IMPORTANT: The Future of Brony Music

[Senator Myth]

Hello, ladies and gentleman. We brony musicians sure are awesome, aren't we? I certainly think so. The brony music community is incredibly diverse and covers a very wide range of genres. I think that it's more productive than the music community of any other fandom. Period.

Yet the current system for distributing our music through Equestria Daily remains largely the same as it was back in late winter, when the brony music scene was almost nonexistent. We have far outgrown Sethisto's current methods of taking three tracks and putting them up in a music post once or twice a day.

We all love Sethisto. He's a good guy. And I'm sure that if we approach him with a cohesive plan, he would be willing to rethink the way he presents music on Equestria Daily.

That's what this thread is for. And since it affects all of us, all of us should participate.

Ideas for Discussion/Debate/Sh*tstorm:

--Politely ask Seth to let a member of our illustrious community onto the official Equestria Daily staff for the purpose of handling music
--Offer to be "prelisteners" for Seth, and send him the best music of the day. Music that doesn't make the cut can be critiqued and improved upon healthily by our wonderful little community until it's ready.
--Let each song have its own post
(OBVIOUSLY THESE TWO CANNOT HAPPEN BOTH AT ONCE)
--Let each musician have his or her own post, and when he/she releases a new song, have it update in a manner similar to the way a fanfiction post updates.

This is important, guys. This is about the future of brony music.
So GOGOGOGOGO discuss.

[Whitetail]

Honestly I'd think we'd be better off creating our own music distribution blog/site
EqD has essentially been specialized in fanfics, and while it puts up other things it's clear that's where the focus of the site is and all it's resources are going.

We need to make a name for ourselves that's not EqD, I just can't see EqD being the face of the music aspect of the fandom

[ArtAttack]

I'm liking the each-musician-with-their-own-post idea. It puts more attention on the individual artist.

[FriendlyNiko]

Honestly I'd think we'd be better off creating our own music distribution blog/site
EqD has essentially been specialized in fanfics, and while it puts up other things it's clear that's where the focus of the site is and all it's resources are going.

We need to make a name for ourselves that's not EqD, I just can't see EqD being the face of the music aspect of the fandom

I am agree with every word. But your point has fatal flaw: everybody don't care about blogs that is not Equestria Daily.

And browsing existing music is as important as promoting new. We need to creat huge comprehensive interactive database of all existing pony-related songs. And tag all songs.

[DJShamrock]

Well, as sort of the representative from Celestia Radio, I'd like to thank all of you guys who have taken the time to upload your latest and greatest music to us. I know that our listeners always love hearing the newest stuff, and we've had a great experience thus far since I've been DJing with you guys giving us first exclusive picks of your best WIPs.

DJAlexS and PinkieCake to name just a few who have realized the advertising potential and immediate feedback that we can provide for you guys. And not to mention, we get even more listeners when you promote us by letting us play your music! It's definitely a reciprocating benefit for all of us. If you think it would be beneficial to put up some kind of 'how to upload' guide or something in reference to how new music is given to us at CR, please let me know, I would love to help.

And as always, you can just send me your latest stuff on Skype and I'll play it live anytime I'm on air at CRadio (which is everyday).

Now, in reference to a mode of advertisement via EDaily, it is getting difficult for Sethisto to keep up with all the demands. I wonder if it would be simpler for them to have like a download link or something on their site (as a tab in the top menu) where people could access an archive of music? Possibly with a featured song of the day or something.

DJShammy

[Versilaryan]

Regardless of what outcome, we should definitely separate the music from the PMV's. They are two completely separate mediums, and I get the feeling that more people would click on the music posts if they knew for sure it was music, and not a random mix of music and PMVs. I know I certainly would have. (And if somepony makes a PMV to his/her own music, then we'll just let them decide what category to stick it in.)

I personally like the last idea best. It solves the "flood of posts" issue of each song getting its own post. If somepony decides to make a ton of different names, they have the burden of updating ALL of them or have a bunch of forgotten posts stuck way in the back, and they won't have a recognizable name to build their reputation on, and if people find out, there probably will be a minor shitstorm. And I seriously doubt the grand majority of the community would do it. So I don't think that'll be too much of an issue at all.

@Hooves: I agree. It should happen eventually, but right now, we're on short-term results. If we make our own site, we have the burden of keeping the site running as well as keeping the traffic coming so it doesn't die.

[Makkon]

Making this sticky.

