An Interesting Read

[Navron]

http://www.mlponies.com/2012/06/20/love ... her-myths/

Most people understand that love and tolerance is not a central theme of the show...at all, but if you ever wondered exactly how it came about, this offers a good explanation.

What are my feelings on it?

I think love and tolerance works as a concept. It doesn't mean anything along the lines of getting away with whatever you want without being questioned about it, and that's where it falls short.

Far too often I see this phrase used more as a scapegoat (really liking this word lately), such as the typical EqD mini-crapfest:

- Brony 1: Hot damn I love them saucy pics.
- Brony 2: Really, bro?
- Brony 1: Where's the love and tolerance?

So, to perhaps elaborate a bit on the concept...

Love and tolerance works as a central theme in which bronies do not judge those who do not like the show, or like certain aspects of the fandom that they may not like.

Love and tolerance does not work as a blanket statement such as, "You disagree with my opinion, therefore you're not loving and tolerant."

Pretty much it's become a new TL:DR.

[Whitetail]

Love and Tolerance was a counter troll that people took to heart far too strong not realizing it's origins.
You shouldn't need a mantra to not be a dick on the internet and toiting that around like it's something you have to constantly tell yourself tends to make you look like one of /those/ bronies.

Not to mention like you said, it's FAR too often used as a scape goat to justify immaturity or hypocritical lack of accepting other's opinions on things you have opinions on.

Here's the way I see it
If you have to say it
You're not doing it

Use it as a mantra all you want but if you're using it as a crux in your argument you're utterly failing at it's execution since the most basic application of it is ignoring people reacting harshly against you and moving on, not caring.




It's sad really because for a while it was actually rather hard to troll the fandom, guess it just comes from the size expanding getting more sensitive people but now it's pathetically easy to get a response out of any group with some basic, basic trolling. "Love and Tolerance" as a counter troll only worked when trolls had no clue how to contend with passive aggression and were more pissed off themselves for having something they didn't like on their "domain" persay, otherwise now it's just the same as any other response you could give - an actual response. The only definitive way to lose a troll is to not respond, AT ALL - and by spewing this little catch phrase every time you see something that slightly pisses you off you're just encouraging it by giving them some sort of reaction, they know you'll respond if they post things, hence they've got you.

[Freewave]

I'm not sure I really liked the article TBH. It's point that Love & Tolerance aren't central to the show, are in various unexceptional cartoons, and are ultimately hollow just seemed long-winded and a rant. I think there's a lot more to show then that. If anything tolerance could easily be as echoed in "don't feed the parasprites (trolls)". If someone is trolling your youtube don't argue just delete the f*ckers comments tho. Love & tolerance i think works well in theory but as we know people distort these concepts to fit their own agendas and sometimes improper behaviors. I think it's fair that in general we try to be nice and we respect counter opinions to ours and not exhibit selfish or inappropriate behavior or expect it to be tolerated. Yes being too tolerant CAN backfire but so can being too nice (like Pinkie to Cranky).

Do I think the brony community is nicer and more accepting than most communities? Absolutely. But I think all to often that we still show who "we" are in the end of the day. We're still humans with all their flaws and many of us bronies are young, overwhelmingly male, and immature kids who still think it's ok to call each other faggit and whip out pony porn at any opportunity. So while I love the community as a whole I all to often see us screaming at the haters or acting like idiots on youtube and that's also just part of what we are as well (sadly). If you look at bronycon footage too "we" may be overwhelmingly akward pimply social outcasts yearning for friendships that we were promised in saturday morning cartoons of former years. We are trying to recreate these in new social communities through our love of mlp as it is preaching what WE want life to be LIKE. Love & tolerance are a part of this but so are SOO many other lessons. Each episode IS a lesson in how life should be lived.

I do happen to think that it's rejection of gender roles is one of the community's key charcteristics. That taking a female focused approached that's still embraced by males is something that's key as a game changer as a community and somewhat revolutionary. The fact that each of us here are 98% male and yet often emblaze our avatars with female characters and focus intently on a female led show despite everything in society that teaches us not to is leading us to a more accpeting future that throws off such outdated gender roles. I guess some shows like Glee are doing the same thing but I find MLP much more watchable and it feels a lot less preachy while giving the same life lessons in the end run. Also it's the fanfictions, art, and music that people create about the show is where we see creativity flourish and that's also just as much a part of what the community is.

[Whitetail]

I do happen to think that it's rejection of gender roles is one of the community's key charcteristics. That taking a female focused approached that's still embraced by males is something that's key as a game changer as a community and somewhat revolutionary. The fact that each of us here are 98% male and yet often emblaze our avatars with female characters and focus intently on a female led show despite everything in society that teaches us not to is leading us to a more accpeting future that throws off such outdated gender roles.

What happened to not caring
Why does it have to be "more accepting of female focused approach"

Seriously I don't get it.
Since when did the community go from not caring at all about the girly aspect of the show to caring too much about it, taking it too far to heart.

You're not rejecting gender roles if you're just accepting another one and you're certainly not revolutionizing things - the only real progress is realizing that confining yourself and calling specific things "male" or "female" when it comes to behavior or interests is silly and lacking in substance. If anything the community's gone backwards in that regard.

[Freewave]

If anything the community's gone backwards in that regard.

