Songwriting Help thread

Discuss tips, tricks, and the creative process of music creation. Post HELP threads here

Songwriting Help thread

Postby topitmunkeydog » 11 May 2013 22:23

Well I posted a query in the Spam thread asking for songwriting advice. But it's probably something most of us need a bit of help with, so look to here if you need advice. If you have advice, share it here. About lyrics WIPs, I think that it would do us well to have a seperate thread for that, if we don't already.
Well here's a lot of help that Lying Pink gave me. Hope nobody minds this copypasta:

Lying Pink wrote:
topitmunkeydog wrote:Does anyone have advice for writing lyrics? Whenever I do they come out too pretentiousy wordy (like of Montreal; Jacques Brel) or just plain terrible (think of bad pop music.)
I'd like my lyrics to be sincerely sweet, with an authentic level of cheesy. If you've heard Forever by Yougblood Hawke or Hone by Edward Sharpe then you know what I mean. I seem to be at opposite ends of a spectrum when is rather be in the middle.


Off the top of my head, a good place to start is the chorus (if you want to write a song with a chorus, that is), since they provide the crux of the song. If you're just writing about an emotion or whatever, that's the point where you state the emotion in the most unambiguous way -- the two examples you mentioned seem to fit this pattern. If the song is a story, the chorus is the most important bit of the story, or the bit that ties the whole thing together. Or, you could do a mix: the verses telling a kind of story, each verse moving on from the last, and the choruses driving home the 'point' of it (like 'Common People' by Pulp, for example - although it's structure is a little more complex than just verse-chorus-verse-chorus). Once you have the chorus down, you've kind of got the heart of what you want to be writing about, which gives you something to work from, and you can do some variations on that in the verses.
Um... a good thing to try if you want "occasionally cheesy but not too wordy" might be an overarching metaphor or symbol of some kind (try to pick one that hasn't been done to death. "My world was black and white and then I fell in love with you and everything was colourful", for example. Don't do that). $29.00 by Tom Waits, for example -- it's a story about a young woman who moves to the big city and gets mugged. The "29 dollars and an alligator purse" that act as a chorus in it get woven into the story at regular intervals and each time help to drive home how out of depth the character is, and the fact that all she is to the city around her is the money she's carrying. The story goes to other places, but it always comes back to those $29, and that gives it direction and coherence.
Also worth considering is just carrying a notebook around with you and jotting down anything you think sounds good, so you can use it later in a song. Some of the poems I'm most proud of have started off as a couple of lines I've come up with when I've been on the bus.

Oh also, things to bear in mind if you don't want to be too wordy: there are a lot of things that used in the right places and in the right amounts sound awesome, but if you use them too much your writing sounds flowery and bloated. If you're going to use adjectives and adverbs, similes, metaphors, allusions to other songs... do so carefully. Go through your lyrics and ask yourself about each of those that you come across: is it necessary? Does it add something to the song? Could it be said better if I removed that simile/said it differently?

Oh plus basic things like try not to move word order around too much (e.g. "Saturday was moving slow / To the market I did go". Ugh), create a rhyme where one of the rhyming words is clearly just there 'cause you couldn't think of anything else (there's always another way of articulating it -- find a different set of words, even a different way of getting the point across in that particular sentence), or write something that sounds weird and topsy-turvy when you say it out loud. You get a bit of leeway in song lyrics, but it still almost always just sounds clumsy.

topitmunkeydog wrote:Also someone should just start a thread about lyrics writing.

Funny you should mention that. I was thinking of starting a thread in the doodles & scribbles subforum seeing if people would be interested in a kind of songwriting prompt thing, where for a month, I'd post a bunch of song prompts a week or so in advance, one for each day, and people could use those as a starting point for writing songs, and then post them in the thread if they wanted feedback, and then spend the last week of the month taking one or two of the songs they were most proud of and polishing them into a finished whole.
topitmunkeydog
 
Posts: 621
Joined: 02 Jan 2013 13:43
Location: the people's republic of freak
OS: macaroni
Primary: (trying to learn) ableton
Cutie Mark: yes

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby JSynth » 12 May 2013 07:03

1. I already like this thread.

2. Write down everything. No matter how cheesy its sounds at first, jot whatever you come up with (or record if you prefer). Sometimes I find that a poor line can actually be used to create a much better line during revision.

