Bandcamp and Sampling

[Mesogears]

I'm really new to this site, and was wondering; does it allow sampling? I'm aware that it doesn't allow unauthorized cover songs, but I couldn't find any information about using voice samples or whatnot in your music.

I'm sorry if this sounds noobish, but I'd really like to know before uploading anything there.

[vladnuke]

Seeing as renard is one of the top sellers on bandacamp, uses copious amounts of sampling, and still exists, I'm going with that sampling is ok.

[Freewave]

Also keep in mind the first brony album I've ever heard was the Beatle Bronies and that was just them singing over Beatles instrumentals (before they started doing all the instruments). Those are still on bandcamp. Just be smart and don't try to charge for whatever music you do post there or they should go after you.

[Mesogears]

Seeing as renard is one of the top sellers on bandacamp, uses copious amounts of sampling, and still exists, I'm going with that sampling is ok.

Oh yeah; somehow I forgot about that! If I had remembered, I wouldn't have even had to ask the question!

[Captain Ironhelm]

Just remember that pretty much you are at the mercy of the copywrite holders.

[Cherax]

^ this. I don't think the likes of the Beatle Bronies and Renard are going to be sued, because they don't make a profit from their sample-based works - the copyright holders wouldn't actually win anything substantial from them in a court case. Still, if you're very, very paranoid (as I am), just try to make your samples distinct enough from the original that no-one can identify them.

[FLAOFEI]

Renard dosn't make a profit from his sample-based work

...
They are "Pay what you want", not free... He dose make profit of it, sure he makes more of the ones he puts a price on, but he non the less profits of them.

Allso, Futret is getting fairly big, he uses a ship load of samples everywhere from Nicky Manaje to Sonic the hedgehog to MLP, and he puts a price on them.
I think as long as he's still up you can safely sample whatever you want.

[Mundius]

Aren't Renard and Futret the same guy?

Anyway, you are free to use any sort of sample and Bandcamp will not remove your songs. Just hope that you won't be sued, but that's very unlikely.

[vladnuke]

No, Renard is in Canada, Futret is in Britain.

[FLAOFEI]

Since the original question is allready answerd

0fftopictime

Aren't Renard and Futret the same guy?

No

Futret: (the one to the left)


Renard: (both of em)

See? Compleetly different people

[UoPoko]

I didn't want to agitate anyone by posting a new thread for this subject since there is already a thread going for it and people in it... anywho, this would be my question about Bandcamp (and Soundcloud or any other service) as well. A lot of the people I know of on there have samples in their music. Truxton has a crapload of them, most of them being instantly recognizable (Phil Collins - Land of Confusion in the track Choo Choo), this other guy I'm a huge fan of, Greydon Square, also has samples in his tunes (Ultra Combo has Spinal's Theme from Killer Instinct, Galaxy Rise has a bunch of samples of Carl Sagan and Arthur C. Clark, the track "Flower Girl" samples The Cowsills - Flower Girl). And MC MegaRan ... Chrono Trigger, Mega Man, Little Nemo... but it's all game stuff.

I have aspirations of making music, but I am just kind of mulling over the idea of whether or not I should bother with attempting to make money off of it, or if uploading for free is the more risk free approach. I know that two of Truxton's really sample-heavy albums were thrown out there for free. Greydon sells his music, but most of the time his samples are so obscure and difficult to identify or track down that I guess he's "safe." But if say, I want to put a track together based around a vocal sample and beat cut out of Fleetwood Mac's "Prove Your Love," do I run more a risk for being sued into oblivion by Warner Bros. for that than I would run a risk of being sued by Squaresoft for making a beat out of a tune from Secret of Mana? I don't see making money off of music as an absolute necessity. So if the only way to get my stuff out there without fear is to host a link to it on Dropbox or to just throw it up on Youtube (as Greydon has done with some of his albums) then whatever. I just have some apprehensions, since I don't want to wind up in court, lol.

From what I've seen, Creative Commons is probably the safest route, I remember there being gobs and gobs of chiptune remixes of popular songs on 8bitcollective.org (damn, I really miss that place) and no one ever got threatened with a lawsuit for their NES remake of Duran Duran's "Save a Prayer" or Gary Numan's "Cars."

[ph00tbag]

Your likelihood of getting into legal trouble with a copyright holder really depends on how much money you make from sales, the litigiousness of the holder, and the flagrancy of the sampling. Unless you plan on getting super big making Sound Collage made out of Sony BMG samples, then I would guess you're probably safe.

[UoPoko]

Your likelihood of getting into legal trouble with a copyright holder really depends on how much money you make from sales.

I've read elsewhere, and was told at another forum, that putting the 'derivative work' out for free doesn't necessarily protect you from the possibility of litigation. That's really crummy... if we really want to break it down, everyone at some point has engaged in some form of copyright infringement, or 'art re-purposing' or 'sharing.' I also read that Youtube is adopting a policy that will result in them rejecting music from independent artists.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2 ... bscription

Goodbye Renard, goodbye Greydon Square, goodbye Brental Floss and MC Mega Ran.
Goodbye everything that isn't already under the thumb of a major label.

[Injustrial]

Do you sell more than Grendel, Suicide Commando, Painbastard or [X]-Rx? If not, you're fine. If you are, you can probably afford the lawyers to help you out.

The thing about Fair Use is that you are allowed to make money off of it as long as you don't lessen the value of the original work and your work will not be confused with the original. Use movie samples, drum rolls, whatever. But make sure you put it into its own clear context and don't draw "potential buyers of the original away from purchasing the original work"

A lot of music uses samples from movies, radio shows, other songs etc. As long as you're not remixing a song with original stems or A Capellas, you should be fine.

Evidence:
http://fgfc820.bandcamp.com/
http://www.metropolis-records.com/artist/grendel
http://injustrial.bandcamp.com/

[Stuntddude]

It's also useful to note that, as sites go, Bandcamp is not bad about copyright shenanigans. AFAIK they have no equivalent to Youtube's ContentID system, so your stuff won't end up automatically flagged, and I don't think it's as easy for corporate peoples to reach in and take down your stuff, nor do they seem to have as much interest in bandcamp as some other sites where music is posted.

And yes, you are legally in the right to sample things as long as you don't devalue the original (like Injustrial said), but keep in mind that corporate entities love to get their fingers into things wherever they can, regardless of whether it's legal for them to do so.

I also read that Youtube is adopting a policy that will result in them rejecting music from independent artists.

This is true, although it's not really related to sampling and what this thread is about.
There's a thread for it over here.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

never let anyone tell you that 7 seconds of copyrighted material won't get you in trouble. It absolutely can and has gotten people in the shit.

[UoPoko]

Could you cite some instances of this happening?
Like, with links maybe?

[S.P.P]

Could you cite some instances of this happening?
Like, with links maybe?

Copyright holders tend to keep this stuff getting as little publicity as possible. But Biggups is right, copyright holders are 100% within their rights to screw you. However they genernally don't bother with small-time zero-to-low profit artists.

[eery]

Didnt renard have some serious copyright problems a few months back or something? I do remember reading some twitter messages where they were scared shitless and stuff.

[Stuntddude]

But Biggups is right, copyright holders are 100% within their rights to screw you.

Not within their rights, you mean. Within their abilities.

[FLAOFEI]

But Biggups is right, copyright holders are 100% within their rights to screw you.

Not within their rights, you mean. Within their abilities.

They are within their Legal rights. Moral rights is a different question, and the answer tends to vary greatly between individuals.

[Mesogears]

Wow, this really got necro'd.

That song of mine isn't even on Bandcamp anymore.

[UoPoko]

Soooo... I guess the moral of the story here is, if you sample,
make sure it's the absolute most obscure thing you can choose,
or chop it up and re-work it to the point it's unrecognizable.
Which kind of sucks if the particular thing you want to sample sounds
really good just the way it is, minus some key and tempo shifting.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8asesl3vasd4p ... justed.wav

With adjustments, this is only 5 seconds long...

[UoPoko]

Didnt renard have some serious copyright problems a few months back or something? I do remember reading some twitter messages where they were scared shitless and stuff.

So, they tried to sue him over a vocal sample that supposedly came
out of a 'royalty free' sample package... (but then again, the truth
of that is debatable, as I'm pretty sure the Amen Break has also
been thrown into some "sample packs.")

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/offici ... 4773012458

http://www.whosampled.com/sample/154758 ... ve-Man%29/

http://vimeo.com/49178494

[ph00tbag]

The Amen is definitely in at least one sample pack that went so far as to slap a big ol' © on the whole thing. Kinda shameless, if you ask me.