Should I get a Macbook Pro for Ableton?

[Cherax]

I've got technical difficulties. My current set-up is Ableton Live 8 on a Windows 7-running tower PC, with 2GB RAM and a 2.2GHz dual-core processor. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean all that much to me. All I know is, Ableton just can't handle my projects. It has handled relatively simple things like a DJ set in the past, but evidently I use way too much Reverb for my original stuff, and it inevitably starts yelling at me (ie. cutting audio, lagging, dropping samples). Add to this the fact that I'm about to start gigging, which means I need portability AND minimal computer-yelling, and you get the obvious result: I need a good laptop.

I've been told by two friends I consider reliable sources that, due to complex technical whathaveyou about APIs and kernels, Windows computers will never be able to run Ableton as successfully as Macs. I've played some of my originals on a 13" Macbook Pro, and it handled them flawlessly; the same projects on my computer can send the CPU through the roof and cut out half the song. Two problems are preventing me from buying a Macbook right this very second:
1) I have tentatively asked elsewhere, and received a few replies telling me this is all lies, and that you can get a boss Dell or whatever for $1000 or less that is just as good at running complex Ableton sets; and
2) I really dislike Macs. It's a bitter pill I could swallow if I had to, but I'd prefer a Windows laptop. (No OS wars, please!)

So, who better to ask than a forum of musicians: WHAT DO. Are there Windows laptops that can run sets as apparently complex as mine? Or am I stuck with Macbook Pros as my only choice if I want cool runnings, live and at home?

(If you give an answer, whatever it is, please provide some evidence. Some guy told me, "get a Dell; I've been making music comfortably for years on one with no problems!" All of the songs on his Soundcloud were Skrillex mash-ups. Really poorly executed mash-ups, no less. C'mon, guy. That doesn't count. >8|)

[Icky]

The cutting audio, lagging and dropping samples could also be the result of overruns, in which case you should probably look into an external soundcard rather than a new PC.

[natsukashi]

I'm with Icky on this one. It's better to invest in an external soundcard than a macbook if you mainly are gonna create music. Dragging a tower around for livesets is kinda annoying considering you need controllers and shit as well though.

I've also read something about that Windows processes sound in a very very bad way, which makes it fry your computer at any possible chance. I'd play it safe and get a macbook, seeing as you've had good experience with them.

[the4thImpulse]

Like the others here said already it sounds like a soundcard would be of a bigger help to you than a new machine. The soundcard will take a huge load off your cpu which should clear up most of your problems.

If you do need a new computer you dont need a mac, you can get a windows machine that will run as good (maybe better) as one for much cheaper. Heres a video to show what matters when building a audio production computer (the guy uses Ableton too).

[Facade]

im with the4thimpulse on this one
its better to get a sound card rather then a new computer

[bartekko]

You mention using too much reverb.
Ableton's built-in reverb is very heavy on the cpu, so heavy, that one instance of it takes as much processing power as all my synthesizers together ( I use z3ta+ which is known for being very light)

If you're using too much reverb, I guess it means that you have too many instances of it. The easiest way to limit the amount of reverb instances, is to use a return track. (return track a) or to change your reverb

[Versilaryan]

Reverb in general is incredibly CPU-intensive. I'd recommend either just using less reverb or finding reverb plugins that don't take as many calculations.

Alternatively, instead of using reverb plugins in all of your tracks, set up return tracks that are 100% reverb, and then send to those tracks. What I usually end up doing is using reverb on things I NEED reverb on, and then I'll set up two return tracks, hard-panned left and right, with 100% wet reverb on them. Then I'll just send the other tracks to those reverb tracks and cut down on how many instances of reverb I'm using.

It is true that Macs are set up to be more efficient than PC's, because the Mac OS's are designed solely to be run on Macs (as opposed to Windows, which has to run on EVERYTHING). At the same time, they're overpriced and you can probably get a much better laptop for the same price, plus an external soundcard to increase audio quality.

[Ed Viper]

I've got technical difficulties. My current set-up is Ableton Live 8 on a Windows 7-running tower PC, with 2GB RAM and a 2.2GHz dual-core processor.

A 2.2 GHz dual-core processor is pretty good, actually. 2 GB of RAM I have issues with (growing up with at least 6GB of RAM all my life talkin' here), thankfully RAM isn't very expensive and is relatively easy to install (if you don't know much about computers, get someone to help you).

The issue here as far as processing power goes, would be your lack or RAM. I'm not gonna try to explain how RAM works, because that's completely off-topic (well... semi-off-topic, anyway). Just know that more RAM = more processing "space".

Also, as others here have said, you also want to look at upgrading your sound card, as that would also be viable. Not only would it maybe fix your problem, it's probably in your best interests to upgrade from whatever stock sound card is in your machine.

[the4thImpulse]

A 2.2 GHz dual-core processor is pretty good, actually. 2 GB of RAM I have issues with (growing up with at least 6GB of RAM all my life talkin' here), thankfully RAM isn't very expensive and is relatively easy to install (if you don't know much about computers, get someone to help you).

The issue here as far as processing power goes, would be your lack or RAM. I'm not gonna try to explain how RAM works, because that's completely off-topic (well... semi-off-topic, anyway). Just know that more RAM = more processing "space".

Please watch the video I posted earlier, the guy is a certified Ableton trainer so he knows his stuff. He says Ableton 8 only uses a maximum 2 gigs of ram on Windows 7. I am not saying that he shouldn't get more ram but its not a priority here.

[Applejinx]

Please watch the video I posted earlier, the guy is a certified Ableton trainer so he knows his stuff. He says Ableton 8 only uses a maximum 2 gigs of ram on Windows 7. I am not saying that he shouldn't get more ram but its not a priority here.

Really? Maybe that's why.

"Is Live 8 a 64-bit application and how much memory can it address running on Mac OS X 10.6?
Live is a 32-bit application. As of Mac OS X 10.4, the Mac version of Live can make use of up to 4 GB of RAM. This still holds true for 10.6."

I can run a heck of a lot on Logic Pro on a macbook with 2.53 GHz i5 and only 4G of 1067 Mhz DDR3, but that's just me. If you really hate Macs viscerally for some reason maybe you'd rather just live with some audio issues. I dislike folks yelling at Macs in one of those rare-ish instances when they ARE working as hyped...

[Cherax]

I don't think it's the RAM, though I reckon I'm about due for an upgrade to 4GB anyway. Whatever it takes to make my TF2 just that little bit smoother, heh.

I was being facetious about the Reverb comment. Well, a little... I do use a dang lot of Reverb, but there are other effects at play here. Besides, me and Reverb have a very deep and meaningful relationship which I don't want to threaten. By which I mean: I can see how return tracks can come in handy, but they're just not part of my workflow. I guess I'd rather be suiting my environment to my methods, not the other way around.

But then there's the question of sound cards. Does anyone have an example of an external sound card that could go with a decent Windows laptop that is a) cost-effective, in terms of both its own cost and the cost of it + laptop compared to just getting a Macbook Pro, and b) capable of doing what needs to be done?

[the4thImpulse]

Really? Maybe that's why.

Nope, I often run multiple reverbs per track and have never had the problems the op has.

I was being facetious about the Reverb comment. Well, a little... I do use a dang lot of Reverb, but there are other effects at play here. Besides, me and Reverb have a very deep and meaningful relationship which I don't want to threaten. By which I mean: I can see how return tracks can come in handy, but they're just not part of my workflow. I guess I'd rather be suiting my environment to my methods, not the other way around.

But then there's the question of sound cards. Does anyone have an example of an external sound card that could go with a decent Windows laptop that is a) cost-effective, in terms of both its own cost and the cost of it + laptop compared to just getting a Macbook Pro, and b) capable of doing what needs to be done?

First knowing your budget would help.

I suggest doing what the video said when looking for (or building) a new PC. There are many external soundcards to choose from and there are rarely problems with them not working properly with windows.

[Acknown3]

Also, if you intend on building a PC, or just upgrading the parts, I build computers for people as a side job, so I can help with choosing components.

[Cherax]

First knowing your budget would help.

Ohhhh yeah, that! Whoops. $1500 tops. Preferably less, but sometimes you can't avoid spending extra.

[Acknown3]

Do you want me to put together a build that can game as well? And do you need to save some of that for programs?

[Cherax]

Do you want me to put together a build that can game as well? And do you need to save some of that for programs?

Oh, it's cool, my current set-up actually does handle games well (I bought it from an internet cafe, so it dang well should!). Since this computer can do everything else I need it to fine, I'm happy to sacrifice other functionality on a new laptop just to get running Ableton well. And no, programs (well, program) aren't included in my budget.

