Few Random Questions ;o

[NameWTH]

Note: I type too much. I promise it won't take too long to read. @_@

So, I started making music a few weeks ago, and I've run into a few issues that I can't seem to solve by looking up tutorials on YouTube or even by Googling them. Though this could just be because I've been immensely tired the last few days and my searching skills are relatively fail at the moment (I tried searching here before posting too but that didn't work too well). :l

I hope you don't mind me typing too much. I'd like to explain my questions clearly to avoid misunderstandings. <3


I do have Massive. I also have Battery 3 and FM8 but currently use neither (I looked through a few kits on Battery but couldn't find what I was looking for, and FM8 was just...yeah). And I use FL Studio 10. ;o Just in case any of that is relevant.


Anyways, here's the questions I have:

1) I can make a growly (I think that's the right word) bass line on Massive that goes rawr, but as soon as I try to move up a few octaves it loses it's growly rawrness and just goes all "waaah" and stuff in a high pitch. That was...the most horrendous description I've ever given. Here, have an example of what I want instead. <3


Y u no have spoiler D:

As soon as the drums kick in that uh... "do do, do do do, do do do, do do, do, do" part comes in, and it's high pitched but still has a really growly kind of a sound. Is this something I can do on Massive, and if so, would it be possible to get a brief summary of the settings for a similar sound so I can start messing around with it? Or a link to a tutorial for a similar sound would be even better.

2) How the hay do I find good snare samples? D: Every snare sample I find is either doesn't fit in electronic music, or it's one of those ones that sound like a guy accidentally dropped a piece of cloth on the snare and that was the recording (as in they just have absolutely no punch to them; I'd get more out of a recording of me slapping my kitchen counter). What I'm looking for is either a snappy snare (such as when you mix the default snare/clap samples in FL), or something like what was used in the song I posted above. Is this something I can make using a VST of some sort, or am I just really oblivious to some epic page of snare samples?

3) Similar to the above question, but with kick samples. The FL Studio kick works almost perfectly with the way I do my drum parts, because I occasionally use short double kick rolls (I'm a drummer, so I don't use straight beats), but I'd like to use other ones since the FL samples are pretty easily recognized. I pretty much just want a short but hard kick, so it still sounds good on a subwoofer, but doesn't fall apart when I throw in a double kick roll or two.



And since I mentioned my drumming being different from most songs I listen to, I guess I should probably post a song or two of mine to give an example. Go easy on me, it's only been 3 weeks since I started. D:

Random electro stuff (1:12 is an example of that double kick stuff):


And a song that's a bit more fitting for these forums <3:

[Lavender_Harmony]

Ho boy... Lots of shtuff! x3 Alright..

1. When you pitch up a bass sound, to keep that low, thick tone, you should be doubling that with a pure sine wave. To do that in Massive, go to FIle>New, then change the first OSC to something with Sin in the name, then move the dial marked Waveform to that. So if the sound is called Sin-Tri, thats Sine Wave on the left, and a Triangle on the right. You can also add the same growly bass sound down below it. It's all about layering to get these kinds of complex sounds.

2/3. This thread here is quickly becoming a repository of everything royalty free thats on the web. It just takes a little bit of hunting. If money isn't an issue, you can go for Vengeance samples, but again, for snares, it's all about layering. You want to find a good, full bodied snare that has a lot of weight to it, and boost somewhere around 200Hz. You need to find the sweet-spot with your EQ and push that up. Then over that layer a white noise snare, like from the old 909's of yesteryear, and maybe a clap, then use compression to bring out that punch. You can also use parallel compression if you don't wanna squash the sound too much in your mix. For kicks, it's all about finding the right kick sample, EQing it, take out the subs to leave room for your bass, and then EQ and compress and adjust that sample until it punches through your mix. Realistically in most electronic tracks, the kick doesn't actually carry much weight. It instead accentuates the sub frequencies around 100-150Hz, pushing up the bass momentarily. The kick sample itself doesn't have that full 'Oomph', so when making a track, find a sample that sorta fits, make your track, then once you've laid the groundwork, go back and make some EQ/Compression adjustments to give it that punchiness.

Remember and look around YouTube for tips and tutorials, and search the threads around here for little tidbits. Happy producing!

[NameWTH]

1) It's quite possible that I'm blind and just didn't see the dial you mentioned, but when you said "Waveform" did you mean the WT-position dial? I still haven't quite figured out what a lot of the stuff in Massive does yet, but I'm guessing what you mean is turn the WT dial all the way to the left so it's only using the sine wave part, not the triangle?