Can you give me a little more info on what you mean by that? Again whether it's not caring about all the female characters on the show or taking them to much to heart it still ultimately looks strange and different to outsiders who may or not share the same ideas of tolerance. I'll agree when some guy is getting interviewed by a news channel in female cosplay outfit at a bronycon it does make us look like a bunch of freaks which we have a right to be concerned about. I don't think we should be portrayed as abnormal.

[CommandSpry]

I agree, I also believe that all World of Warcraft players like to shove their remotes up their ass and destroy monitors because of changed passwords.

[Dave!]

I agree, I also believe that all World of Warcraft players like to shove their remotes up their ass and destroy monitors because of changed passwords.

11/10

[Dave!]

I agree, I also believe that all World of Warcraft players like to shove their remotes up their ass and destroy monitors because of changed passwords.

11/10

[gnarbeard]

I think love and tolerance works as a concept. It doesn't mean anything along the lines of getting away with whatever you want without being questioned about it, and that's where it falls short.

Far too often I see this phrase used more as a scapegoat (really liking this word lately), such as the typical EqD mini-crapfest:

- Brony 1: Hot damn I love them saucy pics.
- Brony 2: Really, bro?
- Brony 1: Where's the love and tolerance?

Love and tolerance works as a central theme in which bronies do not judge those who do not like the show, or like certain aspects of the fandom that they may not like.

Love and tolerance does not work as a blanket statement such as, "You disagree with my opinion, therefore you're not loving and tolerant."

This x's a million. My thoughts exactly.

[Navron]

I agree, I also believe that all World of Warcraft players like to shove their remotes up their ass and destroy monitors because of changed passwords.

He's got a point though.

When it comes to a large gaming community, people already know that there's over the top gamers that punch through their monitors when something goes horribly wrong with their game. Usually segments like these are simply shown for entertainment purposes, vs educational purposes.

The segments about bronies on the other hand, are usually new and something people don't know about, so to create more feedback, they'll probably show something like this:



This was taken at the most recent anthrocon IIRC.

Now, I've got absolutely nothing against furries, or sonic fans, or pretty much any other fandom, but considering how relatively new our fandom is, I think it's important we try to avoid the mistakes other fandoms have already made.

Which sort of goes into the whole thing about love and tolerance. There's a delicate line between deliberately oppressing people's freedom to do what they like, to letting everything slide and not giving a care about how others view us.

It might be pretty easy for a teenage kid to be like, "Why are saucy images such a big deal on EqD?" when that kid is living at home, and keeps his brony status to himself. For someone like him, it doesn't matter what PR bronies have, because it doesn't affect him.

On the other hand, there's people like me, who are open about liking the show, and show things about the fandom to family, coworkers, and friends. You start caring more about PR when you're explaining the show to somebody else who's opinion of bronies is nothing more than the bad publicity.

For example:
- In May I had to explain to a pilot at my squadron how MLP is not about r34. Up until then his only experience with bronies were ones that posted porn on a forum he visited.

A fandom shouldn't be something that requires an explanation. A Star Wars/Star Trek fan doesn't need to worry about people freaking out when they mention they are a fan, or try to show others the movies and/or show.

With MLP, it's already hard enough to explain the quality in the show, but trying to explain that is much easier than trying to explain that you aren't into kinky horses.

So yeah, for those of us who are open bronies, PR is a pretty big deal.

[Legion]

I think this takes the cake for the most disturbing thing I've seen all day.

[CommandSpry]

Navy, it's not a usual community, people won't understand it, don't try too much. Whatever you do won't change people's opinions because they will WANT not to understand it and bash it because it feels NATURAL. The only cure for this is TIME, so give it. Furries still have an awful reputation but it's much better than years ago. Bronies don't have as bad a reputation I'd say but it will only get better. The people who don't aproove will see exactly what they WANT to see: Pictures like these, bronies going to buy Pizza and singing Winter Wrap Up badly on the streets (-_-'), autistic bronies, and it's enough for them to make their argument, they don't WANT to look at the good side.

Let's see what the response will be to the Convention documentary w/John. It will be a cool argument to use when faced with people who only saw exactly what they wanted; embarrasing pictures.

[Captain Ironhelm]

It does help when somebody is genuinely curious, so when they look it up, the first thing they see is not something like that picture above.

Because it's new, people's opinions are generated from what they get as a first impression.

[soup2504]

Since love and tolerance has been brought up, I'm just going to pop in.

Love and tolerance has always meant "Love being a brony, tolerate those who aren't" to me, and a LOT of people, of not everyone I know. Of course, take one look at how our fandom deals with haters. It's pathetic how they are fraaking out at every hater and trying to force the show down people's throats, acting as if it's a crime not liking MLP. I've found the easiest way to confront haters is by simply talking to them Ina civilized manner, and finding out exactly why they hate bronies, agreeing with the opinions they have that are correct(believe it or not, a lot of haters actually have good reasons to dislike bronies), pointing out the ones that are wrong, and being friendly. I have actually befriended many haters because of this.

But really, the fandom has warped the definition of love and tolerance so much that it has just... Meh.

Some people say "love and tolerance!" to avoid talking to haters, some people believe it means to troll people endlessly, some people believe it means to spread MLP EVERYWHERE they go, and the list goes onnnnnn...

Meh, I'm done for now.