[the4thImpulse]

Oh, it's cool, my current set-up actually does handle games well (I bought it from an internet cafe, so it dang well should!). Since this computer can do everything else I need it to fine, I'm happy to sacrifice other functionality on a new laptop just to get running Ableton well. And no, programs (well, program) aren't included in my budget.

I cant help with picking the computer, but I recomend following the video.

As for the soundcard depending how much you have left over for it and if you need to record instruments/vocals I have a few suggestions. I dont know their current prices in Australia.

- Apogee Duet 2
- Presonus Audiobox
- M-Audio Fast Track

I have tried all three myself and know friends who use them regularly. They are of diffrent quality and price range to give you some options.

[vladnuke]

Bro, for $1500, you can make a crazy awesome computer. Actually, I have two self built ones, one running i7 with sli'ed gtx 540's and 16 gigs of ram. All that, plus all the other parts (motherboard, psu, ssd+hdd, etc) cost me way less than $1500. And now if I ever wanna run anything ever, I can run it. Idk about ableton, but render times for fl (I also run a lot of reverb for some of my tracks) are usually around 10 secs for a 4 min song.

[[voodoopony]]

I'd try out Logic if you're getting a mac, it's a sweet little toy ;]

[Cherax]

render times for fl (I also run a lot of reverb for some of my tracks) are usually around 10 secs for a 4 min song.

>TEN SECONDS FLAT

Building a boss computer is totally doable, and is something that's further down my to-do list, but I still need something I can take with me to gigs.

@the4thImpulse - my friend uses a Presonus Firebox (an Audiobox, but with FireWire) with his 13" Macbook Pro. It's a very nice little doohickey! His set-up is kind of my baseline for comparison here; if nothing else jumps out at me, I'll pretty much just copy that (though I may need to buy a non-USB mic... sigh~). That Duet looks damn sexy, though.

So: can an external soundcard alone solve the (disputed) problem that Windows just can't process audio like a Mac can?

I'd try out Logic if you're getting a mac, it's a sweet little toy ;]

B-but I just figured out how to use Ableton! D:

[the4thImpulse]

So: can an external soundcard alone solve the (disputed) problem that Windows just can't process audio like a Mac can?

Mac's will have the same problem in that area too although they may be better than your PC, but yes the soundcard will solve the issue and will give you a more accurate sound.

[Facade]

So: can an external soundcard alone solve the (disputed) problem that Windows just can't process audio like a Mac can?

Mac's will have the same problem in that area too although they may be better than your PC, but yes the soundcard will solve the issue and will give you a more accurate sound.

hmm this reminds me do we have a sound card / why is my sound quality bad guide over here on mlr?

[[voodoopony]]

I'd try out Logic if you're getting a mac, it's a sweet little toy ;]

B-but I just figured out how to use Ableton! D:

Ableton's good. When I tried it out I didn't like the way the signal chain was presented and how you have to view the mix and track in two different places, but that is probably because I'm so used to other DAWs haha. As long as you're used to it go nuts ;]

[But 7 years from now, if you're still into music and have mastered Ableton, have 90 bucks to spend and feel like trying out a new DAW, I'd recommend Logic! Or Studio1, if you're a gearhead]

[Applejinx]

Logic's supposed to be awful good for midi composition. I guess I can see it- you get a lot just default with it. I write loads of plugins for it too.

It's deep, you can get up to crazy routing and bussing to almost any degree with it. I'm real happy with Logic

Also, it's seeing a lot of use from European track remixers, I hear... this is some guys in the UK who are using my plugins AND using Logic (which I know because they talked to me )

http://soundcloud.com/octane-dlr/octane-dlr-ordnance-dispatch

[Cherax]

[But 7 years from now, if you're still into music and have mastered Ableton, have 90 bucks to spend and feel like trying out a new DAW, I'd recommend Logic! Or Studio1, if you're a gearhead]

Heck, man, if I get a Macbook, I'll get Logic ASAP! I love Ableton, and I'll be using it for a long time to come, but you've always gotta branch out and try new things. I've spent the last year and a half in the Ableton bubble - who knows what I've been missing out on? (Aside from all the jokes about FL Studio you MLR guys make. Whoosh, straight over my head...)