My drums are boring and repetitive, need some help.

[Dabrenn]

I would think this would be a fairly easy problem to fix but I'm having some trouble for some odd reason.

Can anybody give me some advice on how to spice up the percussion of a track? Maybe some good Shaker/hat/clap/snare/kick samples?

Also what is the "easiest" and most efficient way to add in kicks, snare, and hats and such into Ableton live without screwing with your patterns/clips?

This right here (which is actually my first song ever) is the song in question.

I'm NOT trying for a Filthstep, skrillexy sound, many people seem to think that in their first impression. I'm not sure the exact genre this would fit into, but it has the general feel I want it to have which is not a dance-floor dubstep wobble filthy sounding thing.


http://soundcloud.com/dabrenn/rd-2


Any and all advice and criticism is greatly appreciated! Thank you guys so much.

[Rainbow_Rage]

Throwing in minor variations can do wonders. Nothing extreme, but even just a little change every few bars makes a world of difference. Also, something like switching from hi-hat to ride for a section is another simple way to add variety.

[Dabrenn]

Throwing in minor variations can do wonders. Nothing extreme, but even just a little change every few bars makes a world of difference. Also, something like switching from hi-hat to ride for a section is another simple way to add variety.

Thanks! I'll go add some of that.

One problem I run into though is that Ableton Live seems to come stick with very limited percussion sounds. Right now all I'm using is a kit 707 and an 808 kick. The kit doesn't seem to have many options and creating my own drum rack through their stock sounds seems to leave me with even less. I haven't spent a TON of time looking into it, so that right there may be my problem.

[Dabrenn]

deadmau5 sample packs are notoriously good, and i've been picking them up as I go, but I don't do that much dubstep, so I wouldn't consider myself an expert on the subject.

I'll definately look into Deadmau5's soundpacks. Sounds like a good place to start even though I'm not a big fan of his stuff, but I do thoroughly enjoy most of his sounds, synth and drum, coincidentally. I hope to make Progressive House more than anything honestly, so his sounds should do me well even though He's much more electro.

when you swap from hihat to Ride cymbals, it's usually a great revelation to a great and more open sound. Great if you're trying to progress in a song and things are sounding too "repetitive"... also mixing things up with the snare placement and the bass kicks, even occasionally will add SO much more flavor to your tune.

Throwing in minor variations can do wonders. Nothing extreme, but even just a little change every few bars makes a world of difference. Also, something like switching from hi-hat to ride for a section is another simple way to add variety.

You two seem to be in word-for-word agreement here. Thanks!

I love this forum! Full of such helpful people. I hope to stick around and become part of the community here, hopefully help others out too.

[the4thImpulse]

Puting in a random sound like a metalic or wood hoit once every bar or two can add a lot to the drums, you can change the hithat pattern very frequently and add them in at diffrent velocity/pitch. Really any random sounds that don't intrude the rest of the drum kit will make your tracks sound more interesting and easier to relisten too.

Another tip:
In house music the drum always plays on the quarter note like

Kick......Kick......Kick......Kick......
adding in a double kick at the end really helps after a phrase, like
Kick......Kick......Kick......Kick..Kick..Kick......Kick......Kick......Kick......
Adding random kicks (in time of course) like this will easily help your drums sound less dull.


In ableton I always use drum racks for most of my percusion (long cymbal chrashes I leave out), that way they take up one channel and I could eq and effect each individual sound I want. Get a few free smaple packs and your good too go. After every song I save the drum rack and, tempoarily, reuse it for future songs, that way I don't have to create a new rack when ever I have an idea in my head. I eventually change out most of the samples and re-eq/compress everything on that rack and then save it as a new rack.

[Dabrenn]

i'm really bad at making wub sounds though. Primarily because I don't have the tools you would need to make dubstep. (2 that come to mind are Massive and FM8)
instead I program my "dubstep programs" in the C++ programming language. I did all my wubs and dubs zubs fubs etc. using the programs I wrote, and a couple wavetables from a Mixcraft Pro Studio 5 addon synthesizer called ME80.

That seriously impresses me. I dabbled with C++ for awhile but it didn't really go anywhere beyond the most basic stuff. I did enjoy your song, thank you again.

