Just got shafted by EQD (EDIT)

[Tsyolin]

My own two cents on the issue: I honestly don't care. If my music gets accepted, it does, if it doesn't it doesn't. I don't get satisfaction out of getting attention and praise from larger numbers of people, or from getting views or subscriptions, and I don't need my work to be showcased on a brony billboard, I feel just fine being beside another artist in a post. I write music because I love music. I write what I want, and I enjoy associating with people who also love music. There's nothing more to it than that for me.

It would be nice if everyone thought that way. Unfortunately, we as humans always have some sort of want to gain attention by any means possible.

[Tsyolin]

1. I hate describing pony relation with the word "quality" (not to say there doesn't need to be some kind of control)
2. I'd honestly rather send through a non-pony track once in a while since it happens with other tracks that we don't judge anyway, and it would REALLY keep us from turning down earnestly pony tracks that we might deem "un-pony".

1. Sorry, it was just an expression, I wasn't referring to quality in general.
2. Honestly I would probably never do this. Sending non-pony music through just to appease to musicians will get the wrong message across. People will see a non pony song get posted and go "HURR DURR, I can just make whatever I want now and they'll take it!". I know Seth posts a lot of stuff on his own but again, we don't control Seth. What he posts on his own is up to him.

[bartekko]

2. Honestly I would probably never do this. Sending non-pony music through just to appease to musicians will get the wrong message across. People will see a non pony song get posted and go "HURR DURR, I can just make whatever I want now and they'll take it!". I know Seth posts a lot of stuff on his own but again, we don't control Seth. What he posts on his own is up to him.

You realize overkillius meant that your standarts are too strict, right?

You should read it as "your standards are so strict you sometimes drop pony songs fearing it being not-pony" and not as "you should let all songs through"

[Vedrim]

vedrim I have nothing against you. what you did was question the way we prelisten which is still not perfect. your e-mail got us discussing many things. I personally think that your e-mail helped us a bit more in finding out what our actuall boundry is for the question: "is it pony enough?"

I'm glad to hear that, thanks. Moreso, I'm happy to hear that at the end of the day I've had a positive impact through this whole debacle. Prior to Seth's post a few weeks ago, I (and I have to assume at least a few others) had no idea that prelisteners were even a thing, so if in my quest for transparency and understanding I came across at any point as condescending then I apologize, as it wasn't my intention.

Never has this been true, never will it be. Keep working on music and sending it our way as it get's done. Being denied should never be discouraging.

I do apologize for not being able to discuss this on skype due to my awkward work and sleep schedule (11pm to 7am Monday-Friday), but as previously stated I do appreciate the invitation to do so and might hit you up at some point in the future anyway =). Also relevant, I couldn't find this in my sent box for some reason when I posted a few pages back, but here was my response to Icky responding to my response to Cyril (RESPONCEPTION). I think it does a good job of conveying everything else I wanted to write in this post:

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"I wasn't there for this particular pre-listen session, so I looked up the song and I am really impressed!"
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Thanks =).

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"I can see why they rejected it though, there isn't any clear theme going on. I can definitely hear the Ingram and Anderson elements in there, but there are plenty of other shows and games this song could be about.

It sounds like you emulated Ingram and Anderson's style of music, but that does not make a song MLP related."
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Fair enough, I can understand that.

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"That being said, I will talk about this with Cyril and the other pre-listeners because I'm really on the fence on this one. Its an amazing song, and it really has the MLP show feel to it."
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While I really do appreciate the thought there, you don't need to; Cryil already told me it was rejected, and I am more than happy to live with that verdict.

In fact, I wouldn't want it to be posted after having already been rejected; the only reason I resubmitted it was because I was under the impression that Seth had forgotten about it (since I didn't know pre-listeners existed until yesterday's roundup).

Anyway, the reason I sent that long response to Cyril and forwarded it to all of you guys was because I just wanted to get some more insight as to *why*, since the feeling I got from his initial response was "not pony enough, it was rejected twice, don't bother", which wasn't quite the kind of community I was hoping to become a part of in time.

