<WIP><Pony><Remix> Becoming Popular (collab)

[Rainbow_Rage]

So, do remixes often change the key that the original song was in?

Because the original song is in Eb major... That's what I wrote the chords for. I personally prefer how it sounds in the original key, plus it's easier to work it in the original key since we don't have to mess with the tone of the vocal samples. I'm just saiyan.

C minor is the relative minor to Eb Major which is why it was suggested

[Matthew N.]

The main chord sounds like a freaking Windows error during the build-up. :/

[Matthew N.]

XD i don't know what that sounds like...

Trust me - don't watch this. Just for the error sound in the beginning.

[Matthew N.]

http://soundcloud.com/matthew-n/becoming-popular-wip-full

This is the full version of the WIP. Unfortunately soundcloud ruined the quality (which can be easily heard at some stages, especially during the intro with the hi-hats) - but it does not sound like that in 320kbps.

[Ed Viper]

Woooooo! It's sounding good! I'm super excited for this :3

Now I have to do some big work on it, because Matt's done the lion's share so far. My turn!

[Matthew N.]

This is also the first time my .flp has reached over 20mb in size. Damn those equalizers take a lot of space.

[Ed Viper]

After listening to the mp3 here, I'm still not exactly sure what kind of wobbly synth you're going for in the break.

[Matthew N.]

BTW, feedback required as usual.

[Belgerum]

I am not very much of a compressor/masterer/synth person, and most of what I'm hearing from that angle seems to work for me. There are some compositional issues that I think I can give you advice on.

firstly, the empty section at 2:32-38 is way too long in my opinion. Afterwards, it sounds like the entire song is restarting, or that a new song started playing. I might suggest adding ome synth or mild percussion there to fill the gap, or to just make it shorter. Or maybe just cut the entire beginning section, since the song is 9 freaking minutes long! Your call, but it's not that it's badly done, it just confuses the listener as to where you're going while the rest of the song is rather stable.

Over the entire 9-minute piece, I couldn't help but see how repetitive the entire thing is. If making it that long isn't enough, a lot of the sections seem copy-pasted, if you get my drift. This is my main issue with the track.

6:00-32 is definitely your strongest section. 6:54-7:00 and 3:09-17, are also a better moments. This is because you make these two sections unique with the instruments you add/subtract. A bunch of things can make sections sound different within a piece. Ending with 1-2 beats of silence can strengthen entrances afterwards just like a buildup, and in the same way, taking out the percussion can make a section just as tense as adding a f***ton more synth.

The synth you add at 8:06 seems underused. I can hear that only at the ending, but it has a strong presence and it brings a bit more excitement to the track. perhaps you could start by moving that about to some earlier parts of the song?

Besides such, changing lines around can also help vary the focus and make a track more interesting. Maybe the vocal melody can be given to a synth for a section? maybe you could give other syths the bassline and have the bass play a melodic part? maybe just give a different rhythm for the same chords? Or maybe be so bold as to change the tempo for a section or two? There's tons of edits you could make to each section that would make them unique, giving the piece more interest and less repetition. That's my suggestion.

Don't take my advice too seriously. I'm nowhere close to pro level, and I may be entirely wrong, but that's my opinion. take it or leave it.

[Matthew N.]

Thanks for the above, but I should comment upon your suggestions from my own prespective:

I am not very much of a compressor/masterer/synth person, and most of what I'm hearing from that angle seems to work for me.

Mastered according to sound achieved on 4 different systems and I spent about half of the total time on mastering itself, so I guess I did a pretty good job here.

Anyway, to the main part:

firstly, the empty section at 2:32-38 is way too long in my opinion. Afterwards, it sounds like the entire song is restarting, or that a new song started playing. I might suggest adding ome synth or mild percussion there to fill the gap, or to just make it shorter. Or maybe just cut the entire beginning section, since the song is 9 freaking minutes long! Your call, but it's not that it's badly done, it just confuses the listener as to where you're going while the rest of the song is rather stable.

I was aiming for a longer gap - not the longest, not the shortest. It's the time during which the reversed crash is fading out, giving the listener the time to mentally prepare for the build-up. I was thinking of adding a vocal slice from the starting vox line and also slowly fade it out ("know" part), and the more I think of it that might not be such a bad idea.

Over the entire 9-minute piece, I couldn't help but see how repetitive the entire thing is. If making it that long isn't enough, a lot of the sections seem copy-pasted, if you get my drift. This is my main issue with the track.

