because i'm an absolute disaster with music, I thought I could use some advice on how to turn this "jam" into something better. im looking for suggestions too... I uploaded the cubase file so you can see what is going on... feel free to change some things, i'm just learning the program after all http://www.mediafire.com/?wch24iovb778htc
What can I say... It's like totally fine in terms of "my first thing I ever made" but lacks a catch, something to be a total smash to this one (I suppose that was meant to be the synth).
Suggestions: Make your Music FLOW, make it more than just a static bass/drums loop with occasional synth. That synth should be more than just a simple melodic stuff. Make it take over the song, not by making it obnoxiously loud, but by making a catchier melody with it. make the notes change the length (I see someponies have a problem with it) and if you make a short progressive loop, make it like reversed on each fourth repeat, that's a classic way to deal with monotony. Post Something more as the simplicity of what you made yet doesn't help me helping you
1) Try putting that synth you have in the background, and make it more of an atmospheric sound, maybe put some reverb on it. I suggest (for now) toying with any loops you may have, and try to find things that have the same ..."flow" as the ideas you have right now. While trying to write all your stuff out individually is great, its tough at first.
2) Make sure you have a melody at all time. What you have right now is actually really good, and I can hear what you're trying to achieve. I suggest taking the ideas you used now, add some things in the background. (again, loops can be your friend if you're still trying to learn)
3) eventually, try to get some more involved beats with the bass/drum. a personal preference of mine is to have intricate patterns in electronic music, always having things moving. I hear a LOT of funk elements in it, get some 16th note hi-hats in there.
4) I strongly advise against trying to reverse any types of loops, because that can really screw with the harmonies. And the synth CAN easily be a melody. In fact, I'm kinda thinking of emulating that next time i need a melody in an electronic song.
I will say again, the longer synth passages (or melodies) are very well written, especially for a start. The bass is actually pretty nice, I just grew up with jazz, funk and jazz/funk fusion, so I know wicked bass parts. And the drums is kinda clever, not gonna lie.
Whilst I completely disagree with Basch's "make sure you have a melody all the time" comment, everything else he said is spot on... Basically, this is sounding good so far, but it sounds more like a musical sketch, rather than a musical piece...paint the rest!
Tubeyou You are the hero My Little Remix deserves, not the one it needs. So we’ll hunt you. Because you can take it. Because you’re not our hero. You’re a silent guardian of music, a watchful protector of songs. A doctor of dissonance. -Phillypu
Tarby hops into the Tarbmobile, and speeds over to the location of this thread using his Tarbsense to guide his way!!!! Will he get there in time!?!
...YES. YES HE WILL!!!
Alrighty! So, I use cubase 5! It's all I use, actually; tried soundforge, didn't like it, haven't really tried anything else. Learned to record using it, and that's all I plan on using 'cause I have yet to come by any serious draw back. (It's also industry standard for MIDI use, and is only a step down in popularity from Protools)
Now, as for the song, this isn't that bad at all. My only honest suggestions are as follows, but if you don't wish to listen to them, that's perfectly fine: 1. The song is a tiny bit repetitive. Did you use loops for the drum and bass? Because if you did, try to map out the notes as MIDI and run it through the synths (GrooveAgentONE, which comes with Cubase 5 - to my knowledge, correct me if i'm wrong - is a phenomenal drum emulator, and the presets which come with cubase are great sounding and very well organized, so you can find pretty much any tone you need without much hassle, for both synths AND drums). If you did MIDI them out, try to add some variation; what I do usually is make a basic drum or bass or synth thing, usually 4 bars long, copy and paste where need be, and then just add slight variations; a fill here or there in drums, for example, at the end of the 4 bars.
2. levels. The mixer for cubase can be a pain in the ass from experience (and I HATE mixing >.> hate it. hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it.) but the slightest bit of mixing can go a long way.