I'm in favor of having a member from MLR be on the EQD team, but that will be entirely up to Seth. I feel that he values our opinion, and respects us greatly. But he's also tremendously busy, and this is likely the reason why he's implemented the current system that he has. The reason why the fan-fiction system is now the way that it is can possibly be because it came out of necessity. They were getting so much fanfiction, and they had to put a filter on it and create a new system for it.

If we were to nominate someone from MLR to be proposed as a music man on EQD, who would it be?

[Overkillius]

If we were to nominate someone from MLR to be proposed as a music man on EQD, who would it be?

I'd honestly say Makkon, but I'd also assume he is pretty busy as it is. I'd honestly take the time to do it if I thought I was qualified, but I don't even like Sadsic... so... I'm sure I have some heavy biases about music.

[Senator Myth]

Honestly I'd think we'd be better off creating our own music distribution blog/site

The problem is that Equestria Daily is where people go for their pony fix. I mean, it's that simple. Equestria Daily is NOT all about fanfiction; there's also art and plushies and news and pmvs and all sorts of other ways for people to enjoy this fandom. So even if Equestria Daily does sort of lean in the direction of fanfiction, the idea that it is a site /primarily/ for fanfiction is simply not true. It's the hub of the brony community.

>hub

It's the best place for musicians to get exposed to new listeners, and the best place for prospective listeners to find something they might be interested in. Perhaps one day we could transition to having our own site, but I think it would be far more beneficial to simply streamline the way the most influential pony site on the net presents our stuff.



Of course, like Tri said, having a comprehensive database and/or another site dedicated entirely to music would most certainly be beneficial. But despite the scary overtones of the title of this thread (that was really just to draw you in =P), this discussion is actually quite specifically about the future of Brony music as it relates to Equestria Daily. So I'd really like to hear your thoughts on that issue specifically. What I'm getting from Derpy Hooves is that he isn't really interested in altering the way Equestria Daily presents music. If I'm wrong about that then please clarify.



It seems like the idea of proposing a "one post per musician" idea to Seth is getting a lot of support. I like that idea too (since I suggested it) but if anypony has any outright objections to it, please speak up!

If we WERE to do that, however, we should most definitely approach Seth with some manner of compromise. We cannot simply ask him to do the assload of work it would take even to work back through the music queue and sort all the songs already submitted into shiny new musician posts. So we really ought to volunteer someone to do that work for him at the very least. I would nominate Makkon, since Makkon does absolutely everything and is good at it. But Makkon does absolutely everything already, so I doubt he would want to do this too.

But I think it is important that we have someone willing to do all this work we'd be proposing to Seth.



The idea of using MLR as a sort of "pre-listener" environment didn't really get much discussion from those who already posted (geez a lot of you posted fast). So what do you all think of that one?

[Tarby]

I believe a section of the site should be dedicated to music, and that each artist should have a designated post.

[Pustulioooooo]

I say both the "Individual artists get their own posts" and "Pre-listeners" are great ideas.

But just like the Pre-readers, will Pre-listener recruitment also have prerequisites in order to join?

And if so, what would they be?

[sci]

It seems like the idea of proposing a "one post per musician" idea to Seth is getting a lot of support. I like that idea too (since I suggested it) but if anypony has any outright objections to it, please speak up!

Against! Against!
Here's why:
>listen to all the tracks a musician has so far
"hmm it's alright but not really my style
>one month later: HUGE SHIFT IN STYLE, because all musicians grow and change over time (this happened to me)
>aforementioned musician keeps posting songs
"oh, the one-style-I-don't-like guy."
>audience lost because of stupid name/genre associations.

</poorly presented argument>

yeah I can't think of a better way to word that... <_<

Basically, I want to see a MIX of artists/genres in each music post.

Of course, a master list of songs for every brony musician is a great idea...just not for EqD.

Perhaps.

[Makkon]

How about several pre-listeners?

[NightColt]

How about several pre-listeners?

That could work. I mean, doesn't EqD have several pre-readers for fanfics anyway? Fics are kinda like music where since they have different genres (slice-of-life to epic fantasy to borderline clopfic VS orchestral to EDM to metal). Not everybody likes everything, so having a bunch of pre-listeners could help even out the personal bias.

Then again, I'm just saying that because I've gotten heavily mixed reactions to my own music.