2) I was thoroughly confused by that, so I'm guessing I should start looking up some tutorials on EQ stuff. o.o The topic you linked to should keep me busy until I've learned about EQ though. <3

Thanks a ton for the quick help. Those problems were really starting to bug me. D:

[Random111223]

1) It's quite possible that I'm blind and just didn't see the dial you mentioned, but when you said "Waveform" did you mean the WT-position dial? I still haven't quite figured out what a lot of the stuff in Massive does yet, but I'm guessing what you mean is turn the WT dial all the way to the left so it's only using the sine wave part, not the triangle?

Yes, the WT-position dial.

Yeah, layering is really efficient like lavender said. Try switching an oscillator's shape from Spectrum to Formant to get that high screechy sound.

Also, adding a scream filter gives a nice growl effect. Play around with the scream and resonance knobs, the higher the screechier.

[the4thImpulse]

1) It's quite possible that I'm blind and just didn't see the dial you mentioned, but when you said "Waveform" did you mean the WT-position dial? I still haven't quite figured out what a lot of the stuff in Massive does yet, but I'm guessing what you mean is turn the WT dial all the way to the left so it's only using the sine wave part, not the triangle?

2) I was thoroughly confused by that, so I'm guessing I should start looking up some tutorials on EQ stuff. o.o The topic you linked to should keep me busy until I've learned about EQ though. <3

Thanks a ton for the quick help. Those problems were really starting to bug me. D:

1 - You got it!
2 - Here is my favorite tutorial on beginer EQing, it helped me and likely will help you.

Lavender talked about layering snares and I want to add to that a bit, Most of my 'snares' are actualy 2 claps and a snare. I play a strong quick clap first, put a very small delay on the second weaker clap (which usually has more of a release to it) and the snare will come in with ~70ms attack on it so it doesn't play during the claps. Thats my personal method try it out once you get the hang of eqing.

I always use two kicks now, one with a lot of the low end below 200hz and the second I brickwall eq everything below 150.

[NameWTH]

2 - Here is my favorite tutorial on beginer EQing, it helped me and likely will help you.

I opened that in a new tab not realizing it was a video, and when the audio came on I almost crapped myself and dropped my laptop. That was terrifying. @_@
Thanks for the video. :D Can't watch it right away but I'll keep it open for myself to watch it when I have the time. ;o

Also, adding a scream filter gives a nice growl effect. Play around with the scream and resonance knobs, the higher the screechier.

I use that with my bass lines yeah. ;o Not sure why I didn't think about turning up the scream when I use higher octaves. o.o I'll try that out, thanks. <3


I was going to type something else and then I fell asleep for 3 seconds (my face hitting my keyboard kinda woke me up :l) and now I don't remember what it was. D:

Thanks again for the help everypony. <3 Hopefully I'll have some time to try everything out tomorrow.

[Lavender_Harmony]

I always use two kicks now, one with a lot of the low end below 200hz and the second I brickwall eq everything below 150.

I've heard you can also layer closed hi-hat samples on kicks to give them more of a click to the very start of the attack. Haven't tried it yet, but It's a popular technique.

[the4thImpulse]

I've heard you can also layer closed hi-hat samples on kicks to give them more of a click to the very start of the attack. Haven't tried it yet, but It's a popular technique.

I tried this once a long time ago and didn't get the result I was looking for but I know a lot more know so its worth another try. I'm also currently experimenting with multiple synths playing the same chords, its a lot of work but I have gotten some cool combinations.

[Versilaryan]

For that specific sound, if you listen closely, the high sound is pretty pure. Absolutely no grit on that high synth, and in fact, it sounds like it's got a lot of reverb on it, too. Great example of a really cool thing you can do in sound design. =D Tombstone had that high sound layered with another really low, gritty sound. That's where all the dirt is from -- a bass three octaves below it.

It's really hard to make basses that can move out of their "sweet spot" in Massive. My only advice is to keep trying, try having at least one oscillator an octave below what you think is necessary (to get extra grit -- you can EQ it out and replace it with a sub bass later), and NEVER use Modern Talking.

About the snares and kicks, the guys above me have it right. Layer 'em! For snares, I'll take a clap, one or two snares, and white noise and layer them all together. The clap gives me attack, the snare(s) give me that low-bodied thwack, and then the white noise just pulls everything together and gives that electronic snare sound.

Same for kicks. I'll either use a heavy metal kick or a hi-hat for the attack (depending on the sound I want), one or two kicks for an acoustic thump, and then a low 808 or 909 kick to tie the whole thing together. Play around with envelopes for your samples as well as EQ. On samples you don't want the attack in, make the sample's attack time greater. EQ out the absolute lowest frequencies on your kicks so the 808 can shine through more without being so loud. Stuff like that.