The way I like to picture it is as follows:
A mix is like a 3 dimensional space, in between the two speakers. - Left and Right is the panning - Up and down is the pitch/frequency - Front to back, or depth, is level
Using this mental picture (or physical picture, because you can map out mixes using this description), you can visualize what sounds can appear like if they were three dimensional objects in a space. That being said, there are a couple of things which you need to take into consideration:
1. just like objects, two sounds cannot occupy the same space. If you have sounds of similar timbres at similar levels panned closely together, they're gonna meld and essentially become one sound. If you want something to be noticed, it's nice to slightly isolate things by spreading them out. That being said, putting things too far away from a mix can make it sound awkward as well. Now, i'm just covering the bases by telling you this; honestly, your song doesn't have any issues along those lines, but if you were to add any new tracks, you definitely wanna keep this into consideration.
2. Another thing is the issue of masking, which is something which DOES come into play with your song. Mixing isn't done necessarily by actual volume, but by apparently volume: if a flute and a chainsaw are played at the same decibel, the chainsaw would always appear louder because the harmonic structure of the sound is a LOT more chaotic and dissonant. That being said, when something in the mix is really loud, even if not played at the same level as other instruments in the mix, it can still MASK the sounds. Your synth sounds like one of the resonance leads available on Cubase, and those are really chaotic sounding, so even if the tracks are all at the same level, my suggestion to you would be to do one of two things: a) lower the level of the lead synth just a bit, and b) boost the level of the rhythm section. Now, the lead instrument will still be a lead instrument, but since nothing else is really in that frequency, you can get away with putting it at the same apparently level as the rest of the tracks, though I'd personally put it just a LIIIIIIIITLE louder than the drums and bass.
Some rules of thumb for panning: Drums - Center Bass - Center Vocals - Center, or slightly to the left or right Rhythm Guitars or rhythm synths - panned part way to the left and/or right (i like to double track my guitars, because panning twin or almost twin tracks to the left and right helps fill out the sound in between. That's just my taste, but when a mix seems dry, doing this can really help fill it out). Highhat or high pitched percussive instruments (tambourine, shaker, electronic hits) - panned almost completely to the left or right, because chances are something like that will be swallowed up by the mix otherwise. If you're gonna do portions of a drum kit individually, you should try to pan it as it is set up: high hat to the left, bass drum in the middle, snare just BARELY to the left, toms set up as they are on the kit, usually left to right from highest to lowest between the high hat and where the highhat would be if you put it on the other side, and the overheads (the other cymbals, like the crash and ride, as well as auxiliary percussion) should be panned equally within the mix, between the highhat and the lowest floor tom.
3. Weak, dry, or thin mixes aren't necessarily bad. But to help fill them out, Reverb can be a handy tool. Reverb is emulated by layering several short and sometimes even long delays over each other, giving the sound(s) a spacious feel and adding ambiance. Reverb, as well as delays and modulation effects like Flanger, Phaser, and Chorus effects, are also REALLY helpful at filling a mix. You'd actually be surprised how much of each of these are put on tracks in professional mixes, ESPECIALLY reverb. But another thing to consider is that reverb acts almost as liquid between the objects in the mix; just like sounds can swallow each other up or mask each other in the mix, reverb and effects can drown things out or smother them.
My suggestions for your song: - As I said above, try to adjust your levels. One thing you might want to try is to find a cleaner sounding synth. The sounds you have now are pretty, for lack of a better way to put it, chill and laid back (I was talking to a friend and compared it to almost a "Santana"-ish kinda thing), so one thing you might wanna do is find a smoother, bell-like synth (like a triangle or sine wave...i think xD). - if you extend it, maybe add some changes and such. Even if you don't have vocals, having a "Chorus", "Verse" and "Bridge" section planned out can help with the approach of the music (Also, you can use the arranger tool in order to help manage all the portions if you don't wish to map it all out.) Here are a few good examples of instrumental, lead-based songs (They're mainly rock, but the concept transcends genres)
Jessica - the Allman Brothers:
Soothsayer - Buckethead:
Sandstorm - Darude (even this has a different segments to it):
YYZ - Rush
My suggestion is to come up with a melody which you can use as a recurring theme in the song, and after that you can pretty much noodle and wank all you want xD
Now as for flow, your song flows fine so far. The synth melody isn't bad at all, I just still recommend making that main theme which can be used at least once more (Even if you just have two sections, A and B and have them arranged like ABA or ABABA). And as for having it take over the song, my simple response is "no." A lead is intended to be the most prominent feature, be it synth, flute, violin, guitar, voice, piano, harmonica, etc, but it is far from the whole song and should never try to be the whole song. There is a whole rhythm section (usually) for songs, which is just as important, if not more important than the lead, so they deserve just as much attention, if not more, because you can have a catchy melody line and not have a decent rhythm section to back it up.
And lastly, two notes. First: SIMPLICITY ISN'T BAD. MINIMALISM ISN'T BAD. There are artists out there who make a living on holding down one note and spend 10 minutes periodically turning the resonance or LFO knobs. You don't NEED to be Beethoven or Bach or Dream Theater or Pink Floyd or Deadmau5 to make a good song. You don't need to fill in a mix until it's bursting at the seams. You don't need pointless effects thrown in to make a song flashy. The song that first got me noticed as a musician (not even a brony musician, just a musician in my hometown) was called Subtle Delay, and it's about 6 minutes long, two verses, three choruses, a break, and a guitar solo. The whole song is just the same 4 chords over and over again, and nothing in it is complex at all. Yet it's a fan favorite of my band. If you WANT to make stuff with effects and snazzy drops and such, go right ahead, but you shouldn't feel like you NEED to in order to make a song good.
Which brings me to my second note: IT'S YOUR MUSIC. WRITE WHAT YOU LIKE! xD Fuck genres, fuck stereotypes, fuck everything. Music is art, it's an extension of you, and you should treat it as such. Don't be afraid of what others are gonna think, just write what comes to you. Don't be afraid to experiment either; you'll only find new stuff you like by trying things out. But when it comes right down to it, your music can be glitchy, it can be atonal, it can be in odd time signatures or be repetitive as holy hell, but ultimately it's your music, and nobody can say shit about it. Nobody has the right to say shit about it, either. As long as you write what you like, and aren't a cocky douchebag, people will at the very least respect you for what you do, even if your music isn't their style (cause, no matter how hard you try, you won't be able to please everyone, and even attempting to do so will get you spread thin).
I hope I was of some help xD if you have any questions about the more technical aspects of cubase, let me know; i've been using cubase 5 since it came out.
Last edited by Tarby on 12 Sep 2011 04:31, edited 1 time in total.
Hahaha I don't even go on here anymore Seriously hit me up on skype or something, I'm rarely if ever online here.
Dr_Dissonance wrote:Whilst I completely disagree with Basch's "make sure you have a melody all the time" comment, everything else he said is spot on...
Well that's because our composing is different <_< I like sensible melodies and harmonies! Not all this silly quarter tone nonsense xD
Dr_Dissonance wrote:Whilst I completely disagree with Basch's "make sure you have a melody all the time" comment, everything else he said is spot on...
Well that's because our composing is different <_< I like sensible melodies and harmonies! Not all this silly quarter tone nonsense xD
Don't be dissin the quartertones I'll send ya to the moon again
Hahaha I don't even go on here anymore Seriously hit me up on skype or something, I'm rarely if ever online here.
Dr_Dissonance wrote:Whilst I completely disagree with Basch's "make sure you have a melody all the time" comment, everything else he said is spot on...
Well that's because our composing is different <_< I like sensible melodies and harmonies! Not all this silly quarter tone nonsense xD
Don't be dissin the quartertones I'll send ya to the moon again
He'll do it! He has administrator privileges to the moon! And eww, sensible harmonies...
Tip for aap998: CLUSTER CHORDS!!!
Tubeyou You are the hero My Little Remix deserves, not the one it needs. So we’ll hunt you. Because you can take it. Because you’re not our hero. You’re a silent guardian of music, a watchful protector of songs. A doctor of dissonance. -Phillypu
by aap998 » 09 Sep 2011 03:32 
because i'm an absolute disaster with music, I thought I could use some advice on how to turn this "jam" into something better. im looking for suggestions too... I uploaded the cubase file so you can see what is going on... feel free to change some things, i'm just learning the program after all 