3. Learn to format your lyrics. We all know what a chorus is and what a verse is, but within those, there are different ways to format your lines. Having four lines that sound exactly the same will sound repetitive and a little boring.
https://soundcloud.com/jasper-synth/back-at-me
Jokeblue wrote:You fool. You've doomed the Spam thread to yet another, inevitable :3 spam.

My Tumblr
My YouTube
My SoundCloud

DAW: Logic Pro 9
Plugins: Sylenth, Sausage Fattener, Komplete 9, NI The Mouth, Ozone 5, Bitspeek
User avatar
JSynth
 
Posts: 726
Joined: 12 Dec 2012 10:48
Location: not in the snow anymore
OS: Not Windows
Primary: Logic 9
Cutie Mark: yo face

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby itroitnyah » 12 May 2013 07:11

JSynth wrote:2. Write down everything. No matter how cheesy its sounds at first, jot whatever you come up with (or record if you prefer). Sometimes I find that a poor line can actually be used to create a much better line during revision.
With this piece of advice, learn music theory. If you come up with a cool bassline riff, writing down "da-da daaaa daaaa" won't help you, lol
Image Image I am no longer an active member. here
My studio: [List of equipment]
User avatar
itroitnyah
 
Posts: 2482
Joined: 02 Mar 2012 20:27
OS: Windows 7
Primary: FL Studio 11
Cutie Mark: Blank flank

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby Lying Pink » 12 May 2013 08:34

Not to hijack the thread ((I'm totally hijacking the thread, oh well)) but that bit I mentioned at the end of the quote in the OP about the prompts, etc.: would anyone be interested in that?

Also, this thread should be fun :D
Fnord.
Soundcloud | Tumblr | Skype | YouTube | Email
/)__~
</</
User avatar
Lying Pink
 
Posts: 313
Joined: 15 Dec 2012 19:00
Location: United Kingdom
Primary: Reaper
Cutie Mark: Knees

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby topitmunkeydog » 12 May 2013 09:34

YES do it! I would love a thread like that. We also need a third thread that's just copypasta lyrics dump and you give advice.

Also if you don't know music theory yet and you'd like to remember it, I'd suggest recording yourself humming it or playing it on the kazoo or whatever on your iPhone if possible. But learning music theory is great. It's helpful and also real instruments are real good fun.

So yeah I've started doing the write down everything thing and I write a lot of stuff when I'm about to fall asleep so the next morning I'll read it without remembering anything of what I had written and it usually turns out really hilarious. My favorite: "Cliché is French for FABULOUS!"
topitmunkeydog
 
Posts: 621
Joined: 02 Jan 2013 13:43
Location: the people's republic of freak
OS: macaroni
Primary: (trying to learn) ableton
Cutie Mark: yes

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby JSynth » 12 May 2013 10:03

itroitnyah wrote:
JSynth wrote:2. Write down everything. No matter how cheesy its sounds at first, jot whatever you come up with (or record if you prefer). Sometimes I find that a poor line can actually be used to create a much better line during revision.
With this piece of advice, learn music theory. If you come up with a cool bassline riff, writing down "da-da daaaa daaaa" won't help you, lol


I was referring towards the lyrical content but yeah...
https://soundcloud.com/jasper-synth/back-at-me
Jokeblue wrote:You fool. You've doomed the Spam thread to yet another, inevitable :3 spam.

