Brony Musician Network Database Idea

[ghelded_kultz]

Okay, I have an idea for a creating a database of brony musicians and songs meant to show the interactions within the brony music scene. Hypothetically the goal of this is having a web be dynamically generated from the database to show such interactions. Of course, I know next to nothing about creating databases and working with them, so this is all just a theoretical outline here. Here is the current plan:

First, the data base is based around entries which come in one of four data types. These are artists, songs, groups, and compilations. I will first go into details about the types in general, and then go into details about each type.

First, each type will store the same general data. These are
*Index: Number
*Type : Number
*Name : String
*MajorContributors: Array (I guess it will be an array of numbers to direct it to the index of other entries)
*MinorContributors: Array (together MajorContributors and MinorContributors make up Contributors)
*Date : Date object (so I guess it will be a group of numbers)
And possibly
*Picture : Image (is that a legit data type?)

Index - Is used by the database to work with the entries, it's not directly related to the artist, song, group, or compilation (ASGC) that the entry is referencing and is thus not of interest to the observer.
Type - See above, tells which ASGC it is.
Contributors - This is the piece of data that makes this database interesting and lets the network be possible. This is an array which lists all of the other ASGCs which were involved in creating the one referenced by the entry. This is used to show the bonds between all the entries and make connections. Bonds can be either strong or weak, and this is differentiated by whether or not a contributor is placed in the major contributor array or the minor contributor array. The order of entries in the array does not matter.
Date - This is the date the ASGC was created. It should be later than all of it's contributors, so dates can be tweaked slightly to make that possible.
Picture - This is some sort of image associated with the ASGC (for example, an OC or cover art) that would be used in the web drawn from the database.

Now for the specific types.

Artists
These are used to represent single musicians.
Name: This is whatever the primary name used to refer to the artist is. For example, George DesRochees(?) would be listed as Tarby. Some artists like Glaze/WoodenToaster are a bit harder to work with, but a single name must be decided on as artists only get one entry. Yes, Renard will just be listed as Renard. Daniel Ingram will also get an entry which could serve as the hub of the web.
Contributors: None
Date: Whenever they became a part of the brony music scene, whatever this means. The date must be decided on so that it's before all their songs which are part of the community. Things get a bit more complicated when artists have songs which aren't part of the community.
Picture: Either an image of the artist, their OC, or their logo.

Songs
These are used to represent songs (or other musical pieces) which are part of the brony music scene. This includes songs from the show.
Name: Whatever the official name of the song is. Listing the artist who made it is not included unless the song is usually referred to as such to differentiate it from another song or something.
Contributors: This is the most complicated part and the skeleton of the web. Identifying contributors is not always easy. If it's a original song made by a single person just list the musician as the main contributor and list no minor contributors. If multiple people made it, it's a little bit more complicated. First, see whether it's credited to a formal group or not. If so, just list the group as you would an artist. For example, credit "Filly Cannon" to TwentyTen. "Flower of the Season" must be divided between Bronyfied and the Aviators because together they are not a formal group. If not, major and minor contributors must be identified and sorted appropriately. For example, "Breaking Bonds" would have AcousticBrony and PrinceWhatever as it's major contributor's, and it's minor contributor's would be MandoPony, MHM, IBringDaLulz and George. Differentiating minor and major contributor's is not always easy, but if there isn't an artist who is clearing a contributor rather than a primary artist behind it then everyone should be listed as major contributors. Finally, remixes, covers and parodies must be dealt with. For now assume that there is only one artist behind said remixed track. The artist behind the original should NOT be credited unless they directly contributed to the final track. Instead the original song itself will be listed as a contributor. To determine whether it's a minor contributor or a major contributor it should be determined how much the composition, style, lyrics, playing (instrumental covers would have original playing, remixes generally wouldn't), vocals ect. were changed. If it's mostly the same, the artist should be listed as a MINOR contributor and the song should be listed as a major contributor. If it's mostly original the artist is the main contributor and the original song is the minor contributor. If it's not clear which list both as major contributors. Mashups should be dealt with in the same manner, but each song would be listed as a separate contributor and contributors must be weighed in the manner they would be for if multiple artists were working on it. If multiple artists are working on a remix (ex. GatoPaint's cover of "Fade to Grey" or "Stuck on the Moon") just combine the methods. The important part is that in the end at least one major contributor is settled upon.
Date: When the song was released.
Picture: If it has a youtube video that's usually a good place to look. Also check it is has an image on band camp or sound cloud. If all else fails it could be given either the artists image, or just be given a generic filler image.