Puting in a random sound like a metalic or wood hoit once every bar or two can add a lot to the drums, you can change the hithat pattern very frequently and add them in at diffrent velocity/pitch. Really any random sounds that don't intrude the rest of the drum kit will make your tracks sound more interesting and easier to relisten too.

How exactly do you personally go about doing this in Ableton? I can do it but I feel that my method is extremely inefficient, and could be much better.

Omnivore

I love that kid, He's really good although Mare-Do-Well isn't my favorite song of his. Next time I listen to him I will listen for what you're talking about

[the4thImpulse]

Puting in a random sound like a metalic or wood hoit once every bar or two can add a lot to the drums, you can change the hithat pattern very frequently and add them in at diffrent velocity/pitch. Really any random sounds that don't intrude the rest of the drum kit will make your tracks sound more interesting and easier to relisten too.

How exactly do you personally go about doing this in Ableton? I can do it but I feel that my method is extremely inefficient, and could be much better.

Like I said I use drum racks which can hold 100+ samples, so you just get a sample pack with whatever random sounds in them and load them in the drum rack. Do you know how to use drum racks?

[Versilaryan]

Drum racks are wonderful, wonderful things. You really should learn how to use them.

Usually, what I do to make a drum beat is start with something really basic. And then I'll add hits here and there, move a hit half a beat forward (or backward)... Really, just mess around with it and keep what sounds good. You can also play around more with effects on drums -- adding delay to hi-hats and snares is nice, and some people will take the whole snare track, reverse it, add reverb, and then reverse it again to get a sort of a lead-up into each hit.

Another thing you can do is use a snare or kick that's not nearly as punchy as your main and then have that trigger right before your actual hit. So you'll have a quick da-dum instead of just the dum you'd normally get. It's something you can add here and there to add variety to your hits.

[natsukashi]

I'm personally a fan of impulse instead of the drum rack. The drum rack feels very cluttered in my honest opinion.

I have two ways of making beats, first one is sampling breakbeats and chopping them up to get randomized glitchy patterns and alternating with playing them straight, but maybe that's not what you're after.
My second method is to simply load up an instance of impulse and program about 8-16 different patterns at varying lenght and style which I alternate between on the tried and true 4, 8 or 16bar rule.

I am personally a fan of complex drums and I often try experimenting with triplets. To get triplets in ableton, simply take four notes of the same lenght, select them all and rightclick. You should see something named "Stretch notes" in the lower part of the dropdown. When you select that you get two lines that appear, one before the first note and one after the third note, you want to pull the pick-shaped things at the top of those lines and move them in so you quantize three notes in your preferred duration. I usually do triplets in 8th notes but it's really up to you. You'll notice that the fourth note gets left behind outside the desired lenght. That's okay, it's an anchor that makes sure that you quantize properly. Just delete it when you're done. =w=

Of course you can do this with any number of notes as long as you add the extra one for the anchor.


Oh, and if you're doing rolls of some sort, make sure you drag around the velocity for a less obnoxious sound.

[Freewave]

Drum racks are wonderful, wonderful things. You really should learn how to use them.

Just to confirm as it was unclear, Drum Rack or Impulse = Ableton DAW correct?

[bartekko]

Drum racks are wonderful, wonderful things. You really should learn how to use them.

Just to confirm as it was unclear, Drum Rack or Impulse = Ableton DAW correct?

Ableton is the company. but both are drum machines of Ableton Live

[the4thImpulse]

To get triplets in ableton, simply take four notes of the same lenght, select them all and rightclick. You should see something named "Stretch notes" in the lower part of the dropdown. When you select that you get two lines that appear, one before the first note and one after the third note, you want to pull the pick-shaped things at the top of those lines and move them in so you quantize three notes in your preferred duration.

I believe there is an easier way to get triplets in ableton. Simply change your grid options, right click in the piano roll and under the fixed grid option it says "Triplet Grid" clicking that with change you grid into a triplet grid of whatever size you choose in the fixed grid section (quarter note, 8th, ect). Its the way I have always done and after tring your way I think this is much easier.