I understand it's not feasible for you guys to write out an essay in response to every rejection, and I know it gets annoying when people with special snowflake syndrome complain when they aren't treated like rockstars (I work in the hospitality industry, so trust me, I know how people can get). It was not my intention to come across as such, and I hope I didn't; my goal was to merely gain additional insight as to why my piece was rejected by a committee I had no idea existed until yesterday.

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"Even if this gets rejected don't let that hold you down, you are definitely talented and I'd love to hear more MLP related music from you!"
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Thanks; I've already accepted that it was rejected and I've already moved on from it, so no worries there, and it's not going to stop me in the least from continuing to make music. I've got a couple of professional projects on my slate at the moment, so it would be foolish of me to give those up because one guy didn't think I fit a particular thematic guideline =).

In closing, like many others, I've been reading EQD for a long time and simply saw this as an opportunity to get involved in what always appeared as a talented and supportive community. I had my doubts after Cyril's initial response, but in retrospect I likely wound up mistaking his objectiveness for abrasiveness.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond, it's much appreciated.

- Scott (Vedrim)

[Overkillius]

2. Honestly I would probably never do this. Sending non-pony music through just to appease to musicians will get the wrong message across. People will see a non pony song get posted and go "HURR DURR, I can just make whatever I want now and they'll take it!". I know Seth posts a lot of stuff on his own but again, we don't control Seth. What he posts on his own is up to him.

Ha! valid point! I definitely see people exploiting that, but what I was trying to say is that "pony" is still so incredibly subjective, and that we are still being somewhat strict in that regard. It is pretty much impossible to fairly judge though.

Consider this. If we are posting things that people on EqD will like, then why should they not like something that is still good music? Actually why did I ask that question? I remember when Makkon's non-pony bell thingy got posted, what people generally said about it was essentially "not-pony, but it was awesome!" Obviously they enjoyed it. Now while I'm not saying that we should post tracks that are obviously not pony, There are still some tracks where the artists are earnestly inspired by ponies to make the track, and we the pre-listeners then tell them "No you weren't". Just imagine yourself in that position. Who are we to say what really inspired the artist? It's been happening all the time.

[Overkillius]

2. Honestly I would probably never do this. Sending non-pony music through just to appease to musicians will get the wrong message across. People will see a non pony song get posted and go "HURR DURR, I can just make whatever I want now and they'll take it!". I know Seth posts a lot of stuff on his own but again, we don't control Seth. What he posts on his own is up to him.

You realize overkillius meant that your standarts are too strict, right?

You should read it as "your standards are so strict you sometimes drop pony songs fearing it being not-pony" and not as "you should let all songs through"

YOU'RE IN MY BRAIN... I'm all right with this, just get your own stuff for the mini fridge. Yes, you can use the milk, just don't drink out of the carton.

[Tsyolin]

You realize overkillius meant that your standards are too strict, right?

You should read it as "your standards are so strict you sometimes drop pony songs fearing it being not-pony" and not as "you should let all songs through"

To me, it either is pony or it isn't. There is no, "fearing of whether or not it is pony". But again, everyone judges a different way. I can't force anyone on the team to judge a certain way. We are a team for a reason. If I'm not sure if a track is pony, I'd usually vote yes.

[Rainbowdutch]

Why am I somewhat proud of thi threat?

[MicTheMicrophone]

Why am I somewhat proud of thi threat?

Because we're all coming to a mutual understanding in a civil and open discussion in which we're not just closed-mindedly bashing each other as a means to justify our opinions of how this system should be run?

Or was it because I called myself a faggot? Either way, A+ discussion. Would gladly participate again.

[Tsyolin]

Because we're all coming to a mutual understanding in a civil and open discussion in which we're not just closed-mindedly bashing each other as a means to justify our opinions of how this system should be run?

Or was it because I called myself a faggot? Either way, A+ discussion. Would gladly participate again.

Yes quite.

