Does this happen to anyone else?

[EnnervateIndustries]

Okay, I've noticed this for a while now, and it's really kind of confusing.

Read this in a musing tone instead of a complaining one:
Does anyone feel like they just don't get better after a certain point? I'm not whining about how I can't do anything right, I just hit a wall that I don't see in other people.

This is sort of how it goes: I try something new, then my skill goes up really fast and then stops, usually somewhere between "meh" and "pretty good," with some exceptions. After that, I might get a little better occasionally through muscle memory and some random discoveries, but I don't improve at anything significantly. I've tried things such as where I played guitar every day for an hour or so for a couple of weeks, and I play with the same skill as before. I also don't seem to get worse at things. For examples, I can pick up my clarinet after literally months of not playing and as soon as my embouchure gets back into shape, I'm as good as ever. This seems to happen with everything I do, even outside of music.

To me, it just seems like I can catch on to things fast, but then get stuck.


Does this happen to anyone else, or do I have an uncommon learning style or something?

I actually feel like an RPG character, like I get set skill levels.

[MixolydianPony]

I have the same thing, but some skills aren't a gradual improvement, they come in waves. You'll stay at the same level for a while, and then all of a sudden jump up a bit. It's not a linear sort of thing. John Petrucci of Dream Theater talked about this once.

[EnnervateIndustries]

some skills aren't a gradual improvement, they come in waves.

I see what you mean, but what I'm talking about happens with everything I do. It's not a huge problem or anything, it's just kind of weird.

[Sai]

Read this in a musing tone

Totally just read that as "music tone". [sarcasm]I feel oh so very clever right now.[/sarcasm]

Anyways, you're not alone in this; I feel like that sometimes, too. More so in some areas than others. I can and have spent months learning a single piece of piano music and still not be able to get through it without making mistakes. It's most noticable to me with my piano playing in particular, because I've been doing it for a long time now and I don't feel I am where I should be with it.
I just need to practice more, I'm sure. Then practice more than that. However, in this specific case, I don't actually know if I'm learning "wrong", given that I have no outside guidance. Still, the main method of improvement in general is usually something along the lines of "practice what you're doing more than you already are".

Also, this topic's probably gonna get Ira Glass'd sooner or later.

[EnnervateIndustries]

Also, this topic's probably gonna get Ira Glass'd sooner or later.

Indeed.

*takes a deep breath*

I'm not giving up, drop the motivational stuff!

[prettiestPony]

Man, am I gonna have to drag out the "expert studies" research again?

Plateauing like you described is human nature, more or less, and I think it mostly happens because we develop techniques and routines to a certain point, but never grow beyond them. I can't say I'm really an authority on the subject, and I'm certainly no role model, but as far as I understand, the key to surpassing a plateau is to consciously, deliberately seek to identify your limitations and weak points, then devise and test strategies for overcoming them.

You might find it helpful to listen to your finished music some time and try to identify specifically in what areas it feels deficient--perhaps write them down on paper (or on a computer, etc.) and then, having identified problematic areas, for each one think,"How can I improve this? Do I need to study more about [compression/mixing/instrumentation/harmony/etc.]? Are there video tutorials on this specific subject that might help? Can I post a topic about it on MLR?" If the problem is something that requires more "practice" or "raw skill development" rather than new knowledge per se, ask, "Can I invent exercises for myself that will focus specifically on this weak point? Do I need to rethink my approach when I'm [designing synth patches/mastering/improvising/etc.]?"

After trying out a new approach or strategy for a while, reevaluate. "Did that take me closer or farther away from my goal? Do I need to be patient before I can expect to see results? Or should I just scrap that and try something else altogether?"

More generally, maybe a process like this:
1. What needs to change? Identify problems very specifically. "It sucks" is not helpful. "It sucks because it has no energy" is better. "It has no energy because the rhythm section feels like it's dead or made of cheap plastic" is better still.
2. How can I change it? Figure out ways to address the problem. I'd say there are probably three main options here, which may be useful separately or in combination with one another:

• Seek out help from others. Ask on forums, read what others have written, etc.
• Observe what others have done. Find examples of others' work that solves or side-steps the problem you identified in step 1, then try to analyze specifically what it is that makes them work.
• Devise your own methods. If you can't find any guidance from others or others' work, you may have to go it on your own. Maybe you'll need to try things somewhat randomly, hoping you'll stumble onto something successful. Maybe you already know roughly how to approach it, but you need to invent a more concrete exercise to be able to practice it. Maybe you need to do some more book-learning on the basics of whatever you're working on, and hope that something clicks, giving you the right idea of how to proceed.

3. Is it working? If you're not fixing the problem, maybe you need to take a step further back and try to identify why your strategies or methods aren't helping you improve. Maybe you just need to give it more time. Maybe you're doing something wrong. Maybe it's an entirely bad idea to begin with.

TL;DR: Oh, just read it, you lazy bastards. Or take this as a summary: to improve, identify your limitations and then figure out how to overcome them. (Okay, that's basically a fortune cookie truism, but if you read the rest of my post you'll see some more detailed explanation.)

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to go ignore my own advice with a new project. :3

[EnnervateIndustries]

*deer in headlights*

Just kidding. That helped a lot, thanks.

It's not really music composition and production I've hit a wall in, I can analyze and figure out what I need to do on a stupidly precise level.

It's more guitar, since I've played guitar on and off for a couple of years and (probably due to the fact that I rarely practice) I'm stuck, like I said. I'm picking it back up recently because of ponies giving me a reason to branch out in music besides what I listen to. If fact, my left hand is making it kind of difficult to type at the moment, I've just finished practicing guitar for two and a half hours and my pansy typist's fingertips are complaining.
I'm thinking the problem with guitar is that I'm trying to teach it to myself, which is quite a lot harder than teaching myself a DAW.

