Fimbulin's Theory Help Thread

[Fimbulin]

Do you want to know how to write out a circle of fifths, or what that even is?

I can show you how it can help you find what chords are allowed in your songs when you are songwriting.


Take C for example. In the key of C, the tonic chord (chord of the key) is C, of course. Any of the five chords touching the C pizza slice are your allowed chords in your song, to put it simply.

Another way to figure out what chords may be used is to count the tonic chord of your key as 1 and count upwards until you get to 4 and 5. In the key of C, tonic is C, which is also 1. F is 4 and is called the pre-dominant, because it precedes the dominant. 5 is G and is the dominant. 6 is always your relative minor to any major key. In this case, it is Aminor. That means any inner slice of your circle of fifths pizza is the relative minor of the chord above it.

So if this makes any sense, I'll address C major:
1 = C
2 = d
3 = e
4 = F
5 = G
6 = a

I'm not going to address the 7 chord at this time, because it sounds like the 5 chord, except it is diminished.

I'll address aminor now:
1 = a

3 = C
4 = d
5 = e
6 = F
7 = G

I left out the 2 chord again, because it is a diminished chord. Not that Bdim isn't a good chord to use, but its really late and I want to finish my thoughts.

Once you get back to 8, it is the same thing as 1 again. 8 notes is a whole octave, right? ;) So this covers all the normal chords for a given key. Any key works with the circle, or just counting your numbers and alphabet if a circle isn't handy. The image I used I just googled.

Now, I've mentioned before that your 4 and 5 are called the pre-dominant and dominant chords. These three chords (with their relative minors) make up a majority of the music we hear today.

I want to talk about how to create these chords and sequence them into music, but I figured I needed to touch this first in case I'll be using terms or ideas that might be foreign to some of you. Right now I'm super tired from being up all day and then working an 8 hour shift, and I need to get some sleep (haha almost 3AM). If you have questions or if I messed up on a rule, feel free to post about it and I'll do my best to correct it and I'll use sleep deprivation as my excuse.

[Fimbulin]

Harmonies.

If you have read my counterpoint guide and understood it, then you will understand this easily. Writing a 4 part harmony (like a string quartet piece, or a hymn or SATB choir arrangement) is like writing 6 different pairs of counterpoint all at once. Most of the same exact rules apply, but there are a few tricks to doing it faster than writing Bass to Tenor, Bass to Alto, then Bass to Soprano, then checking Tenor and Alto, and then Tenor and Soprano, and last checking Alto to Soprano for any errors. That can be extremely time consuming and trust me, it is frustrating to fix an error between two voices only to find you created an error between two other voices.

If you write only triads with the tonic of your chord doubled while following basic chord progressions, then you will have ||5ths and ||8ths on every chord change. That makes for bad compositions and sounds lame. In fact, just one consecutive fifth can ruin a whole song. These mistakes are what most analytical theorists like myself listen for in other people's compositions. Say, for instance, you want to be in on the demo team for 8Dio, and you send them a track that has part-writing errors in it to prove to them that you are worth their resources. Don't expect to get a positive reply, though these people are often super-polite.

One thing you need to learn is your chord inversions. To all you FL studio users out there, inversions are super easy. You just take the lowest note in your 1-3-5 triad and press [ctrl]+UP. That turns your chord into a 3-5-8 (or, as I like to keep things simple, a 3-5-1, because 1 and 8 are an octave apart but otherwise the same note). That makes a first inversion chord.

Almost any genre uses 4 voices (which for genres in EDM this still applies as you will probably have a bass and a pad playing 3 upper voices at once, so 4 voice harmony, or something similar).


Read this. I don't have time to type everything out so I found an excellent online guide. If you have any questions concerning this guide then ask me here and I'll do my best to reply promptly.
http://smu.edu/totw/partwrit.htm

[Conduit]

Have I ever told you how much I love you? Well I do, and this is great. My one other question is what do all the different terms for chords mean (such as diminished or augmented or whatever) and how can you use them to add interest to otherwise boring progressions?

[Fimbulin]

Diminished and augmented chords are talking about how the chords are built. Time to start thinking in triads!
A major chord has a minor third above a major third.
A minor chord has a major third above a minor third.
A diminished chord has a minor third above a minor third. (Use ° in roman numeral chord naming)
An augmented chord has a major third above a major third. (Use + to specify)

Jazz musicians rely on these chords when doing harmonizations on a scale. I said earlier that I wasn't going to address the vii chord in a major key because it sounds like the V chord but is diminished. I'm going to address it now. If we number the notes on the scale as 1 through 7, then the tonic triad would be 1-3-5. The dominant seventh is 5-7-2-4. The vii° would be 7-2-4. Look, it's a minor on top of a minor! It's like the V7 except there is no 5th note, the tonic note of your V chord. That makes it sound like a more "fluffy" chord than a usual dominant when used in a progression. vii° is mostly used to fill the dominant chord's position when it is used. Any other diminished chord created outside of the natural key signature can be used to flourish a phrase, but most part writing rules still apply. Augmented chords are less widely used than diminished chords because they aren't naturally found in any given key due to the sharped 5.