Groups
This is an established group of musicians like TwentyTen or Neighslayer (or Ghelded Kultz). Unlike songs and artists a single group could have multiple entries. This will happen if the group's name or line up changes for the sake of clarity.
Name: If there is no official name for the group than it shouldn't have an entry. Multiple groups can and will have the same name.
Contributors: If all the members are seen as equals then they should all be listed as major contributors. If one member is seen as the group leader (like Dethonator in Neighslayer or Matt "Metronome" Clipclop in Ghelded Kultz) they should be listed as the major contributor and the other members as minor contributors.
Date: If it's the original line up, list the formation date. If not, list the date of the lineup change that resulted in the lineup the entry is referring to.
Picture: See artists, only it's for the entire group, not it's individual artists.

Compilations
This include albums (both personal album's like Cyril's "Searching" and compilations like Balloon Party: 100% No Feeble Cheering) and contests like each Toast Beast and all those remix contests.
Name: If it's an album, it's the album's name. An exception might be "100% Feeble Cheering" as it's usually referred to as Ballon Party. Contests will be referred to by the exact contest, each Toast Beard or remix war would be referred to by it's full name, like Toast Beard S3 Episode Response 12.
Contributors: The organizers of the compilation will be listed as the main contributors (if it's a personal album that would just be the artist behind it). All the included songs will be listed as the minor contributors. In contests the winning songs will also be listed as major contributors or something.
Date: For albums it's when it's released. For contests it's when they are judged.
Picture: For albums it's the official cover art, for contests it's whatever damn works, probably a logo.

Now, for the web that will be generated. Everything will be given a icon on the web displaying the picture and whose appearance (shape or color of outline or something) reflects the type. They could hopefully be clicked on to get details like name and date. The icons will be arranged around a central point, where their date determines how far from that point they will be. Daniel Ingram would make a good central point. The icons would have arcs connecting them with their contributors, and the lines would be dashed if it's a minor contributor. Somehow the icons would be arranged to avoid arcs going through unrelated icons or something.

That's what I have so far.

-Soft D. String DeHooves

[Nine Volt]

So are you planning to go through with this at all?

We do have BMD, but that's only most of the artists and not songs.

[itroitnyah]

Hm, I guess you could present your ideas to Freewave and possibly join the BronyMusicDirectory team to make the advances?

[Fimbulin]

Hm, I guess you could present your ideas to Freewave and possibly join the BronyMusicDirectory team to make the advances?

Excellent idea. See if Freewave could use any of your ideas.

[ghelded_kultz]

So are you planning to go through with this at all?

We do have BMD, but that's only most of the artists and not songs.

Well I can't really go through with this as 1. I would need a server 2. I have no idea how to do anything with servers and 3. I don't know enough about making databases to implement all the features in this. The best I can do is make a useless grid in google docs.

This is a completely different concept than BMD. BMD is a blog and not a technical database. This is a technical database. They also have completely different purposes. BMD is made to catalogue brony musicians and would give more information about actual musicians and to be more user friendly. This would be made to show connections within the community and not to be directly read, it's meant to be read by a periphery program which would generate the web.

-Soft D. String DeHooves

[itroitnyah]

sounds technical

[Freewave]

Keep in mind i think that sellyme has been working on a database and a song archive idea for all pony songs and musicians for sometime. I haven't talked to him forever so no idea what he's doing now with that or if it died out. I'll have to check this proposal out more (just took a brief look through) when i have time to see what this is all about but the brony musician directory has a general database approach to listing artists and their essential tracks already in place. I am always for expanding that role if someone wants to join us, contribute, and take it one step farther. so take a look at what we do and what you think you might do differently....