[Dabrenn]

Thanks again everybody for the help. I take everything all of you say to heart :D


@the4thimpulse, What i meant by my question is more specifically how to you add single kick into the song on arrangement view at, let's say bar 120.

The only way I know how to do that is to make sure that that section is not consolodated with any other part of the loop and then manually add in the kick to that specific clip, otherwise it will copy that kick to every single instance of that loop in that consolidated section.

What I ended up doing in this song is making an extremely long drum clip by copy/paste so every drum loop section is one long section rather than repeated loops.

I was wondering if there is a more efficient way just to add a kick in at any point in time without it interfering with the loop.

I feel like that it is a really dumb question, but whatever, thanks again.

[Dabrenn]

I am personally a fan of complex drums and I often try experimenting with triplets. To get triplets in ableton, simply take four notes of the same lenght, select them all and rightclick. You should see something named "Stretch notes" in the lower part of the dropdown. When you select that you get two lines that appear, one before the first note and one after the third note, you want to pull the pick-shaped things at the top of those lines and move them in so you quantize three notes in your preferred duration. I usually do triplets in 8th notes but it's really up to you. You'll notice that the fourth note gets left behind outside the desired lenght. That's okay, it's an anchor that makes sure that you quantize properly. Just delete it when you're done. =w=

I used the Triplet Grid in this song. I think that's a little easier than your method.

I'll make sure to try out impulse as well as drum rack though, thanks.

[the4thImpulse]

Thanks again everybody for the help. I take everything all of you say to heart


@the4thimpulse, What i meant by my question is more specifically how to you add single kick into the song on arrangement view at, let's say bar 120.

The only way I know how to do that is to make sure that that section is not consolodated with any other part of the loop and then manually add in the kick to that specific clip, otherwise it will copy that kick to every single instance of that loop in that consolidated section.

What I ended up doing in this song is making an extremely long drum clip by copy/paste so every drum loop section is one long section rather than repeated loops.

I was wondering if there is a more efficient way just to add a kick in at any point in time without it interfering with the loop.

I feel like that it is a really dumb question, but whatever, thanks again.

If I read that correctly I believe the answer is very simple, just add a plain audio channel with nothing on it and on agangement view place the kick sample to the desired location and its finished. If the kick is part of a loop then cut away the rest of the loop so the single kick is remaining.

[Dabrenn]

If I read that correctly I believe the answer is very simple, just add a plain audio channel with nothing on it and on agangement view place the kick sample to the desired location and its finished. If the kick is part of a loop then cut away the rest of the loop so the single kick is remaining.

Not sure if I totally follow, what is the point of the blank Audio track then? Are you saying record the kick as an audio clip then add it in that way?

[BinaryBludgeon]

I would suggest looking up alternate drum samples online.
deadmau5 sample packs are notoriously good, and i've been picking them up as I go, but I don't do that much dubstep, so I wouldn't consider myself an expert on the subject.
when you swap from hihat to Ride cymbals, it's usually a great revelation to a great and more open sound. Great if you're trying to progress in a song and things are sounding too "repetitive"

also mixing things up with the snare placement and the bass kicks, even occasionally will add SO much more flavor to your tune.

Those exist?! Totally following that advice.

[Rainbow_Rage]

Not sure if I totally follow, what is the point of the blank Audio track then? Are you saying record the kick as an audio clip then add it in that way?

He means put in an audio track with nothing other than that one kick you want to add

[the4thImpulse]

Not sure if I totally follow, what is the point of the blank Audio track then? Are you saying record the kick as an audio clip then add it in that way?

He means put in an audio track with nothing other than that one kick you want to add

Exactly.

In ableton right click and hit "Insert Audio Track" (Ctrl-T doe shtis aswell) and in that new audio track drag and drop the kick sample from where ever your getting it from.

I hope it makes sense this time.

[Dabrenn]

In ableton right click and hit "Insert Audio Track" (Ctrl-T doe shtis aswell) and in that new audio track drag and drop the kick sample from where ever your getting it from.

I hope it makes sense this time.