There's a ton of renditions of this classic hymn, and it has more or less diminished and sometimes has augmented chords depending on what version you find.


Pause at :23 and see the sheet music!

[Fimbulin]

The Uses of the Sixth and Seventh Intervals in Horizontal Consonance
A guide by Fimbulin :3

Things you will need to know:
I'm gonna use solfege (Do Re Mi's) for this little guide.
This guide all applies to minor keys including the harmonic minor as well as major keys. I'll note any differences.

If you are writing a single voice song, and you want to sound all pro and keep in key, then here's some guidelines. Don't randomly use La and Ti in a song. Here's what generally sounds the best:
Do-Ti-La-So (in minors, Do-Te-Le-So)
Do-So
Do-Ti-Do
Do-Re-Ti-Do
So-La-Ti-Do (this sequence makes harmonic minor superior to basic minor)
So-Le-Te-Do (minor key only. meh)
So-Do
Here's why. Ti (almost) always aurally pushes back to Do unless it leads directly to Fa and then the dominant interval, So. Fa (almost) always pushes in the same direction that it was approached. If it was approached by a So, then it wants to go to Ti. Ti leads to Do. Very logical and sounds great! Or, you can skip it altogether and go directly from So to Do or Do to So (cadence style!).

If you are writing a multiple voice song, then make sure you follow the part-writing rules for vertical consonance's sake! Every voice should still follow this "standard procedure." When you are using different chords than the tonic, you are going to be using these notes (La and Ti) as general chord notes. Here are some rules for part-writing with this guide in mind:
Your bass and lead should (almost) ALWAYS follow horizontal consonance.
Your inner voices in your chords (NOT lead and NOT bass) are allowed to be "frustrated"...
Frustrated means that you aren't using voice leading rules. Ti would lead to something other than Do, because in chording, inner voices tend to take the non-interesting (but still essential) intervals. For example you are using a dominant chord triad- So-Ti-Re- and want to head towards a tonic chord built Do-Me-Do to create a decent cadence.
Vertical consonance is equally important to horizontal consonance.

You are allowed to break my strict rules and do something like skip Fa and go Do-Ti-So and whatnot, but I'm probably not gonna teach that because generally it's hard to harmonize. I'm not going to answer "why not do it a different way?" but just trust me that most of the time these rules make your voice leading much much better. If you do have a question concerning this, then please ask.

[Sonarch]

Awesome guide!

Also, this thread ought to be preserved before the whole topic gets shut down, has it been reported to be moved to a different one?

[Conduit]

Just got home, so now I can try out some of this stuff! Thanks!!!

[Callenby]

This is a great idea for a thread!

I think it would be nice if you could give a primer on using chromaticism. I'm sure plenty of people would be interested in it, plus it would be good for me to brush up my own knowledge of it.

[Fimbulin]

Thanks Callenby! I owe the idea of a help thread to my freshman theory teacher here at college. He would do a "Friday evening help class" that isn't required. Anybody that shows up- theory student or not- gets to join in on the discussions. Anybody could ask about anything they wanted to theory-wise and he would always know the answers.

Chromaticism was originally a side affect of creating "moving" chord structures by using secondary dominants and key changes. They are fairly easy to use that way and always sound stellar. If any of that makes sense to you, then you already should feel inspired! :)
Also, on full chromatic chord progressions, another easy way of creating chromatic progressions is by borrowing heavily from Jazz musicians and doing chromatic diminished chords progressing by half steps with a simplistic bassline. Once you try it out it makes sense.

Those are probably the two most used methods.

And nice profile pic btw. ;)

[Callenby]

Thanks Callenby! I owe the idea of a help thread to my freshman theory teacher here at college. He would do a "Friday evening help class" that isn't required. Anybody that shows up- theory student or not- gets to join in on the discussions. Anybody could ask about anything they wanted to theory-wise and he would always know the answers.

Chromaticism was originally a side affect of creating "moving" chord structures by using secondary dominants and key changes. They are fairly easy to use that way and always sound stellar. If any of that makes sense to you, then you already should feel inspired! :)
Also, on full chromatic chord progressions, another easy way of creating chromatic progressions is by borrowing heavily from Jazz musicians and doing chromatic diminished chords progressing by half steps with a simplistic bassline. Once you try it out it makes sense.

Those are probably the two most used methods.

I had an idea for a similar sort of thread but didn't feel I was knowledgeable enough to actually sustain it. It's good that someone is doing it.

And thanks for the prompt reply. I get the sense that a lot of people are unsure how to incorporate things like non-chord tones, so specific examples may help. Just an idea, though.

I've noticed that it's a good idea to study jazz even though I don't plan on ever writing for it. I think most people would benefit from it, actually. Jazz and improvisation in general are helpful ways of viewing music through a different lens.

And nice profile pic btw. ;)

Credit goes to this fine artist.

[Fimbulin]

I get the sense that a lot of people are unsure how to incorporate things like non-chord tones, so specific examples may help. Just an idea, though.

I didn't put specific examples into this because it should be fairly easy to understand with a small amount of theory knowlege. What I did do is explain where to use chromatic tones as chord tones. It does require stepping out of your preferred key signature, but plenty of songs do that. It's like putting an A major chord into a song in the key of G. The A contains a C# note which is an augmented fourth from G, but works because it sounds amazing put next to a D chord (because it is D's dominant chord- so its called a secondary dominant because it is out of key). Chromatically your chord progression would be something like G-C-A-D-G.

Ok, so I did just ramble off into a specific example. It's so much fun though!

[Sonarch]

I've been wondering about this for awhile, is there a way from a music theory standpoint to figure out the chords of a song? I'm just wondering because I play guitar sometimes and I'd love to be able to figure out the chords that go with some of my favorite songs from the fandom, but I haven't had much success with the "play along with it and see what sounds good" approach. So if I found the notes to the melody of a song, could I write them out and figure out the chords that work with them?

[Fimbulin]

I've been wondering about this for awhile, is there a way from a music theory standpoint to figure out the chords of a song? I'd love to be able to figure out the chords that go with some of my favorite songs, but I haven't had much success with the "play along with it and see what sounds good" approach.

Analytical theory bro.

But really what you need is aural skill (ear) training combined with analytical theory; both together makes figuring a single melody line into complete chords second nature. It's generally true what most theorists tell people- "A musician is only as good as their ear is." I know plenty of guitarists that can strum chords instinctively, and they don't have theory training at all. From a music theory standpoint you would need to practice your aural skills. One thing you can do is make aural practice into a meditation/singing game when you listen to baroque music. Listen to an entire swirling passage and try to sing back the melody line. Baroque music is great for that because it is theoretically correct and the melodies aren't too familiar or memorable. When you sing back the melodies try to think of the fundamental sounds in the chords you would naturally hear with the melody. The best part is when you play the guitar in public, you have no obligation to sing. ;) Singing back melodies makes you better at choosing the best chords for your guitar (or any polyphonic instrument in that case).

Analytical theory by itself is great if you have the sheet music, but if you don't then your ear will have to "think it" into mental existence.

I am a classical guitarist myself, and I practice by playing not only melodies or chords to unfamiliar songs, but also fingerpicking complete 3 part harmonies in tempo with the music by anticipating where the song is going.


P.S. Being able to sing back a melody and harmonize it in your head is a 100,000% more useful skill than trying to write melodies out and harmonize on paper.

[Sonarch]

I've been wondering about this for awhile, is there a way from a music theory standpoint to figure out the chords of a song? I'd love to be able to figure out the chords that go with some of my favorite songs, but I haven't had much success with the "play along with it and see what sounds good" approach.

Analytical theory bro.

But really what you need is aural skill (ear) training combined with analytical theory; both together makes figuring a single melody line into complete chords second nature. It's generally true what most theorists tell people- "A musician is only as good as their ear is." I know plenty of guitarists that can strum chords instinctively, and they don't have theory training at all. From a music theory standpoint you would need to practice your aural skills. One thing you can do is make aural practice into a meditation/singing game when you listen to baroque music. Listen to an entire swirling passage and try to sing back the melody line. Baroque music is great for that because it is theoretically correct and the melodies aren't too familiar or memorable. When you sing back the melodies try to think of the fundamental sounds in the chords you would naturally hear with the melody. The best part is when you play the guitar in public, you have no obligation to sing. ;) Singing back melodies makes you better at choosing the best chords for your guitar (or any polyphonic instrument in that case).

Analytical theory by itself is great if you have the sheet music, but if you don't then your ear will have to "think it" into mental existence.

I am a classical guitarist myself, and I practice by playing not only melodies or chords to unfamiliar songs, but also fingerpicking complete 3 part harmonies in tempo with the music by anticipating where the song is going.


P.S. Being able to sing back a melody and harmonize it in your head is a 100,000% more useful skill than trying to write melodies out and harmonize on paper.

Alright, i'll work on that!

[Callenby]

Hey Fim, it might be cool if you added some good theory sites in your original post for people to browse. If you want I could help you with that - I know some good general places but also some more niche ones.

[Fimbulin]

Hey Fim, it might be cool if you added some good theory sites in your original post for people to browse. If you want I could help you with that - I know some good general places but also some more niche ones.

Send me a PM! :)

[Sonarch]

I'm not sure if this is really a music theory question or not, but i'm having trouble with writing music. Right now i'm trying to write a simple piano... thing using a really basic chord progression so I can practice the actual writing and worry less about how theoretically correct it is, but the problem I run into is the structuring of the song. When I write stuff it tends to be really random with nothing really connecting the melody to itself, and I figure the way to do that is to have a certain motif or bit that repeats at times within the song, but I have trouble with that sort of thing. Perhaps a chorus-type thing that returns at various times in the song, but how often does that come in? I suppose part of it is that there's a lot of flexibility with how it can be structured, and i'm not really sure how or where I could go with it. So i'm curious on how I might make my compositions more structured, especially with something completely instrumental. Any advice on that?

[Fimbulin]

Of course I can help. I'm not gonna teach musical forms which are included in most music theory classes. I'll teach you some basics though. Say you have a melody that you want to return to. Your first section of your song up to your first cadence we will call section A. Then you can keep writing new music and create a section we can call B. You can make the B section in a closely related key or a relative minor or just keep it the same. You can then return to your A section if you want. You can create patterns like this: A B A ; A B A C A ; A B C B A

If you want to create more interesting music you can add excitement to your music by using small fragments of your A melody in the other sections of your music-- just make it so it's recognizable although you can make it very short or lay on different notes and chords. You can twist your melodies up and make what theorists call "prime" sections which they mark by something like this: A B A1 B1 A -- with the 1's being "primes". We call these "A Prime", "B Prime" etc.. As long as it is the same chord progression or the melody is still there or augmented however you want it can still be "A". You can create sections of your music that blend together and always return to something either familiar or vaguely familiar (my favorite).

An example of using this method can end up like this:
A B A1 B1 C A2
A (half cadence into B)
-- B (key change into the dominant chord that the half cadence ended on)
----- A1 (same melody as "A" in the relative minor of the previous key)
-------- B1 (key change)
-------------C (brand new material with vague memories of "A" in the original key)
---------------A2 (end of the song. It can progress to a good ending)

I haven't taught any of the terms for the forms that the classical musicians followed (such as passacaglia, chaconne, rondo, sonata) because I don't think they are terribly important to know as a songwriter. Just knowing the basic structure of the skeletons is enough to get the creative juices flowing.

[Sonarch]

Of course I can help. I'm not gonna teach musical forms which are included in most music theory classes. I'll teach you some basics though. Say you have a melody that you want to return to. Your first section of your song up to your first cadence we will call section A. Then you can keep writing new music and create a section we can call B. You can make the B section in a closely related key or a relative minor or just keep it the same. You can then return to your A section if you want. You can create patterns like this: A B A ; A B A C A ; A B C B A

If you want to create more interesting music you can add excitement to your music by using small fragments of your A melody in the other sections of your music-- just make it so it's recognizable although you can make it very short or lay on different notes and chords. You can twist your melodies up and make what theorists call "prime" sections which they mark by something like this: A B A1 B1 A -- with the 1's being "primes". We call these "A Prime", "B Prime" etc.. As long as it is the same chord progression or the melody is still there or augmented however you want it can still be "A". You can create sections of your music that blend together and always return to something either familiar or vaguely familiar (my favorite).

An example of using this method can end up like this:
A B A1 B1 C A2
A (half cadence into B)
-- B (key change into the dominant chord that the half cadence ended on)
----- A1 (same melody as "A" in the relative minor of the previous key)
-------- B1 (key change)
-------------C (brand new material with vague memories of "A" in the original key)
---------------A2 (end of the song. It can progress to a good ending)

I haven't taught any of the terms for the forms that the classical musicians followed (such as passacaglia, chaconne, rondo, sonata) because I don't think they are terribly important to know as a songwriter. Just knowing the basic structure of the skeletons is enough to get the creative juices flowing.

That helps a lot, thanks Fim!