Remix War V ?

Re: Remix War V ?

Postby Evdog » 27 May 2012 05:25

This may sound weird, but what if Makkon (and whoever else is running it) goes and finds an already existing, genuinely good track(s) by an almost completely unknown brony artist(s). That way, it brings new people into the spotlight, instead of the same "big shots", whom everypony already knows.

It'd be a pleasant surprise to the people chosen too. :D
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby Fimbulin » 27 May 2012 05:28

I like that idea much better! :D
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby Freewave » 27 May 2012 08:47

If we keep it REMIXES (and not collabs):

We could do something as simple as the organizers prep 24 to 28 songs midi's and stems (nothing that's been overly mixed before, maybe even a NEW unreleased track) from the biggest bronies and say that people need to choose from these songs and remix them. Those top bronies won't actually compete (as that might be a bit unfair) but get the honor of having their track remixed several times over. Take the best remix of each song as the final release (voting and tracks perhaps made are anonymous in terms of who made them). You get 1 remix opportunity per musician that's it. So say you could have up to 10 people trying to remix a track x 28 tracks = could accomodate 280 people's time.

The listening and voting could be as big as the project itself and with so many more people involved you could see a lot more votes and listens. Something like The Voice and Pony Idol where voting comes into play and listeners become much more involved and important. Obviously quite a few of these won't become the final product but people can release their own non-winning track afterwards too (and have a lot of company), something to be proud of, and a fun experience.
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby UnderpΩny » 27 May 2012 09:38

I'm liking these ideas.
So, what's going on in my head from what people have been saying, is if there's a set list of tracks... participants apply to remix a certain track, and then a seperate synchlisten is held for each set of remixes, maybe a few days apart. It could be a problem that like, everyone wants to do this track, but no-one wants to do this track... but trying to regulate how many people do each track might cause a bit of unfairness. I guess, if it were to be regulated, the best way would just be first come first serve.
I really didn't realise how much of a logistical problem another remix war would be! But I'm well eager, and I've basically finished school, so I'll do whatever I can to make this happen.
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby Makkon » 27 May 2012 13:04

These are all interesting ideas, but please keep in mind that the Remix War was never a competition. Entries were never voted on. The only determining factor that could eliminate your track was poor quality or a deliberate troll track.
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby Fimbulin » 27 May 2012 17:33

I still like the idea of an author's pick! xD
Competition or not, I think that some side competition between individual groups would be healthy.
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby Freewave » 27 May 2012 18:56

Well then again if it's anything like Balloon Party we could get 200 entries and as you said we can't feature all of that. So how do we wanna do it?

If we pick a select best (like my scenario) at least everyone is listening to each (and hopefully anonymously so people dont just vote for big names/friends) and if 1/10 make it shouldn't feel like a crushing defeat if someone doesn't get in for the final product. Sure it would be like a giant toastbeard in some ways but I'm not sure how else we'd do it. Of course having something like The Voice where we go through rounds could be cool too.

But I don't see how you can include everything if you dont have voting...Toast Beard has voting but it really isnt a competition as its the attempt and the listening thats the fun part...
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby Rainbowjack » 28 May 2012 01:39

I'm liking the anonymous entries idea, but I also like the idea of having a new artist with not that many listeners to make a song for everyone to remix, how about we get four or five or so no name artists (so no big names like Makkon or Glaze or Tombstone etc) to make a song each and release the stems and midis and presets basically everything needed to remix a song then get everyone who enters to remix one of each songs, we could fit all the artists into groups for each song and they have to apply to be in it so we don't get like 200 entries and they all be voted for anonymously.

Yeah?

TL;DR - no name artists, apply to enter, vote anonymously

P.S. it's a remix WAR why can't it be a contest?
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby Freewave » 28 May 2012 08:21

Well we can definitely have a few newer artists submit stems too but then it become who gets included out of the mass of lesser known bronies. I thought it was a bit more fair to have some big names submit tracks so they don't need to compete (where they will likely clean kick anybody's a*s) and it still recognizes their status as important in the community. It would be a kick to see a couple unknowns submit stems and get a chance of being remixed too but logisticaly difficult.