My Tumblr
My YouTube
My SoundCloud

DAW: Logic Pro 9
Plugins: Sylenth, Sausage Fattener, Komplete 9, NI The Mouth, Ozone 5, Bitspeek
User avatar
JSynth
 
Posts: 726
Joined: 12 Dec 2012 10:48
Location: not in the snow anymore
OS: Not Windows
Primary: Logic 9
Cutie Mark: yo face

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby colortwelve » 12 May 2013 11:01

Here's a bit I picked up from AP Lit, it's more directed to poetry, but good lyrics tend to be more poetic anyway - writing in verse is about creating an experience. Every device you use should contribute to that, to making a sort of journey that's only enhanced when you add appropriate music. Sure, you can interject your speaker's own perceptions of what's going on, but even in that you can use devices to spin those a certain way. Good lyrics, like a good poem, can have multiple meanings depending on who listens to them, and the way to make sure that happens is to make sure that the most unambiguous part of your song is what happens, not what it means.
Youtube -- Soundcloud -- Tumblr -- Bandcamp (new album out!)

I can't feel my brain.
User avatar
colortwelve
 
Posts: 1187
Joined: 18 Feb 2012 12:55
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby Mr. Bigglesworth » 12 May 2013 17:39

I find that watching short films really helps me become a little more creative.
Example: I love dystopian films, after watching them I get ideas for that kinda lyrical thing.
You could apply this to all sorts of genres (presumably).

Also, sometimes imagining a little tune first helps.
I'm not here anymore, but if you want you can still just call me Mr. BigBagelBoggle!

Sound
Face
You
User avatar
Mr. Bigglesworth
 
Posts: 1869
Joined: 19 Apr 2012 03:17
Location: Toowoomba, Australia
OS: Windows 7
Primary: FL Studio
Cutie Mark: My own ass

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby Mr. Bigglesworth » 12 May 2013 17:43

Of course you could always go down the shitty pop road.

"We havin' our night
We gonna do it right
our night
our night"

etc.
I'm not here anymore, but if you want you can still just call me Mr. BigBagelBoggle!

Sound
Face
You
User avatar
Mr. Bigglesworth
 
Posts: 1869
Joined: 19 Apr 2012 03:17
Location: Toowoomba, Australia
OS: Windows 7
Primary: FL Studio
Cutie Mark: My own ass

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby topitmunkeydog » 13 May 2013 23:02

God that was awful
I have the terrible feeling that it could be a hit
Bigglesworth you sadist
topitmunkeydog
 
Posts: 621
Joined: 02 Jan 2013 13:43
Location: the people's republic of freak
OS: macaroni
Primary: (trying to learn) ableton
Cutie Mark: yes

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby Mr. Bigglesworth » 14 May 2013 00:11

Yeeees
your pain sustains me :3
I'm not here anymore, but if you want you can still just call me Mr. BigBagelBoggle!

Sound
Face
You
User avatar
Mr. Bigglesworth
 
Posts: 1869
Joined: 19 Apr 2012 03:17
Location: Toowoomba, Australia
OS: Windows 7
Primary: FL Studio
Cutie Mark: My own ass

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby S.P.P » 14 May 2013 15:25

NEVER delete any WIP, no matter how much you don't like it. You might be able to make something awesome out of it in a couple months time in a fit of inspiration.

If you're not happy with how it sounds; it's not done.

Learn some basic theory. Even if it's only how to read and write so you can take notes. But theory can help a helluva lot with writing moody melodies.

When you're remixing, you DON'T HAVE TO USE ALL THE STEMS! Srsly, this helped me out out a lot.

I suck at advice.
User avatar
S.P.P
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: 26 Mar 2013 04:08
Location: England
OS: Windows 10
Primary: FL Studio, Ableton, Pro Tools

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby Lying Pink » 14 May 2013 16:06

All good advice :)
Although this thread is more focused on lyric-writing, most of your advice holds true for lyrics too, I'd say.
Fnord.
Soundcloud | Tumblr | Skype | YouTube | Email
/)__~
</</
User avatar
Lying Pink
 
Posts: 313
Joined: 15 Dec 2012 19:00
Location: United Kingdom
Primary: Reaper
Cutie Mark: Knees

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby Ocular » 16 May 2013 05:39

Sorry to burst your bubble guys, but lyrics go in the "Doodles and Scribbles" section.
inactive
User avatar
Ocular
 
Posts: 453
Joined: 21 Jan 2013 11:23

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby Mr. Bigglesworth » 16 May 2013 05:45

This is song writing help. Which falls under technique.

if it were "Show us your lyrics" or something it'd go in doodles.
I'm not here anymore, but if you want you can still just call me Mr. BigBagelBoggle!