As for the length - progressive trance. They tend to be long, and somewhat repetitive. The uniqueness is in the transitions, automations and modulations and not, as you said it yourself: "f***ton more synth" (totally agreed, btw.) I believe you're not a fan of this kind of genre, but I might suggest you to listen to a few. On a side note: I am not a professional myself.

6:00-32 is definitely your strongest section. 6:54-7:00 and 3:09-17, are also a better moments. This is because you make these two sections unique with the instruments you add/subtract. A bunch of things can make sections sound different within a piece. Ending with 1-2 beats of silence can strengthen entrances afterwards just like a buildup, and in the same way, taking out the percussion can make a section just as tense as adding a f***ton more synth.

Totally agreed. I really do love what I did in the break between main parts. I am going to work on it a little bit more - I want to get a unique hihat sound and pattern.

Furthermore, I did use a variety of "silences" between various sections - with none of them repeating itself. They are all unique in that respect (they either have a different kick/hats pattern or both.)

The synth you add at 8:06 seems underused. I can hear that only at the ending, but it has a strong presence and it brings a bit more excitement to the track. perhaps you could start by moving that about to some earlier parts of the song?

I believe that what you hear there is the modified pad line that indeed has been used before (during the "break") - I just wanted more variety and to not repeat the entire thing from the middle of the track. It actually uses the same vst like the pad you could hear before that last section began.

Besides such, changing lines around can also help vary the focus and make a track more interesting. 1. Maybe the vocal melody can be given to a synth for a section? maybe you could give other syths the bassline and have the bass play a melodic part? 2. maybe just give a different rhythm for the same chords? 3. Or maybe be so bold as to change the tempo for a section or two? There's tons of edits you could make to each section that would make them unique, giving the piece more interest and less repetition. That's my suggestion.

1. No, no, no. That's exactly the opposite of what I was trying to achieve with this remix - unique sound with as few references to the original as possible. There are way too many of those out there.
2. Not sure if that would be such a good idea. If I wanted to change anything with those, I would have to rework the other bassline to not interfere with it.
3. It wouldn't be bold - it would be unreasonable to change the tempo of a fast-paced progressive track. Please don't take offence here - I just don't like tempo changes in electronic tracks.

Don't take my advice too seriously. I'm nowhere close to pro level, and I may be entirely wrong, but that's my opinion. take it or leave it.

Now I'm not sure how to take your advice given your last, rather unfriendly sentence.

[Belgerum]

Well, I am a classical musician, and I admit that I'm not very familiar with my other genres, but again, this is just my opinion, and you have openly asked for feedback. I am giving it to you.

I was aiming for a longer gap - not the longest, not the shortest. It's the time during which the reversed crash is fading out, giving the listener the time to mentally prepare for the build-up. I was thinking of adding a vocal slice from the starting vox line and also slowly fade it out ("know" part), and the more I think of it that might not be such a bad idea.

I can understand you want to mentally prepare people for a buildup, but as things are, I think it sounds a little too much like you are ending and restarting. If you want to fill in the space, I think that's a good idea.

As for the length - progressive trance. They tend to be long, and somewhat repetitive. The uniqueness is in the transitions, automations and modulations and not, as you said it yourself: "f***ton more synth" (totally agreed, btw.) I believe you're not a fan of this kind of genre, but I might suggest you to listen to a few. On a side note: I am not a professional myself.

Honestly, I am a fan of almost every genre there is. I just don't know a lot about them quite yet. Looking at things generally though, I tend to analyze music by the emotions and feelings desired rather than the genre. If you're looking for a relaxing track that people can zone out to, I suppose long and repetitive can be fine, but I'm not too sure of your intent here.

Furthermore, I did use a variety of "silences" between various sections - with none of them repeating itself. They are all unique in that respect (they either have a different kick/hats pattern or both.)

Well, that may be true or false, but I personally think they could stand out a bit more. I can hear a few of them, true, but they could definitely have more presence.

1. No, no, no. That's exactly the opposite of what I was trying to achieve with this remix - unique sound with as few references to the original as possible. There are way too many of those out there.

Well, this is an ambitious gesture, but the entire mix seems to focus on the vocals. True, in a different way than the original, but there seems to be little semblance of melody anywhere else in the song. Perhaps make a second melody, or a bridge? Please don't take offense. I'm just giving suggestions.

2. Not sure if that would be such a good idea. If I wanted to change anything with those, I would have to rework the other bassline to not interfere with it.

Is that such a bad thing? Reworking multiple rhythmic parts would give a different feel, making the section more unique. You don't have to, but just try it out. Maybe it'll work. Even if it doesn't, it may give you some other ideas.

