Massive help

[itroitnyah]

Alright, so whenever I'm working on a drop wub or whatnot, I can't create the wub without it sounding like crap. One wub style never seems to connect with the next, so it ends up sounding really horribly sequenced, and just disgusting over all. I know how to make the sounds fit together, but it's just sequencing the drops correctly so that if I place down a talker, and then a regular wub right next to it, it'll actually work together smoothly instead of having that rough transition.

So I just want tips on how to sequence drops so that they fit together smoothly... like:

[Friv]

All I can say is sidechain?
Also, any bassline can be a challenge to piece together; don't just give up if it sounds like shit at first.

[itroitnyah]

All I can say is sidechain?

Alright, then allow me to rephrase. How do I sidechain properly? Although the sequencing a drop and stuff question still applies here

[Friv]

All I can say is sidechain?

Alright, then allow me to rephrase. How do I sidechain properly? Although the sequencing a drop and stuff question still applies here

That depends on what DAW you use.

[XXDarkShadow79XX]

http://flskins.com/tutorials/2-ways-sidechain-fl-studio

Boom. There you go. Remember that sidechaining isn't just for effect. You can use it more subtly to mix.

[Lavender_Harmony]

Sidechain isnt the answer here guys, where the hell did you get that notion from?

Watch this space, I'll reply here in a bit.

[XXDarkShadow79XX]

Oops. I just derped. Hard.

Anyways, Itroinyah, do you mind expanding a bit more, like showing us an exact point in a song of yours that sounded disjointed?

[Lavender_Harmony]

Okay, honestly that's a terrible example to take influence on. Whoever produced that should really be ashamed, the mix is terrible.

One common mistake people make is that their drops contain only their bass wobbles and the drums. While this can be done, you need to be very careful about what you do with the remaining frequencies. Often the best drops make use of width and ambience. If you listen to Scary Monsters, for example, the overall sound of the drop is bass and drums, but the two are disjointed. The way it's mixed makes it sound like the drums are in a very echo-ey room, with a long, long tail on the snare, with your ear pressed up against the speaker that's playing the bass. The more common drop that gets overlooked is one with pads, arpeggios and other melodic elements. Some have a held string line throughout, one note, that you don't necessarily notice, but you sense.

When you construct your drop, think of it as a typical bassline. You can take most any drop and play it on a bass or electric guitar, because even though it may sound atonal, even something as harsh and seemingly Atonal as First of the Year or Knife Partys Unison bassline, it still has notes and a melody. The wobbling and modulating could be attributed to vibrato and other dynamic effects.

Coherency is also often found within the mix, which is why I've stopped using presets entirely. When you load up a Massive preset with some kind of dubstep bass, the low end is present, and it has been mixed in-plugin to emphasise that. While it may sound impressive at first, it is literally impossible to drop those in a mix effectively without having to delve into the patch and adjust things, and if you don't know how to do sound design, you're in a rut.

If you're going for a more complextro style, remember, variation can be found in repetition. Get one synth to play one part played by another synth two bars earlier, then have that other sound play the notes of another bassline. You don't want to create a bass synth for each and every sound.

And remember, oscillate your subs, never leave them stoic throughout. Even if it's a simple amp envelope that lightly follows the movement of the bassline, movement is movement and that's what's important when creating something coherent. Even subtle panning can give life to your drops and add width that you'd otherwise have to obtain through stereo wideners which ruin a mix completely.

[itroitnyah]

A lot of really impressive stuff.

Thanks man, I'll do my best to follow what you said ^.^

[XXDarkShadow79XX]

One common mistake people make is that their drops contain only their bass wobbles and the drums. While this can be done, you need to be very careful about what you do with the remaining frequencies. Often the best drops make use of width and ambience. If you listen to Scary Monsters, for example, the overall sound of the drop is bass and drums, but the two are disjointed. The way it's mixed makes it sound like the drums are in a very echo-ey room, with a long, long tail on the snare, with your ear pressed up against the speaker that's playing the bass. The more common drop that gets overlooked is one with pads, arpeggios and other melodic elements. Some have a held string line throughout, one note, that you don't necessarily notice, but you sense.

