<Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

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<Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby v.lossity » 03 Feb 2013 19:43

I am producing my first orchestral track right now, and it is so much more difficult than I ever thought it would be. While coming up with some harmonies and figuring out voicings I started pulling on my experience as a viola player and I was wondering -for all you orchestra producers out there- Do you play any instruments? Does it affect how you write for that type of instrument or how you work in general?
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby itroitnyah » 03 Feb 2013 20:02

Playing an instrument has an incredibly visible effect on every genre, not just orchestral. It can help when composing pieces because you know how the scales work and are and it gives you some experience with pitches and instrument timbres. I personally played the piano for quite some years when I was younger, about 6 years I think, but then I stopped. Even with the however many years gap between my playing and my producing, I hypothesize that I'm doing better off at composing than others without instrument experience are.

But I find it silly that people would think it would make you better at digitally playing an instrument if you also play the instrument in real life. I don't notice a difference in composition between my melodies and rhythms whether I'm using FL Keys or any various synthesizers.
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby Alycs » 03 Feb 2013 20:41

While I don't produce much in the line of Orchestral, I find that playing an instrument does help quite a lot. Even if you do know theory (somehow) without ever playing an instrument, having played it in real life rather than just seeing it on a computer lets you visualize various ideas easier than just guessing.

On the other hand, digital and acoustic instruments are so different that it would be like saying, "Hey, you play the piano, I bet you're a great oboe player!" While already knowing an instrument does help with learning curves and basic composition, once you've done either long enough, the similarities start fading into the background.
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby Callenby » 03 Feb 2013 21:00

Growing up I played the piano (and violin for one year) but am now a cellist, which is still pretty good for composing because of the cello's range. Piano is so standard for composers to learn that even if you don't want to be a pianist I'd still recommend having at least basic familiarity with it.

I cannot stress enough how helpful it is to be proficient at an instrument if you want to write music. Any instrument is better than nothing, I'd say. The better you are at it the more expressive and virtuosic you are able to write (for that instrument, at the very least). On top of that it gives you a sense of what is actually possible for a human being to perform, which might be easy to forget if all you work with are samples. That's especially important if you are aiming to work with real orchestras some day.
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby Forza SoundFire » 03 Feb 2013 21:06

I too am a viola player! Most the instruments I have ever played to a high(ish) level have been mid/low range instruments, save the violin and flute.
This makes my composition technique very focused on harmony. I absolutely embrace that my melodic writing is weak and needs some loving. ^^

One thing that I took far too long to figure out; is not to make it too complicated. I tried writing individual parts for each instrument! It's a mess!
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby Omnomnomnom » 03 Feb 2013 21:21

Of course! Playing fretted or keyboarded instruments helps the most (especially with theory), and knowing the traits of any instrument helps greatly in writing a good piece for it.

For example, I am a clarinetist. I know how difficult it is to jump between the chalumeau, clarino, and altissimo, and how throat tones affect the timbre of the instrument, so my writing will always compensate for it. This applies to any instrument; the more of them you know, the better, when you're writing for such instruments.
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Furthermore, guitarists and pianists (or players of similar instruments) will always be more musically experienced than fools playing with little midi values on a screen. The musical literacy you get from playing real instruments is priceless when writing. Personally, when I write, it is always helpful to relate my music back to my real instruments- the second nature you receive from them speeds up the creative process amazingly.
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby v.lossity » 03 Feb 2013 21:43

@itroitnyah Well Im not so sure. For example when I opened up my first strings plugin and started composing melodies and stuff, it was very intuitive for me, but when I started with brass which I have next to no experience with, it was much more difficult to figure out what sounded good, what were common uses for brass, how they are used, etc, etc. Plus, having played viola, I know many different timbres that can come out of strings. There are many more than just pizzacato, staccato, legato, sordino, and spicatto! Up-bows sound different from down-bows, the tip of the bow sounds different than the bottom, etc etc etc.

@Forza Soundfire Viola power! I have noticed I spend a lot more time trying to make interesting harmonies for violas and other middle voices, even if they end up blending into indistinctness
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby vladnuke » 03 Feb 2013 22:15

I play guitar and piano. Shit helps when it comes down to writing music. I think about how I would play something. Also helps with velocity mapping.

If I feel like something needs swing, I'll just record the midi rather than plodding it out, and then not quantize it. It sounds a lot better than perfect midi notes.
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby Conduit » 03 Feb 2013 22:24

I've played guitar for 4 years, and cello and piano for a year.

I would say it helps.
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby PonE-Sharp » 04 Feb 2013 19:00

I play piano. only other instrument I'm interested in learning is guitar, and that's just for non-orchestral compositions.
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby CaptainFluffatun » 04 Feb 2013 19:29

I play piano, guitar, bass, and drums. I came from a rock background before I tried orchestral x3
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby SticktheFigure » 04 Feb 2013 21:12

I play piano. I can't write a song without piano in it.
Rather, I could but choose not to.
I also "play" the guitar. (I play chords. No fingerpicking or Bach playing upon it.)
I make sure that when I write it into a song that it is actually possible to strum and sustain what notes are sustained together.
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby Pimps_McGee » 04 Feb 2013 22:04

I don't compose orchestral but I have played Tuba and Euphonium combined for a total of seven years now (I also have a fair amount of knowledge about guitar, trumpet, and piano, but those three are far from the former). I do believe playing an instrument will definitely change how you compose a song.

For example, there is nothing I hate more than being a tuba player and having to play one, single, tied whole-note repeatedly for about a hundred measures. From such traumatic experiences I tend to write the bass line of a song to be more exciting then most. I feel almost a brotherhood with bass and tenor voices large in part caused by playing them so often.
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby FIMprov » 07 Feb 2013 14:02

v.lossity wrote:@itroitnyah Well Im not so sure. For example when I opened up my first strings plugin and started composing melodies and stuff, it was very intuitive for me, but when I started with brass which I have next to no experience with, it was much more difficult to figure out what sounded good, what were common uses for brass, how they are used, etc, etc. Plus, having played viola, I know many different timbres that can come out of strings. There are many more than just pizzacato, staccato, legato, sordino, and spicatto! Up-bows sound different from down-bows, the tip of the bow sounds different than the bottom, etc etc etc.

@Forza Soundfire Viola power! I have noticed I spend a lot more time trying to make interesting harmonies for violas and other middle voices, even if they end up blending into indistinctness


I'm going to talk about both of these comments and then some. Fair warning.

First up, you know next to nothing about brass, I gather. One way to get an idea for what sounds good on brass (and I have played trombone mixed with tuba and euphonium for 8 years, so I would know) is to listen to some classical music. You may want to start off listening to solos performed by each instrument to get an idea of what each is capable of. From there you can try brass ensembles (the quintet or sextet seems to be the most popular, being comprised of tuba, trombone, euphonium, horn, and trumpet--a nice blend) to hear how parts tend to interact. Then from there full-blown classical masterpieces. Listen to how the brass works in the context of an entire orchestra. I would consider the ensembles to be an optional step, but you really should get an idea of 1) what each instrument is capable of and 2) how they fit into an orchestra sound.

And concerning your second point: I have noticed in every musician I have ever seen that people tend to favor the first instrument/instrument family that they learned when composing (and conducting, for that matter, when live performers are involved). This can be a bad thing, as you yourself have pointed out. Though when done properly, this can lead to a unique sound and is part of what sets you apart from other producers and composers.

And one last point I'd like to make: I have played piano for over 10 years now, and it definitely has helped me immensely in everything musical that I've ever done. Playing trombone in the school band for 8 years has also taught me a great many things about how a group should sound, including orchestras.