[NameWTH]

On my iPod so I'm probably going to randomly give up on typing halfway through. =P

Just listened to the song again and yeah, not sure how I didn't notice the higher sound was relatively clean. o.o

And what exactly does Modern Talking do? What makes it so evil? I've never used it but I've wondered since I got the Knife Party EP. ;o

Also, when you're layering these samples, do they all run through the same volume channel or do you run each one through a separate channel? And if they're separate do you sidechain (I think that's the word - where you run it through a second channel for more volume? Maybe I'm wrong about what that is, not sure) any of them?

[Versilaryan]

It's just a crutch new producers use because it's so easy to modulate. And it's got a /really/ distinctive sound, so the instant you modulate that wavetable, it's fairly easy to tell. And it's got a really narrow sweet spot -- if you go too low, it just sounds like mud, and if you go too high, it loses all of its grit. There are better waveforms to get a dirty sound with.

I'm not sure how to do it on FL, so you might want to ask an FL user. I make heavy use of Ableton's drum rack, which doesn't have a direct parallel in FL, as far as I know. >.> I like to put effects on the different samples, and then effects on the whole sound sometimes. Not sure how to do that in FL, aside from devoting an entire project just to each sample and then exporting them. There's got to be an easier way.

Of course, if you don't want to put effects on any individual samples, they all go in the same volume channel where you can slap effects on all of them at once. Compress them together or add distortion, whatever.

The word you're looking for is sending. =P I do that for parallel compression, but nothing else, really. It's not a necessary part of drum layering.

[Lavender_Harmony]

And what exactly does Modern Talking do? What makes it so evil? I've never used it but I've wondered since I got the Knife Party EP. ;o

It's considered the Comic Sans of modern electronic music production, essentially.

[NameWTH]

Ah. Guess it's a good thing I hadn't gotten around to trying that one out yet, then. =P

Not sure how to do that in FL, aside from devoting an entire project just to each sample and then exporting them. There's got to be an easier way.

Since I haven't used EQ yet I'm not 100% sure if this is right, but I think you have to run each sample through its own channel on the mixer if you want to use effects on individual samples.

Though I'm actually wondering if it's worth switching to Ableton? Is it significantly better than FL Studio, or could I get the same results out of either one (in terms of the overall song, not just the drum track)?

The word you're looking for is sending. =P I do that for parallel compression, but nothing else, really. It's not a necessary part of drum layering.

Yeah, that's the one. ;o I generally use it to get my kick volume up without messing up the rest of the sound. Maybe that's just me not knowing how to use a volume knob, but oh well, it seems to work.

Though in that case, what would sidechaining be? Since I've heard a few times that it's important. o.o

[soup2504]

Though I'm actually wondering if it's worth switching to Ableton? Is it significantly better than FL Studio, or could I get the same results out of either one (in terms of the overall song, not just the drum track)?

Abelton has a couple features that FL doesn't have(and I can't remember them for the life of me) but it really isn't too much. And the interface is a bit harder to get used to than FL Studio.

But if you're a VST person, FL wins hands down.

[the4thImpulse]

Though I'm actually wondering if it's worth switching to Ableton? Is it significantly better than FL Studio, or could I get the same results out of either one (in terms of the overall song, not just the drum track)?

Abelton has a couple features that FL doesn't have(and I can't remember them for the life of me) but it really isn't too much. And the interface is a bit harder to get used to than FL Studio.

But if you're a VST person, FL wins hands down.

I started with FL and loved every bit of it but then I wanted to do more live/production hybrid stuff so I decided to switch to ableton. It took me 5 months to be real confident with ableton and now I can't even look back at fl. I find it way easier/faster to do anything in ableton then when I used FL. I really love the channel system they have and how you route audio through sends and other audio tracks, it just makes sense to me.

[NameWTH]

Doesn't FL Studio have a channel system with sends as well? Or is that something different?

[Versilaryan]

Sidechaining is when one signal affects another signal. So the most common thing you'll see is sidechain compression, where a compressor will compress more when a different signal goes off. It's how to get that pumping/breathing pads on the offbeats of house music, and it's used in mixing as well, to make things stand out more without actually increasing anything's volume. And some fancypants people sidechain vocals to a delay's volume, so that the delay happens more at the ends of phrases and not at the beginnings.

FL does have a channel system with sends. Just enable sends (which is done automatically with the four dedicated send channels) and then raise/lower the send knob that appears.

[NameWTH]

Oh, okay. Guess I'll learn more about sidechaining while I'm learning about EQ then. ;o

Is sending it through a second insert channel the same thing as using sends, or is that somewhat different?

Sorry to ask so many questions, I tend to get obsessively curious as soon as I start learning new stuff. o.o