[Mundius]

Dear Princess Makkon, (I gave up after the friendship report post)

Fuck Equestria Daily, their prelisteners are stuck in a broken system. I'm going to keep writing music, just because I can. I don't care for fame, I don't care for profit, I care for every other fucking pony. I was right.

Your friendly neighbourhood troll (that'll probably get banned),
NeX

[Solarsail]

Bumping this thread because of today's EqD post. In Wonder by Aviators.

http://www.equestriadaily.com/2012/04/v ... onder.html

It gets its own post and image, but it doesn't meet hardly anyone's criteria in this thread for pony music. The song doesn't sound especially pony, no samples or motifs, none of the lyrics mention any character, event or setting, and the song title doesn't.

The song context says "You know the B.B.B.F.F. song? Well this is pretty much Shining Armor's version of it. A song from the perspective of an older brother watching his little sister grow up... I have a sister too, and she was definitely the inspiration for this song. She's pretty awesome, and this is not only a pony song, it's a song dedicated to her."

So it's about his actual sister, and the connection is that there was recently a sibling related song in a pony episode?

I know Aviators is an awesome musician who has done a lot of specific pony work (that does deserve posting!), and I love this song, but this seems like double standards on the part of EqD. If anyone but Aviators had made this song, it wouldn't have been posted at all never mind got its own post.

[Legion]

... Alright, I'm not going to lie. I'm not EQD's biggest fan for a lot of reasons, a couple instances in particular piss me off. I agree that EQD has different standards based on how well known the artist is, that's long established. But I'm failing to see how this is not pony enough. Does he specifically state how it relates to the show? Yes. It's fairly specific in its content. Just because he ties real life into it does not immediately disqualify it from being pony enough in any circumstance. As long as it ties into the show, I really don't see the problem here. Now, if it was something that obviously had ponies half-assed into it, like the 20-millionth 'Fluttershy Dubstep' song (yes, I'm using that example), that'd be a different story. But it's safe to say that this isn't EQD throwing up some random famous person's music.

[Solarsail]

It doesn't tie into the show. Can I write any love song that would work on normal radio, and claim it's pony. No lyrics mention, no title mention, and say that it's "pretty much" for Hearts and Hooves Day? It even says real life was the inspiration!

If that is how low their pony standard is, then fine, but stop rejecting other songs for the stated reason they are not pony enough.

I was seriously on the side of "doesn't have to have samples or lyrics to be pony" in this debate but if you look back, I lost. And now it's fine? As long as the creator says it's pony in the description it is in fact pony?

[Freewave]

I think Aviators explained it fine. He expanded on the ponyverse and put forth what a character would sing as an alternative to the BFFF song. It's an exact episode reference and lyrically it fits (it doesn't need to give a pony's name int here). That's a good thing and a creative concept. Just cause it ties into a real life influence (something he could also sing to his sister) doesn't detract from that and musically its well....awesome. Sure Aviators may not need a spotlight as much as smaller artists but that's not a reason not to include his track, just more of a reason that they should also include some other stuff they might not have put on there this week (cough cough).

Just so your aware this track was (I believe) debuted on Ponyville radio last night with a whole IRC chat with him to a whole load of brony fans so there was certainly a bigger clamour over that then your average pony track which was kind of cool. And it deserves to be spotlighted as it's a great piece of music.

[Solarsail]

And it deserves to be spotlighted as it's a great piece of music.

It is a great piece of music. If every great piece of music was on EqD it would cease to function. I'm trying to find out what constitutes pony enough to post, because statements made earlier in this thread by the prelisteners don't really match up with this.

If this song is "pony enough" but

- No samples
- No motifs
- No pony references in lyrics
- No pony reference in title
- No attempt to imitate a show genre or style
- "I have a sister too, and she was definitely the inspiration for this song."
- If I told you any pop song was pony you could say it fits lyrically. That makes no sense. Of course every show has sibling bonding moments, just as it does for any other song subject. In the other songs of his, he makes some attempt to make it about a show pony, reference the show's events or similar.
- It's what X song would be if it was Y is literally his only justification. Since it bears no resemblance to BBBFF other than the same relationship being described, that's weak.