Ok that makes sense, But I don't think that really fixes what i was trying to ask, if I then want to worry about all other percussion aspects, I'll end up having an audio track for all my kicks, hats, cymbals, snares, and claps, which seems like a waste of space. I'm a little compulsive about making things as efficient as possible, and having that many audio tracks would really bother me heh, but if that is the best way to go I'll do it.

I'm sorry if i was unclear the first time, But when I said "kick" I really meant just add anything into the drum loop.

If I want to make a 4 bar different drum pattern (i.e. adding a kick, removing a hat, adding a ride) from 120-124 for example, would you recommend just cutting that off and changing it one piece at a time in arrangement view? And continue doing that for every time I want to change it? That's what I was doing since I don't want those 1000 patterns.

Sorry If I'm being really difficult, feeling a little stupid right now.

[the4thImpulse]

In ableton right click and hit "Insert Audio Track" (Ctrl-T doe shtis aswell) and in that new audio track drag and drop the kick sample from where ever your getting it from.

I hope it makes sense this time.

Ok that makes sense, But I don't think that really fixes what i was trying to ask, if I then want to worry about all other percussion aspects, I'll end up having an audio track for all my kicks, hats, cymbals, snares, and claps, which seems like a waste of space. I'm a little compulsive about making things as efficient as possible, and having that many audio tracks would really bother me heh, but if that is the best way to go I'll do it.

I'm sorry if i was unclear the first time, But when I said "kick" I really meant just add anything into the drum loop.

If I want to make a 4 bar different drum pattern (i.e. adding a kick, removing a hat, adding a ride) from 120-124 for example, would you recommend just cutting that off and changing it one piece at a time in arrangement view? And continue doing that for every time I want to change it? That's what I was doing since I don't want those 1000 patterns.

Sorry If I'm being really difficult, feeling a little stupid right now.

I dont think I have a perfect answer for you so I will just share my method and maybe you can get something out of it..

Like preiviousl stated I use drum racks for everything except cymbal crashes. To start I make a midi clip and write in the drum pattern I want and then place that on the arangement (easy so far). Then I duplicate it however many times I want to creating a long phrase witht the same loop going over and over. Now when I want to change things up I click on the clip I want to change and simply add or remove the de-sired midi notes until I have something new (it can be a big diffrence or small). Finally I change the color of the clip so it stands out against the rest of the clips (meaning I change the color of every diffrent clip I have).

Thats how I would do it, just add in a new midi clip (If your using drum racks) and make the nessary changes.

[Dabrenn]

I dont think I have a perfect answer for you so I will just share my method and maybe you can get something out of it..

Like preiviousl stated I use drum racks for everything except cymbal crashes. To start I make a midi clip and write in the drum pattern I want and then place that on the arangement (easy so far). Then I duplicate it however many times I want to creating a long phrase witht the same loop going over and over. Now when I want to change things up I click on the clip I want to change and simply add or remove the de-sired midi notes until I have something new (it can be a big diffrence or small). Finally I change the color of the clip so it stands out against the rest of the clips (meaning I change the color of every diffrent clip I have).

Thats how I would do it, just add in a new midi clip (If your using drum racks) and make the nessary changes.

Ok that sounds essentially like the way I'm already doing it. The problem I ran into though is that I dragged the clip out on the Arrangement view so that it was "consolodated" and every change i made affected every clip in that group, so I had to manually cut every drum clip out, which took me ahwile and was not something I wanted to go through every time I wanted to change a drum pattern. It seems like you just copy/pasted each midi clip individually instead of letting Ableton drag them out and consolidate them. I'll just have to make sure to keep that in mind. derp.


Thank you so much!

[natsukashi]

WHAT WE HAVE A TRIPLET GRID?

I should really read what it says in the dropdown menu. ;w;

[Kromium]

Ok DAW war coming, but have you tried Ableton? Building drum loops and adding variation to the drums is so easy compared to FL Studio IMO.

[the4thImpulse]

Ok DAW war coming, but have you tried Ableton? Building drum loops and adding variation to the drums is so easy compared to FL Studio IMO.

If I'm not mistaken we have been talking about ableton the whole time here, and I agree I am much faster at ableton then FL (and I have used both for more then a year each).