Sound
Face
You
User avatar
Mr. Bigglesworth
 
Posts: 1869
Joined: 19 Apr 2012 03:17
Location: Toowoomba, Australia
OS: Windows 7
Primary: FL Studio
Cutie Mark: My own ass

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby Stu Beef » 16 May 2013 22:24

Post ver. 0.1


The last time I did a big ol' effort post I got 0 response, but this time somebody asked me to do it
SO HERE GOES!

In this post I attempt to tell you how to write good lyrics. Why you ask? It's probably because yours are super bad. LET'S FIX THAT RIGHT NOW!!!



-------------------------SECTION 1---------------------------
Though there is no exact science to expression, just as there is no real way to measure its effect on you, we've come up with handy ways over the years to define the tools which we use to verbally create. I tried to think back to my high school English classes, where we "learned" to read poetry, to see if I could recall all those exact details; I was not successful. So, instead of trying to do that I looked up something I could use to reference, this seems handy: http://bcs.bedfordstmartins.com/virtual ... ments.html

The link itself would be nice to check out to see short definitions and examples of these literary devices on top of what I say about them.

So let's basically go down the list and talk about these elements (the link has them in alphabetical order...my order is based on something...I'll tell you what it is later), though I've omitted and altered some things:

Cadence-

The link calls it meter, I'm gonna call it cadence so THERE. This is basically how your rhythm is structured. Ok, there, we're done, that's it, go home.

Yeah of course there's more to it than that, dammit.

We live in the 21st century, everything and everything has associations and you are at least somewhat aware of all of them. Certain styles of music communicate different things, and to create a specific Affekt-(some kind of feeling/emotion) the lyrics might reflect some kind of (wow) style!

Check this passage out:


a violent flood that stains the night
a cry before the morning light
a vicious tearing of the skin
a monster lurking deep within
no pressure can withstain the fold
leviathon of measured mold
it harkens me to steal my breath
medly of death


Obviously, there's more than rhythm going on there, but ignore that for now.
So if we were in English class and I was Mr. Monotone, I'd probably have you mark the stressed/unstressed syllables, but fuck that, this is MUSIC SON. If you read it aloud, you'll notice that this verse HEAVILY emphasis 4/4 time (if you don't know what that is I feel bad for you son, I got a shit load of problems but you've got a ton). The syllables are constant 8th notes (except in the very first line, but we can overlook that in the context of a song) and the stressed syllables fall on every downbeat. We can also look at it like this (if you really want):

a violent flood that stains the night
a cry before the morning light
a vicious tearing of the skin
a monster lurking deep within


where you stress the bolded portion of the words, but again, the rhythm should be intuitive from when you read it.

ULTIMATELY ALL LYRICS YOU WRITE SHOULD HAVE INTUITIVE RHYTHMIC STRUCTURE TO THEM, EVEN WITHOUT A MUSICAL IDEA IN MIND. IT CERTAINLY ISN'T NECESSARY, AND HONESTLY YOU'LL PROBABLY GET A COOLER RESULT IF THERE ISN'T AN OBVIOUS RHYTHM TO IT, BUT...YOU HAVE TO DO SOME SPECIFIC THINGS MUSICALLY TO MAKE IT WORK


Ok, so the passage has got an incredibly regular rhythmic structure that translates to constant 8th notes in 4/4 time, so what? Well, other than it being pretty cheesy composition, it does contribute to the Affekt mentioned earlier. The rhythm is driving and relentless; even without the specific words used that characteristic can conjure up emotions. What musical genres do you associate with this kind of constant, aggressive, forward motion?


THINK ABOUT IT NEXT TIME WHEN YOU WRITE, SUCKA



Rhyme (slant rhymes, half rhymes, assonance)-

Oh boy, rhyming, I don't have a terrible joke about it so let's just proceed.