On that note, let me segue a bit here: if you are going to produce orchestral music, people like me will expect you to use the full orchestra sound. I do apologize in advance for sounding a bit elitist here, but this is the honest truth. Nothing annoys me more than people producing orchestral music who obviously have no idea how to write for an orchestra. I've heard too many songs that outright ignore an entire instrument group. As much as I love the song "The Wicked End" by Avenged Sevenfold, the orchestral interlude bugs the living crap out of me because there's zero woodwinds. And Tsyolin's "Wooden Overture" almost completely ignores the brass section, which is especially troubling to a brass player such as myself. So while nobody expects to you come out guns blazing with epic symphonies, people like me really love orchestral producers who manage to pull of that difficult "contemporary orchestral/classical" or "cinematic" sound rather than the "I just pirated EWQL Symphonic Orchestra" sound.
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby Nine Volt » 07 Feb 2013 14:34

I'm not orchestral either, but I play guitar and piano on a basic level.
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby v.lossity » 07 Feb 2013 16:50

@FIMprov this is some good food for thought, Ill definitely check some pieces out with brass (and woodwind). The only experience I have with brass and woodwinds was with a small pit orchestra I played in in highschool, and to be honest, when you are a violist that is having to jump into fifth and sixth position and back, you arent really paying much attention to the horns clear on the other side of the pit xD So yeah, it would be good to listen and get oriented in the full orchestra.
And I know what you mean re: using a full orchestra. I heard a great song by JWoodony that was just strings and piano but I thought "this sounds odd", and on inspection of the project files, I discovered every single strings track was some kind of cello! So yeah I get the frustration. Ill get a woodwinds library as soon as I can afford it :S Thanks for the ideas :)
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby Nine Volt » 07 Feb 2013 16:53

There's a quote button you know.
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby v.lossity » 07 Feb 2013 16:57

yes, and while it takes less work, it ends up taking up more space.
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby Forza SoundFire » 07 Feb 2013 17:00

I think playing orchestral percussion gave me an excellent opportunity to sit there for hours and play only a few notes! Plenty of time to sit and listen...

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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby Nine Volt » 07 Feb 2013 17:01

v.lossity wrote:yes, and while it takes less work, it ends up taking up more space.

And people also have no clue what you're talking about. It's easier for everyone to just use the quote function.
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby Spactrum » 07 Feb 2013 17:10

I mostly do House now and all the chords are very easy to make when you can play the piano

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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby v.lossity » 07 Feb 2013 17:11

Nine Volt wrote:
v.lossity wrote:yes, and while it takes less work, it ends up taking up more space.

And people also have no clue what you're talking about. It's easier for everyone to just use the quote function.


I suppose I can start using it. It just really irks me when someone quotes so much it takes up a whole page on a thread which is why I never used it before.
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby Nine Volt » 07 Feb 2013 17:20

v.lossity wrote:
Nine Volt wrote:
v.lossity wrote:yes, and while it takes less work, it ends up taking up more space.

And people also have no clue what you're talking about. It's easier for everyone to just use the quote function.


I suppose I can start using it. It just really irks me when someone quotes so much it takes up a whole page on a thread which is why I never used it before.

Well, it's a good thing we have a 3 quote embed limit :3
Plus the 25 posts per page thing
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby v.lossity » 07 Feb 2013 18:03

Well, it's a good thing we have a 3 quote embed limit :3


Well....have you seen this? viewtopic.php?p=87489#p87489

This is kinda what I meant, and its not like a huge deal or anything, its just a bit irritating.

edit: just realizing how offtopic Im getting in my own thread >.<
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Re: <Orchestral> Producers - do you play any instruments?

Postby FIMprov » 07 Feb 2013 20:19

Oh, and v.lossity, I just thought of another thing. Since I imagine you don't care much for classical music, you could also try film soundtracks to get that epic cinematic sound without being bored out of your gourd by a twenty-minute Boroque brass ensemble. A more cinematic style is what many orchestral producers go for anyway.
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