Censorship Bills and Everything Else

[MiuMiuChuu]

As we all probably know there has been an on-going protest against SOPA and PIPA Internet Censorship Bills. I don't live in the US, so I have no exact idea what it exactly is or what has been going on from its emergence up until this day. The obvious thing is, as a person who relies on internet services based on US, the protest is quite loud.

Probably it reaches its peak on the internet recently as the big sites such as wikipedia and google are "blacking out".

And since wikipedia is blacking out today as a form of protest, only pages relating to this issue are available for access. One of them is this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act

This reminds me to the fact that we, as a community who makes music inspired or based on a copyrighted material, we could be affected by this.

This might be only a boring discussion engaged by your clueless (and curious) foreigner friend. But what do you guys think, especially those of you who live in the US? Probably you can explain the whole process of this policy and then give your thoughts about it.

For those who don't like I am, do you have an opinion about this? Could this also be a global issue? Protestors are convincing this could happen since most of global and general websites are based in the US.

And relating to what we are doing as fan-musicians, how do you think we should react?

TL;DR SOPA and PIPA are censoring stuff. Thoughts?

[Tiaaaaa]

It's bad. I'm not sure there's anyone here who doesn't think so (although I've been wrong before). If you're interested in doing some research on it, other people have said it much better than I can: http://vimeo.com/31100268

But then again I also think the DMCA went too far, so maybe I'm a little biased.

I think the big problem here isn't SOPA, though. I don't think SOPA has much of a chance of passing at this point. PIPA on the other hand has gotten a lot less attention and I'm a little concerned it has a better chance of passing because of it. But what I'm really worried about is what happens after SOPA is defeated. Companies that profit off of copyright and want the internet censored want something stronger than the DMCA (which like i said I already think is too strong). But there's a pretty good chance of the next piece of legislation passing because SOPA and PIPA are so bad. In fact, some portions of the internet believe that the reason SOPA and PIPA are so bad is so that the next bill they try to pass doesn't sound as bad. We need to remember that once SOPA is defeated, the battle isn't over. Businesses will continue to try and limit what we can and can't do on the internet, and we always need to be ready to stop them from doing so.

[Tephnos]

PIPA and SOPA were in earlier forms, both passed in 1993 and 2001 (I think?)

The supreme court ruled them unconstitutional and threw them out. The same will probably happen again.

It's not really businesses as a whole, it's just old Hollywood refusing to update for the modern age.

[Navron]

Good points!

I personally don't think many people realize how bad SOPA or PIPA really are, judging from how just now people are getting wind of it, while others (such as myself) have been sending letters for months and follow the issue closely.

I don't deny there will likely be another bill proposed, but I don't think SOPA or PIPA were intended to be the, "bad examples," so people are more likely to be in favor of lesser legislation. I think proof of that is in the fact that SOPA and PIPA both tried to get pushed through without others noticing. They didn't have press on it, they tried to silence opponents of it by blocking them from expressing their opinions, and so on.

Basically it was a covert bill that happened to get discovered, and thankfully, it will unlikely pass.

I do however, want a note about which senators and congressmen actually support these bills. I think the entire internet should know who supported the blatant oppression of free speach, so these officials never get elected again.

[Tephnos]

The fact of the matter is, most senators don't even know what the bill is actually about. It's stupid.

Recently a "Read the bills act" was introduced. It would force senators and congressmen to read the bills before they were allowed to vote on them. It will most likely not pass.

What does that say about the US government?

[Makkon]

Another reason why I live in Utah. The politicians here seem to know what they're doing.

[CommandSpry]

Recently a "Read the bills act" was introduced. It would force senators and congressmen to read the bills before they were allowed to vote on them. It will most likely not pass.

Wait, the senators and congressmen in the U.S.A don't have to read what they vote on? Eh, I have even lesser of an opinion of U.S Politics, and the level I had before was way below respectful already..

About the bill, I don't think that SOPA and PIPA are the last bills to come if they are not accepted, I agree with Tia, this might be a diversion. After all, I haven't heard about PIPA until today, I only heard about SOPA; looks like it's working. They'll use these bills to attract all the attention in order to get another bill with similar proportions to pass..