You know what a rhyme is I hope: you say a word and the end of it sounds like another word...ya heard?

Yeah see, rappers have basically elevated rhyming to its own high art over the last 30 years, so the chances of you doing anything amazing with it is 0%, no argument whatsoever, period.
That said, it is important to understand how you too can use the tool of rhyming, albeit not as a display of wit and technical mastery, but as a compositional device:


I don't want to get too in depth, because the way I think about rhyming would take me far too long to explain, and I just got done writing a 20 page paper about Haydn this morning so FUCK ME, SORRY! But, uh, basically, you know how in music there is consonance, dissonance, and resolution? I like to think about words in the same way. As a phrase goes on there is a sort of rub that builds up based on how the lyrics are structured, but when you get a strong end rhyme it just feels like that phrase has completed (or even, resolved via a cadence if you will). All rappers (if you don't do this then you actually can't rap, sorry) will use this effect to punctuate certain words and phrases, like in disses or punchlines. Take for example this line by Killer Mike off of El-P's Tougher Colder Killer:

Pause [comma]
How I know your momma? Bad motherfucker?
Double entendre?


I choose this short line because it's fairly simple, also I like it a lot and think it's pretty funny. I haven't talked about wordplay yet, but hopefully you realize what that is (psst, it's when you play with words, either their sound or meaning). The word play here is on motherfucker. Simple enough: a motherfucker is usually just some kind of insult you assign to a person, but here he makes use of a DOUBLE ENTENDRE (a word with double meaning) to basically say he's a bad ass who also had sex with your mother, WOW! Notice how the rhyming connects the phrase and gives it a sense of conclusion on the last word, entendre. He sets up key words (comma, momma, entendre) as sort of rhyming pivot points to give the punchline that extra...punch.

NEXT TIME YOU THINK ABOUT RHYMING, THINK ABOUT THIS EFFECT!!


Hey, did it occur to you that you could use this principle to the OPPOSITE EFFECT AS WELL? That is, NOT RHYMING in order to build TENSION? I saw it illustrated pretty well in this one video that talked about how Eminem is #1 best rapper or something, honestly I think MF DOOM beats him in like every way but uhh that's not the point. He used a song by a different group as an example for this principle, Every Breath You Take by The Police:

Every breath you take
And every move you make
Every bond you break, every step you take
I'll be watching you


Woah, so there's like, end rhymes in every line except for the very last one???? How does that make you feel: lost, anxious, TERRIFIED? I'm not gonna talk about the possible implications this has for the song's meaning, but isn't it COOL how NOT RHYMING can give you that feeling? Obviously, this is coupled with the rhythmic structure which kind of sets you up for that feeling of going towards something you never get to.


YOU CAN DO ALL SORTS OF FUN THINGS WITH RHYMES, TRY IT OUT. OBVIOUSLY YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIMIT YOURSELF TO END RHYMES EITHER, PERHAPS YOU HAVE A VERSE WHERE KEY WORDS RHYME WITHIN THE LINES, WHAT IMPLICATION MIGHT THAT HAVE, HMM?



Alliteration-

Dude, doesn't doing dorky demonstrations like, destroy you?
They kinda do! But yeah, that's what alliteration is, having the same starting sounds (I believe there was different terminology for whether that starting syllable was on a vowel or a consonant, but whatever dudeski) in successive (or at least close together) words. This is really just another way to emphasize certain words, and also to help give a passages a certain character, based on the quality of the sound being repeated. I touched on this in another massive analysis post of mine, when I broke down Mr. Mothafuckin' Exquire's verse on El-P's (what can I say, I really like Cancer 4 Cure) Oh Hail No: (notice I used a different system for excerpts)

Stu Beef wrote:9 Visceral, villainous, vindicated by venomous vibes
10 Viscious, concealing my mental illness by willing a smile

Some nice alliteration here, and by nice I mean pretty damn aggressive. It’s not just the stressed starts of repeated consonant sounds that gives these lines more edge, but I feel like staying on that [ih] vowel sound (sorry, I don’t quite know my IPA) almost gives it an extra tense/angry feel (just try sayin it, you’ll see what I mean). It contrasts nicely with the more open [ah] sound at the end of each line.