3. It wouldn't be bold - it would be unreasonable to change the tempo of a fast-paced progressive track. Please don't take offence here - I just don't like tempo changes in electronic tracks.

No offense taken. there are still other changes that could be made. some suggestions I could have given are key changes, giving the bassline to other instruments, changing the drumbeat, and other things. I'm sure you would appreciate those even less. XP

And finally, I really didn't want to come across as unfriendly or rude. I really hope you didn't take offense at anything I've said. I just hope that I can give you some ideas and help improve your piece.

[Matthew N.]

Well, this is an ambitious gesture, but the entire mix seems to focus on the vocals. True, in a different way than the original, but there seems to be little semblance of melody anywhere else in the song. Perhaps make a second melody, or a bridge? Please don't take offense. I'm just giving suggestions.

I wouldn't say that it focuses on the vocals, but rather it is based on them; my melodies were supposed (and have) to not have anything in common to the vocal's melody other than main key. I hope that can be heard here.

Is that such a bad thing? Reworking multiple rhythmic parts would give a different feel, making the section more unique. You don't have to, but just try it out. Maybe it'll work. Even if it doesn't, it may give you some other ideas.

Now that I think about what you said: what do you mean by "reworking multiple rhythmic parts"? I'm sorry, but as you may have guessed, English is not my first language.

No offense taken. there are still other changes that could be made. some suggestions I could have given are key changes, giving the bassline to other instruments, changing the drumbeat, and other things.

Once again, could you specify what do you mean by every and each one of the above smaller suggestions?

I'm sure you would appreciate those even less. XP

Now why do you take things for granted and call me ungrateful? Is this why I am begging people to give me feedback? :/

I just hope that I can give you some ideas and help improve your piece.

And thank you for that. I wish there were more than just a handful of people who do like to help out.

[Whitetail]

Alright wow sorry for being so slow to get back, been kinda busy

Feedback:
Intro - way too empty in the very beginning once the "popular" part fades off. You don't need any more tonal layers in there, it just needs some ambiance to fill in the sound a bit - maybe try layering in some white noise, or like some crowd sounds (would be good for the whole "popular" aspect) or just general ambiance (wind, field recordsings, etc).

Your snare sticks out like a sore thumb since it's just so thin, it needs some more body to it - try layering in some other sounds on there with it to give it some more body, maybe a bit thumpier snare to give it more mid ranges and perhaps even a clap to make the snap a bit snappier. Also maybe a little more reverb on it in the beginning parts to give it some more body.

That silence at 3:33 seconds - absolute silence should never be held out that long in a song it just sounds weird. Just some ambiance or maybe some longer reverb, or etc. etc. Just put something, even if it's small, in there to fill in the emptiness.

Check your timing around 5:48 with the vocal snaps, you've got it in the tempo so it will probably just take some reposition but currently it sounds out of time, especially the "I'm the creme de la creme" part sounds really odd with the pluck rhythm.

The glitch section was a nice touch, actually one of the only parts you mess with panning in - try messing with panning some more throughout the whole song, and not just like using it for effect (which I do hear quite a bit) - panning is actually a rather helpful mixing tool (for example, it's quite common people pan the high hats and snare just a little opposite each other in the mix). Panning also helps make the mix feel more "wide," you're mix is a bit simplistic so there's not really all too much to mess with but it can definitely help in the future.

That solo instrument needs more edge to it, it kinda gets drowned out a bit with the other instruments. Maybe some distortion, layering with some other sounds or just generally changing the synth sound itself.


All in all the mix is pretty solid as is from what I can hear.
More personal preference than anything, but maybe make the sounds evolve a bit more throughout the song? They do evolve a bit, but still for a 9 minute progressive track I feel the texture of the song could use some more variation, texture evolution is basically what drives progressive genres and overall your main pluck that goes the whole track seems rather static - you only really play with that filter envelope, maybe mess with bit crushing it a little in some areas, or mess with the waveform or just some general other little intricacies. It doesn't need to be anything big, just some sort of constant evolution driving the sound.

[Belgerum]

Now that I think about what you said: what do you mean by "reworking multiple rhythmic parts"? I'm sorry, but as you may have guessed, English is not my first language.

By reworking rhymic parts, I mean changing the rhythm of more than one instrument to fit the whole. You mentioned that if you changed the rhythm of one instrument, then you would have to change others to fit the new rhythm. I'm just trying to point out that changing the rhythm for multiple instruments instead of just one is logical, but isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Once again, could you specify what do you mean by every and each one of the above smaller suggestions?Now why do you take things for granted and call me ungrateful? Is this why I am begging people to give me feedback? :/

Firstly, I never intended to call you ungrateful. I was just trying to point out that Some of my suggestions would clearly not be as fitting in your song if you want it to be longer and more relaxing. My first suggestion, changing the key of the song for a section or two at the end, might be both difficult to do by transposing the vocals and working so it doesn't disrupt the feel and seem to come out of nowhere. I really like to change the key signature, especially by fifths or half-steps, but considering your reaction to time changes and such, I'm not so sure it would fit here.