It WOULD be cool perhaps if any big name who submits gets to pick a track for us to remix a track by someone smaller then them. Kinda like a Rainbow Dash / Scootaloo relationship. If anything that's the sad part of our community is that the big names rarely acknowledge and chat with people smaller then them. If part of the Remix Wars for them is to remix a track personally of someone smaller (again this part wouldn't be a competition, it would be they get to pick a track) it seems like a step in the right direction in uniting and it gives a nod to the new.
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby bartekko » 28 May 2012 08:22

Rainbowjack wrote:
TL;DR - no name artists, apply to enter, vote anonymously
toastbeard. you can enter anonymously

Rainbowjack wrote:P.S. it's a remix WAR why can't it be a contest?

why should it be a contest
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby Freewave » 28 May 2012 08:36

bartekko wrote:
Rainbowjack wrote:
TL;DR - no name artists, apply to enter, vote anonymously
toastbeard. you can enter anonymously


In fact we'd likely need sci to help make pages similar to toast beard to pull this off as he has experience doing this EXACT same process (posting embedded tracks w/ voting)

bartekko wrote:
Rainbowjack wrote:P.S. it's a remix WAR why can't it be a contest?

why should it be a contest


here's why.....

Makkon wrote:Guys, I'll be honest, I have no idea how we're going to do Remix War V.

Here's why.

Last summer there were two main reasons why we started the Remix War:
1). To give bronies more pony music to listen to (because back then, there wasn't very much at all). Sync parties were maybe 45 entries max, with quality control.
2). to give bronies something to be excited about while we waited for season 2.

Things have changed DRASTICALLY since then.

We now have plenty of music to listen to, so much that' it's coming out of our nostrils. We also have PLENTY to do during the summer, because there's tons of other projects going on, content being pumped out like crazy, etc.

If we were to do another remix war, we'd be getting entries in the 200s. No one is going to sit through that in a sync party, and if we had a strict quality control, that's a TON of entries to go through. Releasing an album of that size won't interest people. Trust me. People will take quality over quantity any day, and wading through a 200+ track album is pointless.


voting is the fair way to select who lands on the eventual compilation. but it should be about the attempt. i know a lot of people whine about EqD not including their tracks sometimes but this is the most fair method that we have for a project this large and it gives everyone a chance to listen to the tracks and vote accordingly to waht's the best of the best. Not just based of a small jury.

again

DJ Pon-3 wrote:We could do something as simple as the organizers prep 24 to 28 songs midi's and stems (nothing that's been overly mixed before, maybe even a NEW unreleased track) from the biggest bronies and say that people need to choose from these songs and remix them. Those top bronies won't actually compete (as that might be a bit unfair) but get the honor of having their track remixed several times over. Take the best remix of each song as the final release (voting and tracks perhaps made are anonymous in terms of who made them). You get 1 remix opportunity per musician that's it. So say you could have up to 10 people trying to remix a track x 28 tracks = could accomodate 280 people's time.

The listening and voting could be as big as the project itself and with so many more people involved you could see a lot more votes and listens. Obviously quite a few of these won't become the final product but people can release their own non-winning track afterwards too (and have a lot of company), something to be proud of, and a fun experience.


so if we did pages on a toast beard type site it would be only up to 10 remixes per track per page so not overloading a page with embeds.

again if people have better, logistically sound ideas, put them forth...
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby UnderpΩny » 28 May 2012 14:59

Well, if we do get 200 entries, for 20 different songs to remix, that would only be 10 remixes per song. You can fiddle around with having different sets of remixes in different synchlistens or features or whatever, so you have 4 lists of 50. Round IV had over 50 entries, and that was pretty managable.

EDIT: So yes, that implies a quadruple Remix War... but spread over the course of 2 weeks it might be awesome. The fun would be doubled... and then doubled again.
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby Rainbowjack » 28 May 2012 15:58

If anything that's the sad part of our community is that the big names rarely acknowledge and chat with ponies smaller then them.


Pony please, iBringDaLULZ messaged me the other day before I messaged him (it was related to my Skype status thing though which involves Omnipony's nips, will only explain over Skype) and I have spoken to Omnipony a few times.

Unrelated but interesting.
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby sci » 28 May 2012 16:49

(long post incoming...)
the idea of having a small pool of songs to remix

Image

part of the appeal of the remix wars is
1. unknown or forgotten songs being brought back to life with a sweet remix
2. having your own unknown or forgotten songs remixed.

If your song isn't in that pool, you're SOL.

Bad idea.

next thing,
Competition, voting, quality control
The remix war was never a competition. I don't think it should be.
The "as long as you're not blatantly trolling and as long as your track is of decent quality" thing is sufficient....for the musician's round of sync-listening.

I'd create a second group: highlights of the remix war. All of the top-tier and memorable tracks would go here, and be advertised a bit more than the "every entry" playlist. If there is any voting, that should be why. (Though "how many" and "what qualifies", I'm not so sure.)

Why are we even having the remix wars?
This post is pretty important:
Makkon wrote:Last summer there were two main reasons why we started the Remix War:
1). To give bronies more pony music to listen to (because back then, there wasn't very much at all). Sync parties were maybe 45 entries max, with quality control.
2). to give bronies something to be excited about while we waited for season 2.

Things have changed DRASTICALLY since then.

We now have plenty of music to listen to, so much that' it's coming out of our nostrils. We also have PLENTY to do during the summer, because there's tons of other projects going on, content being pumped out like crazy, etc.

---> Things have changed DRASTICALLY since then.

No longer is this about making more music to keep the fandom alive and creative. We're pretty sufficient at that already.
I'd like to (re)define why we're doing this:
1. to revisit old and/or familiar songs and ideas (see my first bit of text, the appeal of the remix war)
1a. We don't need the challenge songs anymore. The focus should be entirely on remixes. One per person.
2. get everyone together into a huge event. (The sync-listen will be huge, but I think therein lies the fun.)
3. give everyone who missed the first 4 rounds a chance to participate. (this is an important point, to me.)
4. Lowest priority: Increase the number of pony remixes out there. (Inevitable by definition, but not the main goal anymore.)

"but a sync with 200-something songs is insane"
Yes. Yes it is.
Remix War IV lasted 7 or 8 hours, if I recall correctly.
It was insane, and it was fun. I'd do it again...but not back-to-back.

Here's what I'd do: Shuffle ALL of the entries into as many playlists as needed. Each playlist should contain about 4 hours of music. (Anything further becomes grating, in my experience.)
Every other day, have a sync with one of the playlists.
or, in a more generic bullet point template:
  • shuffle all of the entries into seperate playlists, each about the same length (depending on the number and combine length of every entry)
  • have a sync-listen on an interval: every day, every other day. whichever.

other thoughts that aren't quite as organized:
colortwelve wrote:-Arrange a tentative schedule that breaks the participant list into groups, so that each group has a different deadline (the tracks would be released in waves as if it were multiple rounds, but this would alleviate the stress of combing through 200+ tracks all at once, and if possible sorting the groups by average song completion time would give everyone an amount of time they feel most comfortable with).

of all the ideas mentioned in the thread, I like this the most.
Set an early deadline with an early sync.
if you don't submit on time, horray you now have an extra week or so to finish your song! (rinse and repeat for maybe 4 weeks?)

That'd keep the size of each sync relatively smaller, but it might also reduce the number of people at each sync. ("I'd rather be working on my song than listening to all these other songs for the next several hours", for example)
So in that regard, I'm split on the thought.
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby zorg » 29 May 2012 07:19

DJ Pon-3 wrote:voting is the fair way to select who lands on the eventual compilation. but it should be about the attempt. i know a lot of people whine about EqD not including their tracks sometimes but this is the most fair method that we have for a project this large and it gives everyone a chance to listen to the tracks and vote accordingly to waht's the best of the best. Not just based of a small jury.


there are differences between a "round table" voting what EqD uses (i think... group of musicians who quality check the music) and open voting where anyone can vote. neither one of them is 100% fair, because of different reasons;

the first has the factor of people not being objective, and selecting in tracks because someone asked them to, and even if this does not happen that much, it's still there.
the problem with the second is, not everyone will vote since it's not compulsory, and many people are lazy; an example would be sci's toastbeard, if everyone voted, (and if the reason for the votes wasn't "ill vote this thing so that this other thing wont get to be first" or "troll entry best entry" [2nd wouldn't be applicable to the remix wars]) then maybe the order of the places would be different. (and yes, some people do have that mentality)

and the last thing is, you can sugar coat this however you want, but it's a fact that already e-famous people will almost always stand around the top places in a contest if you let the masses vote (this is what happens generally, though if someone circumvents limits, some will try to autovote aomeone up, though a great enough gap would be suspicious, it was successfully pulled off at least once, in one of the time's polls), so even though you give everyone opportunity to enter the remix wars, the already famous people will win it.
/rant/etc

I like being proven wrong, but i still think that making it a win-lose contest is silly. Imho a simple qualitycheck (with explanation why it sucks so they can maybe fix it before the deadline) and troll filter would be enough, as for the rest, i think sci's idea is good.
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby Freewave » 29 May 2012 14:22

sounds fine. if people are ok with opening it up for a much larger project and really allowing people to remix anything and everything (as said remixing old tracks undheard of for awhile) is still a great idea. if people don't mind taking on a 200+ track project with no real limitations then that's great. i'm fine with a wide open scope vs a short and narrow one and that seems closer to the remix wars original concept.
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby UnderpΩny » 30 May 2012 17:49

Sounds good so far to me. I like keeping it as an open scope like the previous rounds.
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby JackShine » 01 Jun 2012 00:26

I for one, greatly agree with sci... As a newer member of the whole "digital media" scene (or whatever you would like to call it)...
I don't exactly have "influence"... or "fame"... The other day, someone sent me my very first message asking to collab on a project on soundcloud.... I nearly cried tears of joy. I started following the musician community wayyyy back in Remix war 2, although I didn't quite know enough to find this site, I was a little too scared to speak to anyone, and I was in a very dark place at that point in time. (I was busy being disowned by my immediate family and kicked out of every house I could turn to).
For a while I've kind of... hung out and ... lurked... on the IRC/skypes, some of you may have heard my fledgeling attempts at non-live music creation....
Sorry for ranting... but I for one, would REALLY appreciate the opportunity to throw my bits in with all the musicians that I spent my last couple years admiring and listening to, as well as the musicians that I spent time speaking to, learning from, and giving my opinions/assistance to (whenever applicable)!

As some people have said, there IS a gap between the "big names" and the "little names", but that tends to happen with any kind of mainstream or fame... hell, I don't get to sit and chat with every single airman who is new to the techschool that I go to... but around the dorm.. people jokingly call me "sergeant [JackShine]" (<- obviously not my real name silly filly ;) )due to the fact that I take time to make sure that anyone who seeks my assistance is 100% on point....

IMO... and, forgive me for having a rather... bold opinion with very little "street-cred" to back it up with. This Remix War is quite possibly a great chance to, rather than build up the musical community, re-form, and re-organize it into a closer bonded, and maybe even more caring community. (Not saying that anyone is uncaring....) As it seems that, as of late, mostly everypony has been... fairly opinionated about every other pony (myself included ofc...) and rather than taking the time to help each other out wholeheartadly.... someponies have decided to... maybe not be... quite as approachable as they should be. (And this applies to newbies such as myself as well!)

This DOES NOT mean that I am demanding that tombstone, or mic, or .... whoever else is "trendy/popular" (only thing I remember about popularity was that whole everfree top 100 thing...) suddenly needs to spend 100% of their time working with new people. (or else we would never get to hear some of their stuff!) BUT, I do think that we, as a community, should be a little bit more... communicable... after all, if it took me a YEAR to find MLR simply because I didn't know anyone, and I was the ONLY BRONY in the town I came from... but I searched HARD to try and figure it out... how hard must it be for all the bronies in the community who genuinely are SCARED?

Um... if you managed to read this whole... rant... thanks... I greatly appreciate you taking the time to consider what I'm trying to put down.... If my comment makes no sense to you, or you think I'm full of S**t... well, thanks anyways, I will always have a fistful of tolerance and patience for you!
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby Rainbowdutch » 01 Jun 2012 04:24

Really where is this "famous musician" "not famous musician" gap everyone is talking about???
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby bartekko » 01 Jun 2012 06:15

Rainbowdutch wrote:Really where is this "famous musician" "not famous musician" gap everyone is talking about???

0-100 - unknown
100-500 - unpopular
500-1000 - popular
1000-4000 - famous
4000+ - MicTheLivinGlazeApp

(completely random numbers (c) bartekko 2012)
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby Freewave » 01 Jun 2012 07:58

holy crap, i am unpopular!!! :o

i'd prefer

0-100 - cutie mark crusader
100-500 - earth pony
500-1000 - pegasus
1000-5000 - unicorn
5000+ - Princess

(slightly happier feel (c) thefreewave 2012)
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby Fimbulin » 01 Jun 2012 08:02

love your completely random numbers bartekko.
I'm sitting pretty on 37! That might put me in the unknown group.

And DJ Pon-3, when were pegasi and unicorns better than earth ponies? I can get the princess thing, but still?
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby Rainbowjack » 01 Jun 2012 11:50

What are the numbers measured in? Subscribers? Views? Followers?
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby Freewave » 01 Jun 2012 12:07

Fimbulin wrote:And DJ Pon-3, when were pegasi and unicorns better than earth ponies? I can get the princess thing, but still?


well its pretty simple

flying pony > earth bound pony
magic pony > only can fly pony (plus we've never seen a load of unicorns all in the same room like we have the pegasi (hurricane fluttershy)

it's not racist, it's just sensible.

Rainbowjack wrote:What are the numbers measured in? Subscribers? Views? Followers?


subscribers, ie followers on soundcloud
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Re: Remix War V ?

Postby UnderpΩny » 02 Jun 2012 12:34

What if someone wants to do a collaborative entry?
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