the hardest, but I've actually gotten fairly good at mastering, and no, I don't use one of those all in one plugins. I manually add each plugin in specific sequence, but I digress.

The first part of song writing deals with the composition, and what instruments you're going to use, but I definitely agree that the mixing should be the most sought out skill to develop.

EQ, compression, side-chained effects, automation, delay, reverb, filter sweeps, volume changes, and literally everything else besides boosting final volume and composing the song can fall under mixing.

I don't think mixing can really be taught. There's so many areas that an overall tutorial would be insanely long, and still not cover everything.

The best someone can do is read specific tutorials on their DAWs and effects, and just get in there and play around.

I agree mixing is the hardest and personally most time consuming part of the whole music production process. Its not something you can learn in a book or even in a video, you have to practice it with your own tools. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to mixing, its all personal preference which comes from your knowledge of music, your inspiration and even your own ears.

My personal way of testing a mix (back when I was new to all of this) was to compare my song to the music of artists I enjoy in a similar genre. I would listen to where they put different sounds in the stereo image and what sound was most prominent in the mix.

Yes you need great mixing skills to make great music but you also need the same amount of skill in sound design to keep the music interesting. I can't say there is really one skill in electronic music production that is far more important then the others.

I actually do the exact same thing right now. And it makes me more and more unhappy with my stuff

[senntenial]

All good discussion. Personally I actually have no music theory knowledge, but I guess it's sorta compensated for the several years I've been taking classical lessons. As for mixing, I would have to agree that just expirementing is the best way, but videos can help you get started. I reccomend Reso master class (can't remember the name exactly, just search YouTube) he had some neat stuff to say.

Also I reccomend dr drum and dubturbo. You live in 2012, you don't have time for skill like those lame dudes!

[ph00tbag]

That being said, some proper music theory could help too with making more interesting and fluid progressions, it's rather boring to stick with the same progression the whole song and I see oh so many people try to pull it off.

This is something that's definitely worth noting, and it really applies to just about any genre, even the more minimalist ones. As much as repetition is fundamental at all levels of music, variation is essential to adding impact to that repetition. Just as a melody of the same note repeated over and over again is really freaking hard to do in an interesting way, a track that is just the same melody repeated over and over again is really hard to remain interested in.

Although sometimes it's just a matter of context. Sometimes you want complete variation in all elements, but sometimes the same melody can be given a totally different feel with a new chord progression, and sometimes just changing up the melody can keep a chord progression from getting stale. This is also another area where experience is more important than book-learning.

[Raddons]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variation_%28music%29

Variations can save your life. They let you be lazy without actually being lazy

Just kidding of course, but learn all you can about variations, and when in doubt, harmonize EVERYTHING.

[Artimeus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variation_%28music%29

Variations can save your life. They let you be lazy without actually being lazy

Just kidding of course, but learn all you can about variations, and when in doubt, harmonize EVERYTHING.

Haha, auto-arpeggiation is also a great life-saver. But in all honestly, it can come in handy if you're looking for variety and you've nailed a great sound. Plus, in most piano rolls, you can arppegiate and then move/add/subtract/edit notes to make it original. Great fun to play with.

[Raddons]

Funny thing about that is that I thought arpeggiatiors would be fun. I just do all my arpeggios by hand .

But yeah, stick an arpeggio in a section you've already done before and you're golden haha

[5COPY]

How did this go from mixing to music theory wat

[senntenial]

Majic

[5COPY]

We should still look a lot more into mixing imo. Music theory is simple for most of us here. Plus I'm pretty sure that a lot of people would agree with me that technical stuff in music is a lot more hard and complicated then must of us might had expected at first before we got into producing.

[Whitetail]

It was more of a "hey, here's some things you guys might want to focus on improving" than just "you should improve mixing."

And quite honestly I'd say theory would be a bit more important for people to look into, especially if you just learned from screwing with piano roll, since I see more people lacking on the theory end then the mixing end. A lot of people tend to forget that in electronic music it's important too, often these same people complaining about difficulty coming up with melodies.

Besides I was talking more about things like ornamenting, harmony, etc. - not the really complicated things but things that can easily make your sounds more interesting - expression is a pretty big key to making things like synth lines sound interesting,

[senntenial]

This is now a spaghetti thread

Pasta.

[CommandSpry]

no pidom dunt derael teh tapic

[Kopachris]

Back to the music theory and variations stuff...

Best thing IMHO to learn is harmony and voice-leading. Come up with a nice root progression to use as an ostinato or riff in the bass line. Chances are, you'll be able to come up with a few different chord progressions on that same root progression. Even if you don't, 4-part voice leading will give you three different, stackable melodies to play over that root progression in any order or together (e.g. tenor, then soprano, then soprano and alto, then all three, or whatever--easy build section right there). Playing the same root progression getting boring? Use different arps and/or instrumentation, change filter cutoff, ADSR settings, etc. (Or come up with a new progression, of course.)

[Raddons]

It's just interesting what you can do with one progression. I took a closer look at "Beyond Her Garden" tonight for the first time as a musician instead of as a listener. It's interesting how the whole song he keeps to a i-VII-VI-III progression and does so much with different ostinatos and melodies. I love it.

[XXDarkShadow79XX]

I have no idea how to mix or master. The only two things I know how to do are: use parametric EQ, and use the drums preset on the compressor. (If you haven't guessed yet, I use fl) I'm starting to get the hang of using reverb and delay, but that's about it. How in the world do you master? Hell, what is mastering, really?

[Kopachris]

I have no idea how to mix or master. The only two things I know how to do are: use parametric EQ, and use the drums preset on the compressor. (If you haven't guessed yet, I use fl) I'm starting to get the hang of using reverb and delay, but that's about it. How in the world do you master? Hell, what is mastering, really?

Mastering is something that may or may not be necessary, depending on how you do your mix. In professional studios, mastering involves preparing the track for whatever medium it's going to be distributed on, usually with a bit of compression, a bit of EQ, and maybe a fade-in/out somewhere. Back in the days of vinyl (today?), the EQ part was especially important--tracks had to be equalized a certain way, deemphasizing the bass, so the grooves in the record would turn out nice and clear. (If you left it like that, though, it would sound like shit, so record players would reverse that equalization on playback.)

[Whitetail]

Never master your track if you don't already have a good understanding of mixing and have it mixed exactly how you'd like it. Honestly it's better just to pass it off to someone who DOES know how to master and focus on getting a good understanding of mixing yourself before you stray into mastering.

Mastering should never be used to fix mistakes which are mixing in nature and yet I see oh so many people trying to do just that, it's not essential anyways for hobby stuff in the first place so don't even bother any time with it until you've got everything else firmly.