Hopefully you can see how the different elements we've thus far discussed: rhythm, rhyme, and alliteration add to the sound of the short excerpt. The driving rhythm coupled with the tension caused by the repeated "V" sounds seem to resolve as the final word "smile" ties back in with "vibes".

THAT'S A REALLY NEATO EFFECT THAT CAN GO QUITE WRONG, UNLESS YOUR AIM IS TO BE REALLY CHEESY. WHATEVER, DUDE, JUST WRITE INTERESTING LYRICS!!!

Diction-

Oh boy, word choice and syntax! Now, this one is a little more complicated, and it really depends on the writer. Let me just say that you can masterfully write in the style of an overly emotional teenager, just as well as when you awkwardly flop attempting to imitate Robert Frost or something. To simplify, it's about consistency.

Say you were going to start off with something like:

Tonight our love burns like the lights on the dance floor
DJ forget our names and make us melt away


what if you were to suddenly go

Forsooth, thou art my eternal flame
my heart shall know no life beyond its presence to your figure, so beauteous, that angels would weep in envy of it



Obviously, that's absolutely fuckin ridiculous (and hey, if you were going for a comedic effect why not, but that comedic effect also has no subtly whatsoever so I'd have to call you a hack artist).
so most people don't really go that route. However, often people end up trying to sound "deep" but in actuality their lyrics are completely trite, boring, and laughable.

Honestly, I'll take:

Wake up in the morning feeling like P Diddy
(Hey, what up girl?)
Grab my glasses, I'm out the door, I'm gonna hit this city
(Let's go)
Before I leave, brush my teeth with a bottle of Jack
'Cause when I leave for the night, I ain't coming back


over well...most everything I hear amateurs write. Ok, while whatever you write might be totally honest and expressive of how you feel and everything, umm, art is more than that? If you're going to write with the intention of your work being consumed and CRITIQUED by other people, bring something to the table dude! I mean, yeah, if you know your audience consists of hormonal children, by all means WRITE FOR THEM!! I'm not saying that we can't talk about feelings in songs, I'm just saying WHO THE HELL DOESN'T!?

WHEN WRITING, CONSISTENCY IS KEY. OBVIOUSLY, YOU CAN FLIP EXPECTATIONS TO COOL EFFECT BUT YOU HAVE TO KNOW HOW TO BUILD UP THOSE EXPECTATIONS FIRST. WRITING SOMETHING THAT IS "DEEP" DOESN'T JUST CONSIST OF HAVING SLIGHTLY ADVANCED VOCABULARY; AS I LIKE TO SAY, "Good art is like an onion: it has layers."





OK I'VE BEEN WRITING FOR 2 HOURS AND I'M TIRED NOW, COME BACK LATER

Tone-

Mood-

Similie-

Metaphor-

Irony-

Imagery-

Symbolism-

Allegory-


More later?

-----------------------FAQs----------------------

Q. Wow, do you actually think about all this shit? What a nerd!!!

A. Yes, in fact I do. However, it takes a lot less time to write a verse (for me) than it does to explain it. You should learn to juggle all these ideas and implications at once after some practice, it helps to just THINK THIS WAY as well.

Q. Ok, so I read your post and writing lyrics is still hard, should I go to the hospital?

A. Well, I don't want to say that nothing is wrong with you, because if you're reading this, chances are that something clearly is. I will however say, yeah, shit is hard when you first start out. Actually, some shit is ALWAYS hard, it really depends on you AND your standards. If you constantly improve but never meet your standards, that's probably a GOOD THING (unless you actually just really suck)! Always strive to improve!!!
User avatar
Stu Beef
 
Posts: 172
Joined: 03 Sep 2012 23:36
Location: Sunny So Cal

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby Lying Pink » 17 May 2013 05:02

Oh wow, that's really cool. Hope you get around to finishing it, looks like you've got some fun topics lined up.
Fnord.
Soundcloud | Tumblr | Skype | YouTube | Email
/)__~
</</
User avatar
Lying Pink
 
Posts: 313
Joined: 15 Dec 2012 19:00
Location: United Kingdom
Primary: Reaper
Cutie Mark: Knees

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby JSynth » 17 May 2013 08:19

that,
that is a lot.
But it's pretty helpful and a lot to think about.
https://soundcloud.com/jasper-synth/back-at-me
Jokeblue wrote:You fool. You've doomed the Spam thread to yet another, inevitable :3 spam.