So a few thousand more songs need to be retroactively put on EqD. Or is it only if they're by popular artists? The prelistener comments earlier in the thread made it pretty clear they don't do that.

[CommandSpry]

Well, this is what I have to say;

If Aviators' song is pony enough to make it onto the site, then I'd also like this song to be on there:



It's about Princess Cadence and Shining Armor, but the inspiration was my girlfriend.

See the problem these guys are having? For example, if this song above was called "Shining Armor's ballad", it would HAVE to be accepted if they accepted Aviators' work.

Now I'm not saying that Aviators' song shouldn't have been accepted, I think it's the right thing, but then you must accept ALL other songs of the simmilar nature as pony enough. If you don't, you are making double standards, and trust me, you DO NOT want to make these.

Just a kind-hearted suggestion, EqD prelisteners ^^

[5COPY]

I'm not afraid to admit that I'm jelly on those with more success than me. But music should be fun, or is it all really just one big competition?

I am jelly, very jelly. The jellyness is extremly big inside of me. But oh well... I try to find the fun in what I do, it what keeps be going.

[Navron]

It's less on the jealousy part, and more on the, "Why are 5 lesser known musicians making pony songs getting lumped together in a single post with 10 replies while a famous musician makes a non-pony or barely pony song and getting a dedicated feature and 100 replies?"

[5COPY]

Actually very true statement. That actually somewhat bothers me.

[Legion]

Well, if we're arguing about whether it should've gotten its own post, yeah, that's pretty questionable. I honestly don't like single-song posts in the first place, really. They are exclusively for well-known artists and only lengthen the boundaries between them and the artists in the usual compo music posts. But that's just a personal gripe, really.

However, one thing I've always questioned that I never felt was worth reviving the thread over is what to do about 'meta' songs, if you will. Stuff that has to do with the community or the artists making them, but not about the show. Take, for example, Obsolete. Is it by bronies? Yes. Does it reference ponies? Yeah. Is it really, really good? Definitely. But does it have a single thing to do with the show? Not at all. Also consider One Trick Pony, Big Blue Wave, etc. etc.

[MatthewMosierMusic]

I'm going to start sending my songs to EquetsrianBeat.com as well as EqD. I think that site needs more popularity. A site like EqD but strictly for music is a great idea and should be spread around.

[Pickslide1992]

That kind of bother me too, Navy. It's not so much the popularity (Mainly because I'm slowly ascending the ladder myself), but rather they clump together a few underrated artists and only get a few thousand views if they're lucky while big name guys can release a cover of an obscure 60s basement rock song with no ponified lyrics but get a dedicated post and 10s of thousands of views without any scrutiny from these prelisteners while the former have to undergo a battery of tests to see if it's "pony enough," even if the influence and inspiration is clearly there.

It's that reason alone why I don't waste my time with EQD anymore. I strictly use Facebook and Soundcloud.

[Applejinx]

I'm gonna beat my hooves against EqD one more time- tryin' to work the Steve Martin trick of be so good they can't ignore you, or dyin' tryin'... found another WoodenToaster song I loved, did it up with the crispness that I did Wing Power with, let's see what happens. Hell, WT is followin' my tumblr, I want to see if this even works. If it don't, something's peculiar over there.



Off to throw this at 'em.

[CommandSpry]

Hmm I don't think they'll accept a Beyond her Garden remix, since there was 2000 of these, so they'll likely turn that away, not because of you or the quality of the remix, but just by the shere amount of these.

That said, I do agree that popular artists get ahead, ehm, "unfairly" with their single posts (TLT's Smile remix, for example), while fantastic songs get mixed into 5 song posts that at least 5 times less people check out, probably even more.

I think that you should remove the idea of a single music post, or at least, stop posting songs from famous musicians just beacuse they are that, and put amazing tracks from all kinds of musicians, you know, if there is one that sticks out from the amazing music out there (: