Down with Molestia and related things (This needs a topic)

[Freewave]

What I'm trying to say is that DWM has a point with the message its sending, but they're going about it entirely the wrong way.

This i agree with. I think they had a legitimate reason to really talk about the issue. When JJ got targetted and it started becoming a witch hunt for his removal I think the reasoning really started to falter and be thrown out the window.

after reading through this thread I've come to a conclusion that a lot of you don't understand the damaging effects something like rape has on someone....

and i agree i don't think most people really do.

[Jokeblue]

I think I agree with pretty much everything Facade has said so far. I'm sure I had more to say than that I simply agree, but I can't remember what.

All I can think of is that he doesn't glorify rape - he really more so uses sexual innuendo for his jokes. Like a lot of shows like Family Guy and South Park and other things like that, it uses a controversial humour with taboo subjects as the butt of his jokes. I'm not saying this is right, and I'm not saying it justifies it. But that just how it is.

There's a lot of humour and comedy which takes its form from going beyond what people think the bounds should be. Though APM doesn't seem to do that, and like I said uses innuendo and sex jokes rather than a "lol rape rape here and a rape rape there here a rape there a rape everywhere a rape rape" kind of structure. And on top of that there's the whole gamer Luna section which is completely different altogether.

Spoiler This is just opinion and thought which doesnt really go to much use in the discussion:

Another thing is that I feel DWM is being done because of the brony fandom seeming like it needs to clear its name of labels like "cloppers" all the time. And because Jj draws a lot if pics of sexy pones, is well known in the fandom, and has a very popular ask blog which features it, Bronies think "het if we can get rid of this guy and his art and all that he does maybe we can feel better about liking ponies because people will see it and think better of us yay"

Like Freewave said its become a witch hunt for Jj because people see what he does and thinks hey this makes Bronies look bad lets get it!

[Facade]

NO RAPE PONY BLOGS BECAUSE RAPE IS BAD and can affect my children , NO DRUG PONY BLOGS because drugs are bad and can affect my children ,NO SEX PONY BLOGS BECAUSE SEX IS BAD and it can affect my children, NO NEGATIVE PONY MUSIC BECAUSE LORD KNOWS WHAT MY KIDS WILL DO AFTER HEARING THAT DREADFUL YELLING AT CATS , AND THAT GODFORSAKEN RAP MUSIC THATS NOTHING BUT SEX, MARES, AND VIOLENCE ,OH LORD THINK OF THE CHILDREN WE MUST REPENT BY GOING TO CHURCH AND Singing Kumbaya My Lord WAITING FOR HIM TO TAKE US AWAY FROM OUR SUFFERING.

congratulations you just made it into my signature

[caprixsnare]

then does that mean that i cant make murder, and torture jokes too? if so im just not ganna make any darkhumorjokes. o_o

[ganondox]

I think I agree with pretty much everything Facade has said so far. I'm sure I had more to say than that I simply agree, but I can't remember what.

All I can think of is that he doesn't glorify rape - he really more so uses sexual innuendo for his jokes. Like a lot of shows like Family Guy and South Park and other things like that, it uses a controversial humour with taboo subjects as the butt of his jokes. I'm not saying this is right, and I'm not saying it justifies it. But that just how it is.

There's a lot of humour and comedy which takes its form from going beyond what people think the bounds should be. Though APM doesn't seem to do that, and like I said uses innuendo and sex jokes rather than a "lol rape rape here and a rape rape there here a rape there a rape everywhere a rape rape" kind of structure. And on top of that there's the whole gamer Luna section which is completely different altogether.

Spoiler This is just opinion and thought which doesnt really go to much use in the discussion:

Another thing is that I feel DWM is being done because of the brony fandom seeming like it needs to clear its name of labels like "cloppers" all the time. And because Jj draws a lot if pics of sexy pones, is well known in the fandom, and has a very popular ask blog which features it, Bronies think "het if we can get rid of this guy and his art and all that he does maybe we can feel better about liking ponies because people will see it and think better of us yay"

Like Freewave said its become a witch hunt for Jj because people see what he does and thinks hey this makes Bronies look bad lets get it!

There definitely is plenty of rape in APM. I think I've read the entire thing, not just the new stuff. This post highlights some examples: http://mikedawson.tumblr.com/post/59163 ... -infernape There is clear difference between sexual innuendo, which is just sex, and molestation and rape, which is like extreme psychological (as well as a degree of physical) torture and sex rolled into one. Regardless of whether or not it's worth hunting that still stands.

[ExoBassTix]

It seems that people here are either very much bothered by the Molestia thing, or don't give a damn about it.
Yet there's this argument going between the two sides.
What good comes from that?

[S.P.P]

I really don't think this is worth debating. Nor is the shitstorm started by DWM justified. It's a group of butthurts getting their panties in a twist because they don't like something. There are a lot of things I don't like, but I don't rally a group and crack out the pitchforks like seriously for fucks sake. I'm not even arguing over in-depth points here, just the fact that the whole thing is just ridiculous. Live and let live, I say.

[caprixsnare]

down with duck
that is all

[ganondox]

I really don't think this is worth debating. Nor is the shitstorm started by DWM justified. It's a group of butthurts getting their panties in a twist because they don't like something. There are a lot of things I don't like, but I don't rally a group and crack out the pitchforks like seriously for fucks sake. I'm not even arguing over in-depth points here, just the fact that the whole thing is just ridiculous. Live and let live, I say.

Well it's a bit more complicated than just people not liking something, it's one thing to persecute something because you don't enjoy it, it's another to persecute something you believe is causing real harm. The latter is what's actually going on, regardless of whether it's really justified or not. It's not simple to explain exactly what the potential harm is, which is preciously why this IS worth debating. The fact you don't think it's worth debating is all the more reason why it's worth debating, if that makes any sense. The shitstorm of over APM itself was unexpected and a bit uncalled for, but it started the debate, which is ultimately the important part. Anyway, it's not just the DWM people who are getting butthurt and feeding to the storm, the other side is doing so as well, which really just helps the DWM side.

[ExoBassTix]

Contrary to popular belief, fictional rape only harms fictional beings.

[ganondox]

Contrary to popular belief, fictional rape only harms fictional beings.

Only fictional beings are raped, but the issue was never the belief that it would actually cause rapes in and of itself. There is a wide range of potential harm that could occur, but I'm not the best one to discuss it.

[S.P.P]

I made an emblem on Black Ops II. Do you guys like it?

[itroitnyah]

Exo is talking about physical harm. In this scenario, he's right. But in this scenario, it's really referring to emotional harm.

[S.P.P]

[Freewave]

But is it fair for people to try to shut down John Joseco's blog or get him off the guest list because some people are upset because of the tone of a few of his cartoon strips from 2011 or 2012? It's not like his blog was just discovered, it's been one of the top ask blogs since the beginning. It's not like he's going full force and is going over the line now in 2013, he's mellowed out and is spending loads of time on Gamer Luna in half the strips currently. It's not like he just got asked to headline bronycon, he's been a guest speaker there for years. A lot of people are suddenly enraged and demanding action to something that's been a part of our community for years. Why should we suddenly demand censorship this week? Are people that bored? Why should he have to answer to a mob that don't even read his tumblr? What's next on the list if people join the bandwagon? Clop artists and grimdark are next to go? Dark themed Music? Shall we eradicate the rest of the community that people might be offended by and destroy creative free speech in the process to make the internet and the brony community a more comfortable place?

[VaporBlaze]

It took me awhile, but I finally found it: http://jaunty-cavalcades.tumblr.com/pos ... account-of Her experience sounds a little extreme, but there is still relevance on a wider scale.

What a tragic story. I feel very sorry for her. But, what exactly does her tragic story (and all others like it) have to do with APM? None of her rapists were inspired by, or had anything to do with APM. They were simply evil people (or maybe they all have an equally emotional story about how they ended up committing such atrocities).

I feel like making a song for DWM trivializes rape culture far more than APM itself.

This best sums up my thoughts on the issue: http://pixelkitties.tumblr.com/post/585 ... i-get-that

[Acsii]

http://www.theawl.com/2013/07/rape-joke ... a-lockwood

[Freewave]

This is a forum. I'd much rather people explain themselves with their own words then link dump offsite and not say anything else on what or why you are posting something. Thanks.

[ganondox]

I made an emblem on Black Ops II. Do you guys like it?

...well, at least you aren't making pictures of Pinkiepony's OC being raped.

Exo is talking about physical harm. In this scenario, he's right. But in this scenario, it's really referring to emotional harm.

Which is why it's a strawman argument. Despite it saying "contrary to common belief", no one really believes that rape comics directly cause physical harm to anyone.

But is it fair for people to try to shut down John Joseco's blog or get him off the guest list because some people are upset because of the tone of a few of his cartoon strips from 2011 or 2012? It's not like his blog was just discovered, it's been one of the top ask blogs since the beginning. It's not like he's going full force and is going over the line now in 2013, he's mellowed out and is spending loads of time on Gamer Luna in half the strips currently. It's not like he just got asked to headline bronycon, he's been a guest speaker there for years. A lot of people are suddenly enraged and demanding action to something that's been a part of our community for years. Why should we suddenly demand censorship this week? Are people that bored? Why should he have to answer to a mob that don't even read his tumblr? What's next on the list if people join the bandwagon? Clop artists and grimdark are next to go? Dark themed Music? Shall we eradicate the rest of the community that people might be offended by and destroy creative free speech in the process to make the internet and the brony community a more comfortable place?

People can try to shutdown his blog for whatever they want. Now, actually shutting down the blog wouldn't be fair. However, the blog isn't going to shutdown. It's not like that would actually benefit them at this point. Anyway who really knows what they are talking about and isn't just escalating the bandwagon would probably realize that's a foolish objective, especially now. Rather, the important part is the discussion. See, culture is a complex dynamic system based on positive feedback.Small components interact to form a larger whole, and a small change can have a potentially large effect. Entertainment reflect ideals, and ideals are reinfornced by entertainment. Many people argue that why is Molestia is being targetted when South Park or whatever do worst. South Park doing it doesn't make it okay. Yes, Molestia is a scapegoat, but everything needs to start somewhere. By sending out the message that people don't think something is okay it can create a ripple effect and ultimately can have real change, not just virtual change. There are studies which have included that yes, rape jokes in entertainment do have an impact on people's perception of rape. I'm completely against censorship and I'm against Molestia being removed, but ultimately the cause isn't about censorship, it's about cultural change, which can happen.

As for why it happened now, it's because now is when Pinkiepony had an issue with it, and her cause snowballed. As for why it snowballed, that can probably be attributed to their being a slow point within the fandom drama, so the DWM stuff took up tumblr space which would normally be occupied by raving about Twilicorn.

It took me awhile, but I finally found it: http://jaunty-cavalcades.tumblr.com/pos ... account-of Her experience sounds a little extreme, but there is still relevance on a wider scale.

What a tragic story. I feel very sorry for her. But, what exactly does her tragic story (and all others like it) have to do with APM? None of her rapists were inspired by, or had anything to do with APM. They were simply evil people (or maybe they all have an equally emotional story about how they ended up committing such atrocities).

I feel like making a song for DWM trivializes rape culture far more than APM itself.

This best sums up my thoughts on the issue: http://pixelkitties.tumblr.com/post/585 ... i-get-that

I was bringing it up for an explanation of rape culture.

[JSynth]

after reading through this thread I've come to a conclusion that a lot of you don't understand the damaging effects something like rape has on someone... I'll leave it at that...

So, I really have been avoiding the DWM fight for as long as possible. I have been hearing reports of death and rape threats from both sides. So, I am glad that I have been able avoid it as long as I have.

But I figured that it would be appropriate to share something that Jitterbug Jive wrote a while back. He is, after all a victim of rape.

The Brony fandom always has to have some sort of shitstorm going on... (Maybe this happens with every fandom though, IDK).

As far as I know, this is the only fandom that is like this.

[ganondox]

after reading through this thread I've come to a conclusion that a lot of you don't understand the damaging effects something like rape has on someone... I'll leave it at that...

So, I really have been avoiding the DWM fight for as long as possible. I have been hearing reports of death and rape threats from both sides. So, I am glad that I have been able avoid it as long as I have.

But I figured that it would be appropriate to share something that Jitterbug Jive wrote a while back. He is, after all a victim of rape.

The Brony fandom always has to have some sort of shitstorm going on... (Maybe this happens with every fandom though, IDK).

As far as I know, this is the only fandom that is like this.

Naw, every fandom is like this to some degree. The sonic fandom is pretty infamous for it's various shitstorms when some canon-breaking crap happens. I guess the brony fandom is fairly unique in terms of internal drama like this, but that's due to how interlocked the brony fandom is, how much power certain fanartists have.

[DerpyGrooves]

Locking this before it can propagate.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Honestly I don't get why this is an issue though.

Rape is bad, it shouldn't be joked about...but on APM is kinda isn't joking about it. Most of the situations just imply SEX not RAPE. At the end of the day the blog is sexual, and Molestia is just Celestia made into something sexual. I know molest is kinda indicative of rape but what the hell else would work as the name?


Also if you're offended by something on the internet, I invite you to join the club and just not look at it. The internet is pretty cool in that you don't have to actually pay any mind to any of its content.

[Circuitfry]

I'm sorry, guys, but I'm keeping the thread closed.

Don't take it out on Grooves, I put him up to all of this and he helped a friend out. I'm the culprit, I stuck my face in the business.

The reason why we are locking the thread is because the whole drama is pretty well and done. The two of us are fatigued, we're completely tired, we're worn out, and we have enough people with negative opinions of us, as it is.

Idk, we were originally just trying to have good intentions and speak out on something and it got really out of hand and we're just trying to back out of all of it. No matter where we are going, though, it's like people can't stop sending hate mail and posting rude and accusatory things and I would hope that the last place to have this kind of attitude about it all is right here in the forums. I feel like I've lost the last safe area, a little bit.

But don't pin anything on Grooves. Everything from start to finish was my idea. I'm responsible for everything.