My Tumblr
My YouTube
My SoundCloud

DAW: Logic Pro 9
Plugins: Sylenth, Sausage Fattener, Komplete 9, NI The Mouth, Ozone 5, Bitspeek
User avatar
JSynth
 
Posts: 726
Joined: 12 Dec 2012 10:48
Location: not in the snow anymore
OS: Not Windows
Primary: Logic 9
Cutie Mark: yo face

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby Stu Beef » 17 May 2013 20:47

Cool to see people diggin' it! But, yeah, writing like this is pretty time consuming obviously, so this is gonna take me awhile. Good thing I find this sorta stuff fun!
User avatar
Stu Beef
 
Posts: 172
Joined: 03 Sep 2012 23:36
Location: Sunny So Cal

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby topitmunkeydog » 18 May 2013 21:11

Stu Beef thanks so much for all this helpful information! I'll get around to reading it all tomorrow
Also I'm so sorry that you had to write a whole paper on Haydn.. D:
topitmunkeydog
 
Posts: 621
Joined: 02 Jan 2013 13:43
Location: the people's republic of freak
OS: macaroni
Primary: (trying to learn) ableton
Cutie Mark: yes

Re: Songwriting Help thread

Postby StevenAD » 31 May 2013 21:41

Before I write all this, I just wanna point out that this is how it works for me, and I'm not saying this is 100% the only way to ever write anything forever, amen. And also I'm speaking largely from a rap state of mind since... that's what I do and all. But I think this stuff would still apply to rock songs so idk

When I start a song, I don't ever get really into it until I have a really solid concept and a solid catchy chorus to match. I will spend as long as is necessary on this step. If it doesn't get stuck in my head and make me want to sing it to myself, then it's not good enough. I don't necessarily plan out how long the song is going to be at this point, just getting the foundation laid.

Once that is done it's easy to me to write since there's a clear goal. Even if that goal is just making people want to party. And every single line you put in the song should fit with it. Even if that way seems like it's counter-intuitive. Like how many of Fun.'s songs are rambling messes, it still works towards a goal. If you wanna be taken seriously you can't just start talking about your dog. Though that would be hilarious. And being hilarious isn't bad either. But I digress.

Try to avoid rhymes tired and cliché rhymes like life/strife and girl/world. They are insanely overused and when many people hear them they can't help but roll their eyes (I'm talking about me).

When you write anything and realize it doesn't fit with your current project, don't erase that. Keep that stuff somewhere else because it could come in really handy.

I try to form the lyrics and melody at the same time since the melody should complement the natural flow of the words. If a word isn't emphasized when you'd normally say it, don't emphasize it. Unless I guess you're trying to be all style-y.

Something else someone told me, confidence can oftentimes carry you through a weak line. Just do it with enough confidence and people might not notice haha

Don't be afraid of pauses. That can create some really interesting moments.

Also, if you HAVE to reference something, try to be witty about it. Don't just be like

I like ponies.
We are bronies.
Though this show needs
Way more Tonys
EDIT: actually I think that was kind of witty

OMG REFERENCES LOL DID YOU HEAR THAT GUYS? SHARED EXPERIENCES!

And I guess one more thing, try to put some friggin personality into your writing. Otherwise no one will be able to tell you apart from the millions of other people who discovered they know how to put letters beside each other.

I have faith in you. Go for the gold in the writing olympics thing.
RIP Kiki Havivy. You will be missed...
User avatar
StevenAD
 
Posts: 67
Joined: 03 Jun 2012 09:25
Location: Ohio, USA


Return to Technique



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests