Official Discussion Thread (Ghost Edit)

[Ricky Denzel]

I had no clue he had a bandcamp untill now.

[Acsii]

I had no clue he had a bandcamp untill now.

haha nice one :P

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I could never do albums tbh. I work too sporadically :T

[Jokeblue]

I could never do albums tbh. I work too sporadically :T

You see, I want to do an album or EP, but I don't work enough to really warrant waiting so long to put one out, and usually when I do make something I just want to get it out as soon as I can.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I'm kinda similar, I try a bunch of different things till something works and then work on whatever works forever. I also make a bunch of loops and drum sounds which eats up a lot of time

[Fl Brony]

I want to make an album but I really don't think my music is worth paying for

[Jokeblue]

I want to make an album but I really don't think my music is worth paying for

this so much this. I just poured tonnes of effort into writing recording producing and even fully notating two new songs called Be Victorious and The Support. And despite having worked on them so hard and done as much of a top-notch effort as I had, I don't know if I can put enough value on them to ask for money for it even though it's totally justifiable to do so. I probably will end up doing so though, for maybe just like a dollar per track or something cheap. Cos hell, if you really enjoy the track enough to want to download it can you really not spare atleast something to support the artist's efforts? $1 is barely pocket change and you'd likely throw more at a busker who you'd only maybe listen to for a few seconds to minutes and then never check out again. And you're going to download the track to listen to presumable listen to more tahn once because hey! you liked it enough to download in the first place.

But seriously, music's been devaluated so much. Just the fact that many, like I have, would consider not charging a bare minimum of one measly dollar for hours upon hours upon days upon weeks or upon months of hard work and effort is a statement of this in itself. Even my band without my opinion on the matter has set the bandcamp price of our ep to free. A 6 track Ep for free. I mean yeah you can still pay for it if you want, but who will? I can see the marketing strategy in giving out free albums at certain times or for potential follower generation, but when a lot of people and bands start just giving out their music for free all the time you''re really just devaluating all of your hard work and time, as well as obviously your music - to an extent music in general. More musicians should stand up and say "You know what? No. My music is actually worth something."

I know that a lot of people can and will say that of course they're not doing music for money or fans or something but just because. Sure I know what it's like. Its great to have music in my life and it's great to be able to write record and release despite doing it so infrequently. But come on, let's not kid ourselves. Despite what we say we still want to in the least be heard or recognized for the work we've done in someway. Despite the fact that we/I may write something for fun or as an emotional release or something, it's still, really, really nice to be recognized for what you've done. And when you've really put the work in, and I say really worked hard at something, how do you not have some right in the slightest to put value or worth on the things that you've created?

I guess the easiest thing to do to appease both the feelings "No my music isn't worth it, I don't know if I can ask others for money for it" and "Hell yeah my song is worth something" would be to put songs out with a "Yeah you can pay for this if you want" option... I know a lot of people do this but would anyone who has done it be able to comment on how well that is actually received?

[Fl Brony]

Holy shit, jokeblue with the deep thought and inspirational message

[Jokeblue]

Holy shit, jokeblue with the deep thought and inspirational message

It hit at the worst possible time - when I was about to go to bed. At 2am.

It is now 4am. Help me.

[Fl Brony]

Iz srry cnt hlp drughdryhdtrhdrthdtrtrdhrt

[Stuntddude]

I probably will end up doing so though, for maybe just like a dollar per track or something cheap.

$1 per track is actually quite a lot to ask. A dollar for a single is to be expected, but a ten-track album typically won't go for more than $7.

But seriously, music's been devaluated so much.

Welcome to capitalism. More people are making music than ever before, which means fewer people can profit from it. Aren't unregulated market dynamics just great?

On the other hand, look on the bright side - while music has become cheaper than it used to be, each individual person is buying a lot more on average, a smaller percentage is being taken by labels now than before, and digital downloads mean that physical distribution no longer takes up a large chunk of that price, while even physical copies benefit from ever-plummeting CD production costs. So, all things considered, musicians are actually still making a comparable amount of money to what they did before even though prices have dropped and sales are being spread thin among a larger pool of producers.

Even my band without my opinion on the matter has set the bandcamp price of our ep to free. A 6 track Ep for free. I mean yeah you can still pay for it if you want, but who will?

Surprisingly more people than you'd expect. When I put my album up on bandcamp for free, roughly 1/3 of the people who downloaded it chose to pay money for it anyway, at an average of of ~3.70 USD per person. And if bandcamp's statistics are to be believed, customers on bandcamp pay an average of 50% more than the minimum price for non-free albums anyway.

But come on, let's not kid ourselves. Despite what we say we still want to in the least be heard or recognized for the work we've done in someway. Despite the fact that we/I may write something for fun or as an emotional release or something, it's still, really, really nice to be recognized for what you've done.

But the issue here is that you're equating $$$ with appreciation, which is not really a fair assumption. Many musicians genuinely are happy just to know people are listening to their music, and are willing to give it out for free as a gift to that end. Some people even refuse to take donations toward their music. They're not "kidding themselves" as you seem to believe, they just don't think of music as a career or as an avenue for profit.



Should you put your music up for a price? Absolutely, if you want to! Price it at however much you think it's worth, whether that's 10 cents or 100 dollars. You control your own business model and the great thing about self-publishing is that those decisions are nobody's to make but your own. But don't try to make others do the same if they don't want to. And certainly don't blame the people who are putting theirs up for free if your own isn't commercially successful.

[Captain Ironhelm]

*ramble engaged*

Should you put your music up for a price? Absolutely, if you want to! Price it at however much you think it's worth, whether that's 10 cents or 100 dollars. You control your own business model and the great thing about self-publishing is that those decisions are nobody's to make but your own. But don't try to make others do the same if they don't want to. And certainly don't blame the people who are putting theirs up for free if your own isn't commercially successful.

I'd recommend pricing it to however much the customer thinks it's worth. Simple A/B testing is a great way to find out what your customer base is willing to pay. This would be done with something simple like charging $12 on an album release and $5 on the next, testing to see how well a discount sale goes, etc. (If traffic volume is high enough, you can even profit off of free releases through ad revenue with places like youtube, adsense, adfly, etc.!)

But seriously, music's been devaluated so much.

It's important not to value yourself according to how others value themselves. I know a web designer that charges $100 for a site, and another designer that charges $5000. Each do quite well, but they both figured out what worked best for themselves.

A million schmo's give their music away for free thinking that's all the marketing it'll take to make them "famous". Ok, great for them whatever they can keep their day jobs.
That doesn't mean you can't cut your own path through the clutter, build and connect with your audience and build your own value. A friend of mine in 3 years was able to build his audience to the point where his latest album made over 20k USD in sales.
You can't trust solely on talent taking you to success in this day and age. Maybe you could just send a tape to a record company 50 years ago or some other over-used strategy that worked once and that's all it'd take, but it's a different world now. You have to think of it like a business person, a freelancer, an entrepreneur. Somebody wants to make money off of something, well then act like it and build the business.

*vanishes like Batman*

[Stuntddude]

I'd recommend pricing it to however much the customer thinks it's worth. Simple A/B testing is a great way to find out what your customer base is willing to pay.

If your goal is to make money most efficiently, then I'd say this is great advice. I'm speaking more from the PoV of assigning value to your own music by assigning a price tag to it, since it seemed to me that was the rationale being given originally. I think what I'm saying lines up with your next point about not valuing yourself according to how others value you.

[Captain Ironhelm]

Understood, and I agree. Seems I misunderstood the point by a bit again.

[Jokeblue]

(First off, just like to say thanks to you guys for replying haha)[quote="Stuntddude"][quote="Jokeblue"]I probably will end up doing so though, for maybe just like a dollar per track or something cheap.[/quote]
$1 per track is actually quite a lot to ask. A dollar for a single is to be expected, but a ten-track album typically won't go for more than $7.[/quote] sorry yeah I did kind of mean it as single releases. Also just looked up the Ozzy dollar to American, and $1 oz is actually like $0.8 something American. So when you say that a dollars still a lot t ask, I dot know maybe I'm just seeing it from my Australian context where you really can't get much for a dollar. Even the basic charge for songs on iTunes is $1.69, and the lecturers at uni think that's more than fair price. So idunno, maybe it's just context for each of us here.

[quote="Stuntddude"][quote="Jokeblue"]But seriously, music's been devaluated so much.[/quote]
Welcome to capitalism. More people are making music than ever before, which means fewer people can profit from it. Aren't unregulated market dynamics just great?

On the other hand, look on the bright side - while music has become cheaper than it used to be, each individual person is buying a lot more on average, a smaller percentage is being taken by labels now than before, and digital downloads mean that physical distribution no longer takes up a large chunk of that price, while even physical copies benefit from ever-plummeting CD production costs. So, all things considered, musicians are actually still making a comparable amount of money to what they did before even though prices have dropped and sales are being spread thin among a larger pool of producers.[/quote]
Yeah, true, and that's a fairly good point.

[quote="Stuntddude"][quote="Jokeblue"]Even my band without my opinion on the matter has set the bandcamp price of our ep to free. A 6 track Ep for free. I mean yeah you can still pay for it if you want, but who will?[/quote]
Surprisingly more people than you'd expect. When I put my album up on bandcamp for free, roughly 1/3 of the people who downloaded it chose to pay money for it anyway, at an average of of ~3.70 USD per person. And if bandcamp's statistics are to be believed, customers on bandcamp [url=https://bandcamp.com/help/selling#pricing_performance]pay an average of 50% more than the minimum price for non-free albums anyway.[/url][/quote]
Really? I didn't know this and I'm glad you pointed it out. That almost flips my main point over and instead says its the audience who should place the value on the art and not the artist, and that's kind of a better way to look at it, actually. Just thinking now, it's easy to have the mind set of "music shouldn't cost so much and music should be free" and know that at some point when I was younger I did think like that once. But once I started to actually make music and see how much time and effort goes into the creation of a piece of music, it's fair to empathize with an artist on the worth of a song. And the modern independent musician (round australia, atleast) don't seem to ever ask much more than $10 for a cd with $5 being a common price, I say hey, fairs fair, overall they're not really asking for a lot. Of course that's for a physical setting though. Buying albums and eps from bands in the local scene is great and it's good to support your local musicians like that. But when it comes to digital pay what you want formats of course the worth of your music is dependent on the mind sets of the audience, like your point seemed to gear towards. I just didn't know that it can be as successful as band camp and you say it is. I dunno. Maybe just more people think differently than I thought.

[quote="Stuntddude"][quote="Jokeblue"]But come on, let's not kid ourselves. Despite what we say we still want to in the least be [i]heard[/i] or recognized for the work we've done in someway. Despite the fact that we/I may write something for fun or as an emotional release or [i]something[/i], it's still, really, really nice to be recognized for what you've done.[/quote]
But the issue here is that you're equating $$$ with appreciation, which is not really a fair assumption. Many musicians [u]genuinely are happy just to know people are listening to their music[/u], and are willing to give it out for free as a gift to that end. [url=http://areographe.bandcamp.com/]Some people[/url] even refuse to take donations toward their music. They're not "kidding themselves" as you seem to believe, they just don't think of music as a career or as an avenue for profit.[/quote]
Sorry, reread my post an I can see how it really easily implied that I meant bucks = appreciation. This kinda wasn't what I was trying to say in this point. What I was trying to say was literally what I typed there - that people who make music want to be heard, and want to know that some people are listening to you and enjoying your work. Due to the overall point of my initial post, which was my thoughts on the statement made by FL Brony "I don't think my musics worth paying for" which lead me to "if we really put the work into this, shouldn't we have some say as to what it's worth?" Which then again really easily and obviously led towards monetary values, and probably really implied a point of "everyone ACTUALLY just wants money for their music" which kinda wasn't the case for tha segment. Yes, again, my overall post were kind of observations, opinions and questions on the depreciation of the value of music but also a question as to whether the artist should change their opinions on how much they value what they've done. I know a lot of people legitimately enjoy just making music and having people listen to it and I agree that having some one say that they actually enjoy what you've made is the greatest feeling in the world. But what I was gearing towards was the attitude of those who want to sell their music but change their minds because they think "no my musics probably not worth it" or "no, other might not see the value in it that I do" and whether we should change that type of mindset. But you and ironhelm both brought up the very good notion of it being the audience who ultimately decides the worth of our music, which I at the time of writing my post had failed to consider.

[quote="Stuntddude"]Should you put your music up for a price? Absolutely, if you want to! Price it at however much you think it's worth, whether that's 10 cents or 100 dollars. You control your own business model and the great thing about self-publishing is that those decisions are nobody's to make but your own. But don't try to make others do the same if they don't want to. And certainly don't blame the people who are putting theirs up for free if your own isn't commercially successful.[/quote]
I'm sorry if it seemed like I was forcing ideals upon others or anything like that :c I meant for the post to be a discussion on the topic (which it has been brilliantly so far), and I certainly don't blame those who put music out for free for any sort of other peoples commercial failings.

[quote="Captain Ironhelm"]*ramble engaged*

[quote="Stuntddude"]
Should you put your music up for a price? Absolutely, if you want to! Price it at however much you think it's worth, whether that's 10 cents or 100 dollars. You control your own business model and the great thing about self-publishing is that those decisions are nobody's to make but your own. But don't try to make others do the same if they don't want to. And certainly don't blame the people who are putting theirs up for free if your own isn't commercially successful.[/quote]

I'd recommend pricing it to however much the [i]customer[/i] thinks it's worth. Simple A/B testing is a great way to find out what your customer base is willing to pay. This would be done with something simple like charging $12 on an album release and $5 on the next, testing to see how well a discount sale goes, etc. (If traffic volume is high enough, you can even profit off of free releases through ad revenue with places like youtube, adsense, adfly, etc.!)

[quote="Jokeblue"]But seriously, music's been devaluated so much.[/quote]
It's important not to value yourself according to how others value themselves. I know a web designer that charges $100 for a site, and another designer that charges $5000. Each do quite well, but they both figured out what worked best for themselves.

A million schmo's give their music away for free thinking that's all the marketing it'll take to make them "famous". Ok, great for them whatever they can keep their day jobs.
That doesn't mean you can't cut your own path through the clutter, build and connect with your audience and build your own value. A friend of mine in 3 years was able to build his audience to the point where his latest album made over 20k USD in sales.
You can't trust solely on talent taking you to success in this day and age. Maybe you could just send a tape to a record company 50 years ago or some other over-used strategy that worked once and that's all it'd take, but it's a different world now. You have to think of it like a business person, a freelancer, an entrepreneur. Somebody wants to make money off of something, well then act like it and build the business.

*vanishes like Batman*[/quote]
Really well said and I enjoy your contribution thoroughly. Your points on not valuing yourself by how's value themselves is really good and I'm all for the positivity of self worth.

You've both given me a lot more to think on and consider within this topic and I'm glad and thankful you've contributed your ideas as well.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I'm always second guessing the quality of my music tbh, I do things and I like them but I'm never really sure if it's as good as I think it is

[Freewave]

I want to make an album but I really don't think my music is worth paying for

this so much this.

You can do pay what you want if you're really ambivalent or a low price if you want to guarantee a small dedicated income ($3 to $5 is a good price for a non label album). One of my albums i did as a pay what you want and I've made $100-125 on it (not much but better than nothing). I know Cherax Destructor has made about $700 altogether when i talked to him in summer. I know when Jeff Burgess put his highly hyped Autumn Nights at $10 (cause thats how much he thought it should go for) it backfired and he only sold about 100 copies which is sad as it was incredibly awesome.

[Jokeblue]

Hmm for some reason my quote boxes won't work in that post. Maybe I just have too many or something? I'll see if I can fix it up cos it's a a bit of an eyesore right now. Anyway

I want to make an album but I really don't think my music is worth paying for

this so much this.

You can do pay what you want if you're really ambivalent or a low price if you want to guarantee a small dedicated income ($3 to $5 is a good price for a non label album). One of my albums i did as a pay what you want and I've made $100-125 on it (not much but better than nothing). I know Cherax Destructor has made about $700 altogether when i talked to him in summer. I know when Jeff Burgess put his highly hyped Autumn Nights at $10 (cause thats how much he thought it should go for) it backfired and he only sold about 100 copies which is sad as it was incredibly awesome.

Man, I guess a lot of people are just kind of fickle about set prices then. Maybe letting the audience decide the worth is kind of the way to go. I think Radiohead actually did that with their album In Rainbows, and apparently that did really well.

[Ricky Denzel]

I do not know what is going on, but I'm just gonna... yeah....




I love furries

[Jokeblue]

I do not know what is going on, but I'm just gonna... yeah....




I love furries

I SEE YOU THERE SMALL TEXT

[ExoBassTix]

https://soundcloud.com/warmonger-o/is-birth-on-day-happy-birth-happy-cake

HAPPY BIRTHDAY BASED PYRELIGHT

[Ricky Denzel]

Wait. It's her birthday? congrates, babe

EDIT: Don't know why, but it was funny

[MrBronyPlan]

New pocket watch came in today :D
I haven't a clue how many times to wind it though so I winded it several times and will see if it lasts 24 hours

[FLAOFEI]

I'm pretty sure most of those things can't be over winded. I think theres some kind of mechanism that uncouples the windy thing with the spring when the force reaches a certain midiclorian count... Read the manual tho...

So is it the real highend deal, or is it a slightly cheaper, but still pretty expensive version? Or is it made in China?
Allthough... a lot of cheap fairly good products come from China...

[MrBronyPlan]

I'm pretty sure most of those things can't be over winded. I think theres some kind of mechanism that uncouples the windy thing with the spring when the force reaches a certain midiclorian count... Read the manual tho...

So is it the real highend deal, or is it a slightly cheaper, but still pretty expensive version? Or is it made in China?
Allthough... a lot of cheap fairly good products come from China...

It was a $20 Mudder product. It did not come with instructions. It's not like I was trying to get something that was super expensive. Just some cool thing to have.