It probably would help if I didn't start out with woodwinds, guitar and clarinet have a very small (mechanical) overlap.

[Raddons]

John Petrucci of Dream Theater talked about this once.

That's the same reason I never get down about it, cause I know as long as I keep on, I'll get better. I love me some Petrucci

Also taking a little break with the guitar (like a week). I've always found that if I'm not getting any better after a long period of time (like, 8+ months), I'll take a week break or so and when I pick up the guitar again I'm even better than ever.

[Habanc]

Man, am I gonna have to drag out the "expert studies" research again?

Oooh, yes! That was on another thread with all these awesome links that I'm pretty sure I have saved as favorites. You should really just make a thread on that and send the link the Navybrony so he can put it in his "Getting Started" guide.

EDIT: Found one, by K. Anders Ericsson and Neil Charness, in case anyone would like a look. It's 20 pages, just fyi.

Anyways, onto the topic at hand.

I know how you feel man. Additionally, this doesn't just happen for me in just production. It's also happened with me for sports and writing.

For instance, I've been playing hockey for 12 years now, and for the majority of those I was a B-Level goalie. And then, one year, things just clicked and fell into place. Then the next year, more things started to "click". Now, I'm going into my senior year of high school, playing for our varsity team. Why did they "click"? Well, it was because during those years I had a great coach who knew what to tell me and where I had to work on, instead of my usual "Go to practice and try to block shots". Relating to what PrettiestPony said, you have to find out where you're failing and work at it. Fortunately for me, I just had someone find those weak-points for me.

The point is, is that these plateaus happen, it's just a normal learning cycle. Sometimes you just have to take a step back and do some introspection before you can jump back in and get better.

[prettiestPony]

Man, am I gonna have to drag out the "expert studies" research again?

Oooh, yes! That was on another thread with all these awesome links that I'm pretty sure I have saved as favorites. You should really just make a thread on that and send the link the Navybrony so he can put it in his "Getting Started" guide.

Awww, you remembered. <3

Maybe I will make a thread dedicated to it; I might need to do a little more research and reflection first, though.

It's not really music composition and production I've hit a wall in, I can analyze and figure out what I need to do on a stupidly precise level.

It's more guitar, since I've played guitar on and off for a couple of years and (probably due to the fact that I rarely practice) I'm stuck, like I said.

Oh, I see, I thought the guitar was being used as an example, and your main focus was music production/composition.

Still, I think what I've said should apply in pretty much the same way. Perhaps the more important thing for self-teaching an instrument is to make sure to challenge yourself. Learn pieces that are just a little too difficult for you, then get to the point where they aren't as difficult. Also try developing some other skills; e.g., can you comp chords smoothly when you see a new lead sheet (or chord list, whatever) for the first time? Can you improvise a solo over those chords in real time? Are you familiar with playing chord extensions a la 9ths, 11ths, 13ths? Maybe you should work on transposing melodies and chord progressions in your head? (Those are just supposed to be examples, you don't necessarily need to answer those specific questions right here.)

It is definitely more difficult when you don't have a teacher, though. Ordinarily, they'll be the ones assigning you more difficult tasks, and they'll be there to point out when you're doing something wrong, and how to do it better.

Another difference, I suppose, is that with production/composition, you get an opportunity to evaluate your efforts after you've produced/composed. When you're playing an instrument, you have to evaluate yourself while you're playing, which means you're already distracted; so that's another reason it helps to have an outside person there to watch over you. (Making recordings of your practice sessions might not be a bad idea.)

[EnnervateIndustries]

That's a great idea, but the stupid thing is that I don't own a camera of any kind. Call me crazy, but I seriously don't, I really have to get one sometime. I would try to record to my computer via my amp, but my amp is literally the worst amp, ever, and the last time I plugged it in to my computer and recorded it it clipped over itself so badly it didn't sound like a guitar after a single note. This is with overdrive off, mind you.

Unlike with clarinet music, I don't really have a feel for difficulty of a piece, and I'm not sure why. I have a ton of tabs (Oh my gosh tabs! Shun the heretic!) and music and stuff, but I really have no idea where to go to progress.


I may try to wrangle one of my friends (another brony IRL) into trying to learn guitar with me, but he has absolutely no background with the instrument, so it probably won't help.

[Navron]

The plateau effect is in everything, from the creative arts, to physical exercise.

If you do the same exercises, eventually you're going to reach a point where you can't progress further, and in some cases, begin a slow decline if you continue to do those exercises. Just simply human nature/physique.

You can get over the plateau by altering the exercise, and give the current ones a break. In music, this could be experimenting with a new genre, learning a plugin you haven't given much thought, etc.

If you want to avoid plateauing in the future, you have to keep your mind guessing.

I really enjoy CrossFit for my workout routine, because you rarely plateau on it. The exercises are structured in a way so your body doesn't get used to any particular exercise.

Music can be very similar, and if you want to avoid plateauing, you have to keep feeding your mind new ways of doing things. The bonus of doing this, is you plateau less often, and gain an enormous amount of knowledge and proficiency at things you wouldn't have bothered to try before.

[Ed Viper]

I thought I was gonna be all cool and intelligent and talk about plateauing, but no, all these other guys have to come in and steal my thunder :[

But, seriously, music is a skill, and like every skill, there's plateauing involved. It can be very frustrating, but don't beat yourself up about it. The only way to really get through it is by performing that activity a lot. You'll see that you still get better, but at a much slower rate during this time. Eventually, you'll happen upon some discovery that pushes your musical prowess much farther, and will finally be off that plateau.

Until you get to the next one.

Seriously, it never ends, there will always be another place you get to where it seems as if you won't get any better. All the more reason not to be too hard on yourself about it. Just keep pushing through, and it'll work out in the end.