My other suggestions, I wasn't too sure about either. Taking the part that the bass plays and giving it to other instruments, particularly treble instruments is a cool effect, but again might not contribute well to the relaxed mood. Changing the percussion's rhythm or style could be even more disruptive.

And thank you for that. I wish there were more than just a handful of people who do like to help out.

I only wish I could represent our community better. Usually we're better than that, and have more people helping. I suppose with final exams and graduation approaching, it's been a little inactive here.

[Matthew N.]

Alright wow sorry for being so slow to get back, been kinda busy

wow... uhh... wow. thanks for replying!

Intro - way too empty in the very beginning once the "popular" part fades off. You don't need any more tonal layers in there, it just needs some ambiance to fill in the sound a bit - maybe try layering in some white noise, or like some crowd sounds (would be good for the whole "popular" aspect) or just general ambiance (wind, field recordsings, etc).

There actually is sidechained white noise going on, just not as loud as the others.

Your snare sticks out like a sore thumb since it's just so thin, it needs some more body to it - try layering in some other sounds on there with it to give it some more body, maybe a bit thumpier snare to give it more mid ranges and perhaps even a clap to make the snap a bit snappier. Also maybe a little more reverb on it in the beginning parts to give it some more body.

I'll try experimenting with that, but I remember trying to layer it way earlier in the project and the effect wasn't satisfying.

That silence at 3:33 seconds - absolute silence should never be held out that long in a song it just sounds weird. Just some ambiance or maybe some longer reverb, or etc. etc. Just put something, even if it's small, in there to fill in the emptiness.

I assume you mean 2:33. and yes, already stated by two of you guys, so I guess I'll fill it in, although the delay on the crash ends somewhat after the reversed ones kick in. This makes me thinking that your volume might have been low when listening to this piece (just like you didn't notice the white noise in the very first seconds.)

Check your timing around 5:48 with the vocal snaps, you've got it in the tempo so it will probably just take some reposition but currently it sounds out of time, especially the "I'm the creme de la creme" part sounds really odd with the pluck rhythm.

I checked it and it sounds fine / as I intended it to do. If I moved it back or forth it would disrupt the whole thing (and by that vocal slice I guess you meant it doesn't sound fine for the whole section)

The glitch section was a nice touch, actually one of the only parts you mess with panning in - try messing with panning some more throughout the whole song, and not just like using it for effect (which I do hear quite a bit) - panning is actually a rather helpful mixing tool (for example, it's quite common people pan the high hats and snare just a little opposite each other in the mix). Panning also helps make the mix feel more "wide," you're mix is a bit simplistic so there's not really all too much to mess with but it can definitely help in the future.

Actually I used panning for almost every hihat - it's just obviously not entirely to the left or right, and rather exactly in the manner you just pointed out.

As for simplicity - uhh, how many times do I have to say that I am an amateur? Definitely not something I would say to anyone, even at beginner's stage.

That solo instrument needs more edge to it, it kinda gets drowned out a bit with the other instruments. Maybe some distortion, layering with some other sounds or just generally changing the synth sound itself.

Which instrument are you referring to? 6:02 - 6:32?

All in all the mix is pretty solid as is from what I can hear.
More personal preference than anything, but maybe make the sounds evolve a bit more throughout the song? They do evolve a bit, but still for a 9 minute progressive track I feel the texture of the song could use some more variation, texture evolution is basically what drives progressive genres and overall your main pluck that goes the whole track seems rather static - you only really play with that filter envelope, maybe mess with bit crushing it a little in some areas, or mess with the waveform or just some general other little intricacies. It doesn't need to be anything big, just some sort of constant evolution driving the sound.

I am currently out of ideas, but luckily there is still plenty of time left for the final submission, so I'll mess around with it once again. The only problem I now face is the major consumption of CPU even when idle (the sound is not cracking or anything), so messing in the main project with all the shizzleload of plug-ins makes slight delays in almost everything - especially loading up / closing the track (with the latter usually crashing out since one of the presets I made got corrupted, giving me out a ton of "access violation" errors when closing.)

But yay for your input. I honestly didn't expect you to reply after this long. Once again thanks!

[Matthew N.]

Small update. What do you guys think?