[Senator Myth]

</poorly presented argument>

What I got out of that is that you're afraid that you want to trick people who don't like your music into listening to your music WITHOUT THEIR KNOWLEDGE MUHUHAHAHHA =P

No but to be serious, I don't think that's a very good reason not to introduce this new method. What you're basically saying to me (as far as I can understand) is that you don't want your music to be personally identifiable or associated with yourself. That just doesn't make sense to me, frankly.

Or maybe you're just making assumptions about the way the mind of an average listener would work. I don't think that a listener would become forever biased against a person if they didn't really prefer the style the first song they heard by them was in, at least not as vehemently as you put forth. I think I might just be misunderstanding your argument entirely, though. Which is a shame. =\

But just like the Pre-readers, will Pre-listener recruitment also have prerequisites in order to join?

And if so, what would they be?

How about several pre-listeners?

My proposal (I think I said?) was to use the community MLR as a stage of pre-listeners. Before people say BUT THAT JUST MEANS WE'LL PICK OUR OWN SONGS AND LEAVE EVERYONE ELSE OUT / WE'LL ONLY PICK SONGS FROM GENRES WE PREFER etc etc., I think our community is quite a bit more mature and supportive than that, and also quite diverse in terms of musical taste.

So people would submit music, and then we'd put it up on MLR to have people listen to it. If it attracts a lot of approval (maybe we can have an anonymous voting process, but I think a public one would be better. Just posts in the thread that say yea or neigh) then we send it on over to Seth (or our hand-selected music guy) along with the other best tracks for the next day.

Here's where the real magic happens: if it isn't as good, then we work with the original artist in our awesomely supportive environment until it's up to par. This way we aren't just a simple pre-listener service, it would be more like a workshop than anything. We would be nurturing budding talent and community growth.

Of course I haven't asked Makkon about this yet or anything. But I'm assuming that's okay, since for right now we're only brainstorming. =D

[Versilaryan]

I think Sci actually had a point. His assumption holds -- people pidgeonhole things as much as possible. It's how we remember things and how we process information. Now, the difference between a post full of one person's music and a particularly long fic is that the story is VERY likely to maintain a solid, consistent style throughout the whole thing, while a person is less likely to maintain a musical style. Putting all of someone's work into one post would enforce that pidgeonholing of style in the listener's mind.

(And before you say that the name alone would bring about that same pidgeonholing, yes, but not nearly to that extent. There's one thing to have a name attached to a bunch of individual works and another thing entirely to have a name attached to a collection of works. It's harder to draw the connection, both consciously and subconsciously.)

Now if someone becomes known for dubstep, and then decides to release some fusion jazz, people who don't like dubstep probably won't even listen to the new update because they don't like dubstep. They'll see an update in that person's post, assume more dubstep, and then skip over it. We might be able to use tags or something to help rectify that, but I do see the point in Sci's post.

EDIT: Also, I was kinda assuming more than one prelistener. Having only one (or even just a few) would spell disaster for any music that isn't to the listener's taste. >.> My problem with MLR being the prelisteners is that there is absolutely no requirement to join MLR. There are actually some pretty stringent requirements to become a prereader.

[Makkon]

Replying to the pre-listener/community workshop idea: Anything we can do to be more supportive, but for that to work we'll need to make a request to the community: take the time to listen to these songs that people are posting, and comment with thoughtful feedback. Has anyone clicked on the "View unanswered posts" at the top lately? Too many threads with new members posting music for the first time WITH NO REPLIES.
If this plan is to ever work, we'll need to step it up as a community. Myself included.

[Kumquaticus]

<Words>

... Now if someone becomes known for dubstep, and then decides to release some fusion jazz, people who don't like dubstep probably won't even listen to the new update because they don't like dubstep. They'll see an update in that person's post, assume more dubstep, and then skip over it. We might be able to use tags or something to help rectify that, but I do see the point in Sci's post.

Tags sound like a good idea if they can be implemented correctly, but I don't really see how Sci's whole argument holds ground. I can get where the ideas are coming from, but really, artists nowadays are presented like this anyway. If you don't like a group and they have a radical style change, then you still probably won't check them out. Not that there aren't problems with that, but this is how people are represented anyway, and it is a system that people are used to.

Also, what Senator Myth said. That too.

[Dr_Dissonance]

Why do I sleep when important stuff goes on?

