DJ Alex S. got boomtubed

[SuperGiantRobot]

http://www.equestriadaily.com/2011/12/d ... utube.html

[Navron]

I find it rather troubling that trolls would take down a channel for a professional level artist simply because he has a few songs dedicated to MLP.

[SuperGiantRobot]

I don't see how they could. Ingram himself has given re-mixers his blessing; hell, he's even requested a remix of The Pony Everypony Should Know.

[bartekko]

I don't see how they could.

trolls

That's how they could.
There's a saying "Haters Gonna Hate"
this applies to all the groups/communities:

Teachers gonna teach
Bronies gonna pony
Players gonna play
Trolls gonna troll <---- This is what we're looking for.

wikipedia has an article on Troll:

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

While taking down a youtube channel isn't "posting", it's an action provoking an emotional response.

Most of the trolls are 6-15 age, male, which is one of the reasons Bronies are under heavier fire from trolls than other communities.

Uploading show's episodes to internet is more or less illegal, and that's why hasbro couldn't help us even if they wanted to, on which I'm not sure.

Daniel Ingram could have requested a remix, but I think that copyright law makes mr. Ingram pass the rights to hasbro as soon as episode is aired.


tl;dr version: Trolls gonna Troll, which you can't stop

[Makkon]

This is how.

Quoted from EQD:

Okay, everybody, stop raging at Youtube and Hasbro for a bit, and use the thing in between your ears. You are ragin at the wrong people here.
Hasbro has obviously nothing to do with this particular takedown.

Youtube is legally obligated under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), to take down any video when an infringement of copyright is alleged. Youtube can not legally review or evaluate any such allegations, lest they loose their "safe harbor" status.

Safe harbor means that Youtube is not considered liable for the content third parties upload to their website, because Youtube claims to be a mere passive platform for users to upload to. If they started arbiting the content, they would no longer be passive, and would loose the safe harbor status.

The process under DMCA is roughly like this:
1. Someone files a takedown notice with Youtube.
2. Youtube is obligated to take the video down.
3. The person who uploaded the video can now file a counter-claim to Youtube.
4. Youtube passes the counter claim, along with contact information to the party who claimed copyright.
5. The alleged copyright holder can then use that information to sue the uploader for copyright infringement.
6. If the alleged copyright holder does not sue (because the copyright claim was bogus), the taken-down video is restored.

So, even if the copyright claim is competely laughable and obviously fake, Youtube must take the video down, or loose their legal protection wholesale.

What these trolls are doing, is abusing the DMCA-system. They are filing false copyright claims, to force Youtube to take down certain videos.

So, if you want to rage, rage at who deserve it: The trolls, and the american politicians, who instituted sweeping laws like DMCA, which give huge freedoms and vast abilites to companies.
And while you are raging at DMCA, ever heard of SOPA? SOPA makes DMCA look tame! So go rage at your congressmen and senators, as well.

I really wish you luck, Alex. Whatever happens, don't let it get you down, because then they've won. Keep your spirits up, and keep acting like a true brony. We need more people like you, who are not only talented but also genuinely nice and considerate. You'll pull through this.

[Freewave]

I tell yeah it could be bad times for bronies if this is the tip of the iceberg. This isn't even a real claim...

[Bronytech]

Yeah. I've had this happen to me on other channels. Sadly, it's a pretty easy way to troll, being as anyone can basically click and claim copyright. Then it takes a bunch of effort to undo the damage. Basically anyone who doesn't like you can do it, and of course nobody is going to have the resources or commitment to actually pursue legal action against false claims. This is one of the annoying things about putting your stuff on youtube.

Luckily, seems like whoever this is, already has like 3000 subs on their new channel.

Damned youtube trolls.

[SuperGiantRobot]

Original account is back up. So's FluttershyElsa's

[Navron]

FluttershyElsa got trolled as well?

[Makkon]

I am extremely happy to hear this!

[SuperGiantRobot]

Gotta say, I hate eurobeat with a passion that give me sunburn, so I didn't really miss FluttershyElsa to any great degree, but he was trolled out, so even if I'm not a fan of eurobeat fair is fair...