[AdmiralYoshi]

Keep in mind i think that sellyme has been working on a database and a song archive idea for all pony songs and musicians for sometime. I haven't talked to him forever so no idea what he's doing now with that or if it died out. I'll have to check this proposal out more (just took a brief look through) when i have time to see what this is all about but the brony musician directory has a general database approach to listing artists and their essential tracks already in place. I am always for expanding that role if someone wants to join us, contribute, and take it one step farther. so take a look at what we do and what you think you might do differently....

Selly mentioned it on /r/MLPtunes last week: http://www.reddit.com/r/MLPtunes/commen ... ?context=1

[Freewave]

So are you planning to go through with this at all?

We do have BMD, but that's only most of the artists and not songs.

Well I can't really go through with this as 1. I would need a server 2. I have no idea how to do anything with servers and 3. I don't know enough about making databases to implement all the features in this. The best I can do is make a useless grid in google docs.

This is a completely different concept than BMD. BMD is a blog and not a technical database. This is a technical database. They also have completely different purposes. BMD is made to catalogue brony musicians and would give more information about actual musicians and to be more user friendly. This would be made to show connections within the community and not to be directly read, it's meant to be read by a periphery program which would generate the web.

-Soft D. String DeHooves

I guess i need more info on what you're propsing as i really don't understand its usage or need plus you would need database expereince to make this a reality. BMD seems to fill in this role from an artist / user and the most pertinent info. It is a little more than just a blog as it's searchable and has alphabetical listing of known artist. I'll have to review what sellyme posted as i am again at work and unable to view.

[ghelded_kultz]

So are you planning to go through with this at all?

We do have BMD, but that's only most of the artists and not songs.

Well I can't really go through with this as 1. I would need a server 2. I have no idea how to do anything with servers and 3. I don't know enough about making databases to implement all the features in this. The best I can do is make a useless grid in google docs.

This is a completely different concept than BMD. BMD is a blog and not a technical database. This is a technical database. They also have completely different purposes. BMD is made to catalogue brony musicians and would give more information about actual musicians and to be more user friendly. This would be made to show connections within the community and not to be directly read, it's meant to be read by a periphery program which would generate the web.

-Soft D. String DeHooves

I guess i need more info on what you're propsing as i really don't understand its usage or need plus you would need database expereince to make this a reality. BMD seems to fill in this role from an artist / user and the most pertinent info. It is a little more than just a blog as it's searchable and has alphabetical listing of known artist. I'll have to review what sellyme posted as i am again at work and unable to view.

It's purpose it's is to be read by a client to draw an interactive web thing to show interactions within the music community. It is in no way needed, it would just be an interesting thing to look at, seeing what smaller circles within the brony music community arise and how the scene changes with time and such. This isn't meant for finding information about an artist, it's meant to show relationships between artists.

-Soft D. String DeHooves

[itroitnyah]

Well then you could easily just add in on as part of BMD. It'd just be another section of information about each artist.

Like, for example, the musician introduction on BDM would be:

Artist name
links to websites
Location:
Age:
Description of artist

Connections and friends within the community:or something along these lines

notable track:

[Alycs]

The thing about this is that in itself it is not a database. It is a self-reliant network. It would have to be able to see the interaction between musicians, so it would either need to have one hell of a internet scanning system for finding connections, or it would need voluntary updating. (Thus linking it with BMD)

I think you would also need some sort of access to EqD and some brony radio stations, so you could see who was popular and getting popular (you could use some basic data analysis and statistical calculus to estimate popularity growth), and then need a way for manual input, so that it could find connections.

All in all, I think it would be possible, but it would certainly be a daunting task. I'd imagine you would need to set up some sort of Dynamically Powered C++ code that has a basic site-searching function, causing it to search for names on spotlight sites such as EqD to determine popularity.

Just an idea of how you might set something like this up. I know I couldn't code it, but it seems that its certainly not an impossible attempt.

[ghelded_kultz]

Well then you could easily just add in on as part of BMD. It'd just be another section of information about each artist.