I've always felt strongly about this "musical complexity" issue. If a dubstep track only has drums and bass, so be it! As long as that's what the producer wants and it sounds good, then I don't see an issue. In fact, dubstep has the tendency to pride itself on it's emptyness sometimes. There's beauty (And brutality) to be found in simplicity. For example, let's take your example, Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites. The brutality comes from the extreme difference between the intro and the drop, so the bass during the drop is pushed against you to emphasize it more. And if there were melodic elements in the drop, it could ruin the contrast of the verses and the drop, which is what makes that song great. It truly is one of the songs that defines dubstep. An example of a song which uses complexity and melodic elements to its advantage, would be this song here:



This song blends the orchestral elements with the dubstep, making the entire thing sound just... epic. Not a whole lot to say there, except for that the drop wouldn't be the same without the melodic elements. Complexity and melodic elements in dubstep should be used only when necessary.

Coherency is also often found within the mix, which is why I've stopped using presets entirely. When you load up a Massive preset with some kind of dubstep bass, the low end is present, and it has been mixed in-plugin to emphasise that. While it may sound impressive at first, it is literally impossible to drop those in a mix effectively without having to delve into the patch and adjust things, and if you don't know how to do sound design, you're in a rut.

Wait, what about EQ? While it is true that I don't usually keep presets in their purest form, I usually cut out all of the stuff I don't need with E-

Wait a second... I don't think I've ever used a Massive preset in any of my songs... ever. Wow. Still, if I do, I would use a lot of EQing.

If you're going for a more complextro style, remember, variation can be found in repetition.

YES, now I agree with this. Not only can variation be found in repetition, but brutality can be found too. Do what dubstep is hated for. Bombard the listener with the same horrible sounds over andover and over. Just listen to Borgore. He has these crazy sounds, but he just essentially does the same thing again and again.

And it's awesome.

And remember, oscillate your subs, never leave them stoic throughout. Even if it's a simple amp envelope that lightly follows the movement of the bassline, movement is movement and that's what's important when creating something coherent. Even subtle panning can give life to your drops and add width that you'd otherwise have to obtain through stereo wideners which ruin a mix completely.

Yeah my sub basses aren't modulated at all lol. I just keep them immobile. I fail. :P

But I was once told to always keep your subs mono. I think panning too much can make the sub muddy.

So yeah. To sum up my reply, I've always been okay with keeping things basic. It all depends on what you want to make of a song. If you want it to be complex: no one is stopping you. If you want to only use 3 instruments throughout: go ahead. This is all just my opinion.

[Lavender_Harmony]

1. I was addressing the fact people put a bunch of stock wubs over drums and have do without any sense of flow, as in constructing it as a musical element to the track.

2. "Coherency is also often found within the mix." - Encompasses all elements of mixing. What I said in this sentence is basically: Learn to mix, or give up now.

3. We're not talking about 'hardness', we're talking about coherency.

4. The point is subs should be mono. But if you modulate your bass synth with panning, moving the sub with it can be very effective and gives the soundstage more interest and scope.

[XXDarkShadow79XX]

Great, I derped again and went on a long rant about the wrong thing. I think I get what you're saying now. Coherency is the key to a quality dubstep song, and quality music on general. Learn how to musically combine instruments, and learn how to mix. Got it. What I thought you were saying in the first paragraph was that dubstep should be complex and have melodic elements in it. It seemed strange that someone would make a statement like that, so I had to reply. What I think I got out of that passage was that other instruments in the drop can help to make it better in terms of musical construction and "stability" for lack of a better term.

O-or I may have this all wrong. I really can't say I have any idea as to whether I understand or not. But if I do, then that's what I took from your post.