[Navron]

FluttershyElsa has some eurobeat, but his channel also has some very great PMVs, pony polkas, etc.

His channel was actually the first brony channel I really started following.

[Makkon]

Looks like they got one of my videos. The Charity Album teaser, in fact.

So I was reading the DMCA Counter-Notification, and this really alarmed me.

After we receive your counter-notification, we will forward it to the party who submitted the original claim of copyright infringement. Please note that when we forward the counter-notification, it includes your personal information. By submitting a counter-notification, you consent to having your information revealed in this way. We will not forward the counter-notification to any party other than the original claimant

So any suggestions on what I should do?

[InC]

Sadness. And pity. At my own surprise, seeing this didn't even anger me the slightest. The simple thought of how miserable must be the life of the people behind this... But we can't let that get us down. Ben, this was just a teaser, your own privacy is much more important, who knows how far they could go. Can you get on Skype ?

[Freewave]

It depends on how much of your personal information does google/ytube have?. If you've kept your real info apart from facebook and never registered with accurate info, not a lot hopefully. If so....that's the problem with combining your real life and your more anonymous internet persona. Likely your uploading ip will be provided.

So were the videos removed and the account is ok? Could they be re-upped under a new account?

[Makkon]

InC: I have work in a few minutes, I'm really sorry man! But I'll be online in about 4 hours (that's probably getting really late for you, sorry man).

DJ-Pon3: They ask for my mailing address, which is worrisome.

[InC]

No worries, we can talk about this later. I should be up in 8-9 hours anyway, I'll try to catch you by then as usual. If they're not using the info from your Youtube channel, I'm no expert on counter-claiming, but they can't tell if you told them a fake address and name unless they actually try to sue you, can they ?

[Navron]

I say screw the counter-claim. Remember, we made the charity album with the limitation that people shouldn't use samples from the show to avoid potential legal issues.

The end result is 100% our work, and in court, would clearly fall under our favor because it doesn't contain copyrighted material, and of course, it's on sale simply for the purposes of raising money for charity.

So in the end, if you wish to, you can sue for false copyright infringement, and I'm certain you are pretty much guaranteed to win that suit, especially if you call for additional charges based on lost profits during the time in which the video is down.

Of course, if any of the tracks do use samples from the show, or anything not comprised of their work, then this would not be an advised course of action.

I'm thinking a nice lawsuit that bankrupts one of their own would make the NCF reconsider their little vendetta. And I would be perfectly fine with that, because if you think about it.

- This limits the amount of pre-release viewership.
- That in turn, limits the amount of sales.
- Ultimately, that means less money going towards children's cancer research.
- Less money towards children's cancer research, even if in the few hundreds of dollars, could mean the difference between life or death for a child.

So in essence, these trolls have gone too far, and are not only attacking the fandom, but they are hindering a charity effort that could potentially save children's lives.

Of course, there's the downside that this troll is probably a kid, and a lawsuit would financially ruin his/her entire family, however considering the implications above, I would lose no sleep over that course of action.

[SuperGiantRobot]

Well that's an asshole move even for trolls. It's a charity album , for fuck's sake.

[Navron]

And just to let you know Makkon, if you do choose to pursue legal action, let me know the court date. I'll gladly stroll in wearing my military service uniform to testify on your behalf.

[Makkon]

What do you guys think, is this all worth the effort of taking this to court? We have a solid case.

[Tiaaaaa]

Hold on a moment. What they did was a terribly thing, taking down a video promoting an album that will be used to donate to charity. But I'm not sure taking it to court is the best idea. In fact, I'm not even sure taking it to court is possible. They won't press charges, that much is true. Whether or not you are able to I don't know (I'm terrible where it comes to intricacies of laws and what not).