I think the fact that major websites, one of the biggest being Wikipedia, actually blacked out their website in support of the Anti-SOPA movement, is a good way of making them aware that we do not want this, and I think that only by showing them actually how dependent of the internet we (and them) all are everyday, they'll see that they can't change it this way. Even though I really needed to get something from Demonoid today, aaaaaaaaaargggghhhhhhhhhhh ^^

[Dr_Dissonance]

Fun Fact: If you turned off your javascript during the blackout, you could browse Wikipedia freely!

But yeah, we've had a few equivalents in Australia before...everytime it returns it's rejected...

So hopefully, American politicians see the light and do the same! Because I can guarantee it will keep coming back, unfortunately...

[Likonan]

These bills irritate me so. The Internet with all its ups and downs is supposed to be free and allow any kind of creativity. The world would be much duller if these bills are passed.

I just have to ask so as to be safe: Now, if I upload a youtube video {PMV for example} that uses music from an artist I like and MLP scenes, am I in any danger of being accused of infrigement (Or the like) if I also write in the video description "This music/scene/series/etc. is copyright/property of X and Y"?

[Freewave]

These bills irritate me so. The Internet with all its ups and downs is supposed to be free and allow any kind of creativity. The world would be much duller if these bills are passed.

I just have to ask so as to be safe: Now, if I upload a youtube video {PMV for example} that uses music from an artist I like and MLP scenes, am I in any danger of being accused of infrigement (Or the like) if I also write in the video description "This music/scene/series/etc. is copyright/property of X and Y"?

those do not do ANYTHING to protect you. the most important thing is does the copyright protector often prosecute or aggressively pursue copyright infringement. in the case of mlp Hasbro has been very generous in only targetting full episode uploaders and allowing clips, samples, songs, and imagery to be allowed there. that's to a degree why mlp is such a huge fanbase is because its been allowed to operate this way. Now if your using another musician's music you are taking some chances. currently the worst thing is youtube will take your video down (too many strikes and they'll delete your account). keep in mind that how you tag and how popular your video is will be a factor on if they even find it. in most cases if you have views in the double or early triple digits they won't even know you are there.

by changing the legislation they can make it more advantegous and quicker to get rid of "fair use" sampling which could cripple youtube freedom more.

[Likonan]

Those do not do ANYTHING to protect you. the most important thing is does the copyright protector often prosecute or aggressively pursue copyright infringement. in the case of mlp Hasbro has been very generous in only targetting full episode uploaders and allowing clips, samples, songs, and imagery to be allowed there. that's to a degree why mlp is such a huge fanbase is because its been allowed to operate this way. Now if your using another musician's music you are taking some chances. currently the worst thing is youtube will take your video down (too many strikes and they'll delete your account). keep in mind that how you tag and how popular your video is will be a factor on if they even find it. in most cases if you have views in the double or early triple digits they won't even know you are there.

by changing the legislation they can make it more advantegous and quicker to get rid of "fair use" sampling which could cripple youtube freedom more.

Darn horse-apples, there's never a clear path.

I would understand their cynicism, but they should have known for at least 5 years since today that most of us post these things as tributes, not trophies of crime (Or am I being too naive?)

[Tephnos]

Whilst PIPA is still active, and SOPA has only been delayed, you can bet that the US will sneak these bills in eventually. They've been bought out for far too much money by the copyright industries just to let them die.

Unfortunately, the European ACTA bill is much, much worse. It'll allow them them to snoop private channels for 'copyright infringement'.

[bartekko]

The main problem with ACTA, is that it's very unspecific, and so, allows way too much.

[Navron]

Not too mention ACTA is international as well.

I'm not into the whole NWO conspiracy theory type stuff, but having an international agreement with many countries acting as one for internet censorship is a BAAADDD idea.

[Versilaryan]

I would understand their cynicism, but they should have known for at least 5 years since today that most of us post these things as tributes, not trophies of crime (Or am I being too naive?)

Yes, they should. In fact, most artists agree on that, too, even wildly popular, successful ones. It's the publishers that don't understand that. They only see dollar signs and not meaningful tributes. And it's the GIANT publishing companies that are pushing for these stupid laws.

[CommandSpry]

I'm not going to be an angel here, but I download illegal stuff all the time, c'mon now, like you all are 100% legit..I'm sure a lot of you are, but c'mon really...Bills like SOPA or ACTA will basically eliminate pirated content, which will make me very unhappy because I don't know about you but I can't spare 60$ whenever I feel like playing a video game to pass time, or to pay 1000$ for a VST and libraries..

on the other hand, these bills will eradicate user made content and that's the really bad side of it. If I'm going to be brutally honest, I'm against these Bills 50% for user made content, and 50% for free stuff. Don't act as if you are not used to getting free stuff.

Feel free to hate on me now

[Navron]

The ethics behind piracy in general is a very gray area.

On one hand, I feel if you want to enjoy something, such as a video game, music album, etc, then you should buy it to support the artists who made it.

On the other hand, some programs are exuberantly overpriced, because they're made for professional artists and studios.

For example, take Boujou, a 3d motion tracking program. It costs $10,000.

Why?

Because it's used by professional movie studios that make big budget films. Studios that can afford to have top of the line programs. Compare that $10,000 price tag to other motion tracking programs, such as Syntheyes, which is a few hundred.

The people who end up getting the short end of the stick are the little guys, such as the group of friends that shoot their own indie films for fun, or the aspiring musician that has to shell out hundreds of dollars just for a DAW, and then thousands more for the right instruments to actually make something good.

With that said, my stance is that if you can afford it, buy it. If you can't afford it, well, it doesn't hurt learning the program before you buy it, but regardless, if you continue to use the program and/or think about doing professional work for profit, you should buy it.

There's a big difference between doing non-profit work for fun, and using other people's programs that you stole to actually make money for yourself.

[CommandSpry]

Of course, example? I finally decided to buy CoD4 because it was like 15$ and it's a great value, I did it to support IW although the money also went to Activision to fund more shitty new cod sequels...but still, I'm going to buy BF3, just to support DICE and EA.

[Navron]

Of course, knowing a few of our members (including you Spry), a word of caution:

Don't ever publicly state on a forum, message board, blog, etc. that you pirate software. It brings a bad rep to the forum, makes certain things (ex. Charity Album) more difficult to organize, and generally brings a lot of heat between those that buy and don't buy their programs.

I respect your stance, but be careful how you tread. Forums are often a very thoroughly searched place with investigations, so if there was ever a time you got in trouble, what you said here could be used against you.

Not to mention when it comes to things such as "Balloon Party," or the charity albums, being open about pirating software is a sure way to get you permanently excluded from events like those, because they're making money. Regardless if it's for charity or a good cause, the court won't care, and the punishments for commercial vs non-commercial work via pirated software are drastically worse.

MLR's stance on piracy? We don't support it, nor do we allow the posting and/or discussion of Warez on our forums.

Does this mean everybody here's an angel? No, but it's for everybody's protection.

[CommandSpry]

Roger that, no worries, NO ONE WILL EVER KNOW!

[Tephnos]

Turns out from what I hear, we know SOPA is being pushed again in Febuary, PIPA is coming in the next few days, and now, they're pushing a new bill: OPEN. It basically does the same stuff as the other two.

These three, and ACTA too.

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

[Navron]

I want everybody out of office that's bending over for the RIAA, MPAA, and other companies who are bribing our senators and congressmen with campaign money.

It's political corruption at its finest, and it's in everybody's face.

Once Hollywood stops crapping out horrible, $100,000+ movies, then there might be some legitimate claim to how piracy is, "ruining their business." Until that time though, I can't see the MPAA struggling while they continue to pump out ludicrously expensive movies devoid of any kind of story or creativity.

Anybody know of any sites where it shows who voted in favor or against each bill? I'd love to spread a list around memebase or something showing the whole world who's supporting SOPA.

Obviously the majority of senators don't understand the internet. Perhaps they will when they see their votes drop off next to nothing.

[bartekko]

Best protest


10/10 would attend again

[Navron]

Who was the person holding up the Pinkie banner, and what does it say?

[randomblockfilms]

"ACTA
NEVER!!
REDTUBE
FOREVER"


umm ok? The acta part i agree with but redtube...um.... nah.... ill stick with YouTube. (even if they screw with their layout design every 2 years.)