Like, for example, the musician introduction on BDM would be:

Artist name
links to websites
Location:
Age:
Description of artist

Connections and friends within the community:or something along these lines

notable track:

Nah, it wouldn't be necessary, and for this to work it needs to be complete and detail exactly how they collaborated. The directory only gives notable songs. Anyway, if they are in BMD and they haven't released a ton of stuff since their entry was last updated than chances are that if they have any collabs it would be in there, or if any of their songs were covered it would be there.

The thing about this is that in itself it is not a database. It is a self-reliant network. It would have to be able to see the interaction between musicians, so it would either need to have one hell of a internet scanning system for finding connections, or it would need voluntary updating. (Thus linking it with BMD)

I think you would also need some sort of access to EqD and some brony radio stations, so you could see who was popular and getting popular (you could use some basic data analysis and statistical calculus to estimate popularity growth), and then need a way for manual input, so that it could find connections.

All in all, I think it would be possible, but it would certainly be a daunting task. I'd imagine you would need to set up some sort of Dynamically Powered C++ code that has a basic site-searching function, causing it to search for names on spotlight sites such as EqD to determine popularity.

Just an idea of how you might set something like this up. I know I couldn't code it, but it seems that its certainly not an impossible attempt.

The thing I was describing was a literal database (assuming databases can story arrays) where all the entries would be manually entered (it would require a ton of work to do and the BMD would be used as a reference). The network would then be created from the database. Here connections between musicians is defined through collaborations, remixes, and compilations. It would give an idea of the shape of the community, and could also be used to find people's Living Tombstone Number. Popularity wasn't really an element I was looking at when I thought this up, and it would be hard to measure and unlike the data I established it's dynamic, but comparing people's popularity with the popularity of the people they collab with would be interesting (another data type that would be interesting that I didn't mention would be genre, which can be plucked from the BMD). Anyway, I'm not sure how well scanner would work at picking these up as I'm not sure how consistant markings of collabs are.

-Soft D. String DeHooves

[Forza SoundFire]

You can set-up and host a Ruby on Rails database quite easily. I'm sure there are some programmers here who could do it.

RoR is built for this sort of thing! =D

[ghelded_kultz]

You can set-up and host a Ruby on Rails database quite easily. I'm sure there are some programmers here who could do it.

RoR is built for this sort of thing! =D

Looked it up, it sounds like the type of thing I'm looking for. Of course, the larger problem is that I'm very lazy and I don't know if something like this would be in anyway worth the effort.

-Soft D. String DeHooves

[Forza SoundFire]

You can set-up and host a Ruby on Rails database quite easily. I'm sure there are some programmers here who could do it.

RoR is built for this sort of thing! =D

Looked it up, it sounds like the type of thing I'm looking for. Of course, the larger problem is that I'm very lazy and I don't know if something like this would be in anyway worth the effort.

-Soft D. String DeHooves

I might remember enough RoR to build it.. But I don't have the skill or time to maintain and serve it, I'm afraid. =/

I was considering this a few weeks ago as well.. It seems like a useful tool!

[Freewave]

The more you describe about a database of artists and their relationship to each other the more i see that in a way this all exists on last.fm already. Not every brony musician has been entered or scrobbled on there but certaintly it shows when artists are listened to next to each other or may share relationship with each other. Maybe get more brony musician artists entered on there and encourage people to use it. I was always saddened that last.fm really doesn't have a widespread brony musician group or real support unlike some genres and scenes (Lolicore as awful as it was was rather huge on last.fm for example).

[Nine Volt]

I hope that's not related to lolicon...

[ghelded_kultz]

The more you describe about a database of artists and their relationship to each other the more i see that in a way this all exists on last.fm already. Not every brony musician has been entered or scrobbled on there but certaintly it shows when artists are listened to next to each other or may share relationship with each other. Maybe get more brony musician artists entered on there and encourage people to use it. I was always saddened that last.fm really doesn't have a widespread brony musician group or real support unlike some genres and scenes (Lolicore as awful as it was was rather huge on last.fm for example).

Maybe, I don't know much about how last.fm works, the other Kult probably knows more about it, but I don't.

-Soft D. String DeHooves