Sci's point is extremely valid! In the more classical world, a man named Stockhausen wrote some really nasty sounding pieces (nasty in the bad way) and lots of people say that they hate his work as a result. But the man wrote many masterpieces that no one knows about because they still have their pants in a twist over his more extreme works...

So, I'm against the one musician per post thingy...

I think the pre-listener thing is a better idea, it works for EqD with fanfics (mostly)!

[Senator Myth]

...All I'm getting out of this idea against "one post per musician" is a sort of tautology: "If someone doesn't like my music, then they won't like my music!" I don't know where you guys are really even coming from here with this. It seems to me like you're saying "Butbut... I don't wanna be associated with my music. Or my music to be associated with my name." That just seems alien to me. If you improve, or your style changes, then the work will speak for itself. Word will get out. People will be willing to give you a second chance. "Oh, Senator Myth just did a dubstep track? Since the first few tracks he did were orchestral I DON'T EVEN BELIEVE YOU THAT CAN'T POSSIBLY BE TRUE AND I REFUSE TO LISTEN TO IT."

I am most certainly not trying to be confrontational about this, but I just honestly don't see what you guys mean.

But that's okay! If we decide not to go with the one post per musician idea, then that means a lot less work for Sethisto/Our Appointed EQD Musician.

Let's continue focusing discussion on the pre-listener aspect. Some people are talking about qualifications, and that makes sense to me.

Perhaps we should make the qualifications for having your vote actually count in the process something like "If you have had at least two songs appear on Equestria Daily." Or YouTube subscriber count. I don't know, what qualifications make sense to ya'll?

And what methodology? How exactly will the prospective tracks be delivered to and voted on by the prelistener(s)? Just threads in a forum, maybe?

I'm glad we all basically agree on one thing: we really should have a selection of songs (say 5-6 at the most) for each day that we think showcases the best our community has to offer, and that thus deserve feature posts on Equestria Daily.

But guys, seriously, just shooting down my dumb ideas does not a discussion make. If you have any solutions to propose, don't be shy.

[Bagpipe Brony]

I don't know guys...the recent idea ya'll came up with is sounding good but at the same time this whole thing is kinda unnerving me.
And I know what you mean about the view unanswered posts Makkon, I recently have wanted to post a discography but not much point in doing so if no one's gonna see it /=

[Kumquaticus]

@Bagpipe, I'm trying to remedy the whole unanswered post thing right now by going around listening and commenting, and I'd love to hear your stuff. Post it!

[Dr_Dissonance]

Stuff about the 'one post per musician' thing

It's the whole idea of first impressions...if someone listens to their first piece by you and they don't like it, what are the chances that they'll return when they see your name?
Stockhausen example again; he wrote some nasty pieces, people were like "Eww!" and then refused to listen to anything else by him, even though they were amazing...

Same applies to us: if one of us writes a dubstep first, all the dubstep haters won't come back, even if you switch to, say, trance...because they associate your name with music they don't like...

But anyway, I think the pre-listener thing and daily awesome music is a much better idea.

And I just re-read what Makkon said (shows how much I pay attention) and I completely agree...
If we want this to work, we actually have to listen to each other's works outside of The Remix War and The Pony Compo! There's no point even trying this if we don't listen to the works here and become more of a community!

[Versilaryan]

@Senator: You're just being far too optimistic about it. Yes, word will travel /if/ you travel in circles that talk about it (EG, us and similar sub-communities). You severely underestimate how much stereotyping and pidgeonholing goes on in a person's mind -- it literally is how we store information. I'm not joking around or exaggerating when I say this. =P And unless we take the time to learn, and make our little personal stereotypes and pidgeonholes a lot more varied, we'll be stuck with the general pidgeonhole we started with -- the first impression.

I'm in favor of the prelisteners idea, now.

It would be best if we figured out how the prereader system works and worked from there. I'd imagine it'd be something like: people submit music to EQD, the prelisteners listen and voice what they have to say, and then someone makes the decision whether or not to post it to EQD. How the music gets from EQD to the prelisteners and back is beyond me -- I say that when we suggest this idea to Seth, we use whatever system the prereaders do, just to make it easier to integrate.

[Stars In Autumn]

I think the pre-listener way is best. Embedding music into the browser without showing who wrote it (unless they had their name in the video) seems pretty good. And if the listener likes the song, they can navigate to your youtube and look at the other stuff you've done.

I'd like to nominate myself for being a pre-listener, because that'd be fun and I got the time.

We can vote on what we would like to suggest to Seth though.