But consider this: what they want is a reaction. The bigger the reaction the better. And taking them to court is one hell of a reaction. I'm not going to say that you shouldn't do it, because I'm not really involved. It's your choice in the end, but if you are going to do this then be sure it's what you want to do, and be even more sure that you CAN do it, that it won't just end up making you look foolish and thus that much more bait. The biggest question is: 'Is it worth it?' If the answer is yes then I would say go for it, but be 100% sure before you do anything.

[Navron]

Good solid points there Tiaaa (Someday I'll get all the A's).

There are definitely pros and cons for both courses of action. On one hand, sometimes cyber bullies need to face the stone hard lesson of what they do. One troll from the UK was sentenced to prison for trolling/harassing the family of a deceased love one.

Let's face the facts with the copyright flagging. Up until now, nobody could really do anything to trolls for flagging MLP videos, because for the most part, the videos weren't our material, and obviously going to court to sue somebody for making a false copyright claim against material you don't own in the first place would be...unwise.

Because of this, the trolls have used this against us, knowing we can't take them to court, except they got carried away, and put themselves in a position where they could be taken to court.

I personally feel this situation is out of all our boundaries, but that doesn't eliminate it as an option. What that means is you should look up a lawyer that specializes in copyright law, and has a solid record. Even if you don't want to pursue legal action in the end, talking to a lawyer about the situation could help paint a picture of how solid your case would be, what types of damages and claims you can file for, and any potential legal repercussions such as an appeal. I'd also ask if there's a law specifically regarding the deliberate hampering or interference with a charity, because my gut feeling tells me there is. Hell, in a combat area, hampering a rescue or humanitarian effort is typically an authorization to use lethal force. Not to mention other countries have laws regarding the interference of a charitable effort.

As for the cons, you have the bigger publicity, the potential money involved, etc. Going to court is not cheap for any party, but if you talk to a lawyer beforehand, and you have a very high chance of being ruled in favor, you can manage that risk.

As for publicity, you should ask what kind of settlement you might be looking at. If you go to court and they rule in your favor, but you receive a settlement that's easily forked over by the offending party, then their little organization gets more attention and respect amongst the trolling community. However, if you receive a settlement that severely sets back the offending party, then that sends a clear message to the trolls that might make them think twice of their chosen pastime.

So yeah, I'd definitely call a lawyer and get all the ins and outs of what this case could entitle. You don't have to organize anything to simply discuss the potential case.

Hell, we certainly aren't the first YT community to get attacked by false copyright trolls. Perhaps you might even find a lawyer that's dealt with a similar case?

Also, regarding publicity, people love justice being dealt. They especially love reading stories about trolls getting hammered, because nearly everybody online deals with them. So there's also the potential that the press could get involved over the case, in which case your average internet user would see a story about a group of Bronies that took a troll to court, in defense of a charity project.

Many people dislike bronies, and obviously many people have certain stereotypes in mind when they hear our name, but for the most part, I think anybody seeing us willing to go all the way in defense of a children's cancer charity, would be more open-minded to the concept that not all bronies are obsessed fans of the show that post pony stuff everywhere, and would overall bring the fandom into a more positive light.

Charities are also kind of a bandwagon that companies like to hop on. We know Hasbro is a very charitable company, and if they get wind of an actual case, who knows? You may find Hasbro willing to support the defense of charity by a fandom they helped mold and support.

A lot of potential ways this could go. I'd definitely get in touch with a lawyer.

[TheSunAndTheRainfall]

What NavyBrony said. You gotta really weigh all the pros and cons and decide if it's worth going through all the hassle (because it will be a huge hassle if you decide to go through with it). But yeah, better discuss it with someone who really knows their way around this sort of thing, i.e. a lawyer, before anything else.

[Makkon]

Thank you very much for your help, Ben! I'll certainly talk to a lawyer about this.

But for now, I think Gandhi had the right idea. Passive resistance. I'm not interested in fighting this one. I'll press charges if they target the second charity album teaser when it's released, but otherwise this is a pointless game, and the only way to win is to not play.
Sorry to disappoint.

and a scripture for good measure
“But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”

Matthew 5:39

(no offense intended for anyone in quoting that).