SPAM THREAD TIME GOGOGOGO

[Senator Myth]

No.

I totally faked you out there, didn't ? I'm so good at getting people into my threads by posting sensationalist titles.

I noticed that both my Makkon appreciation thread and the Jackle App promotion thread eventually devolved into a discussion of spam, which was not the intended topic of either. So this thread is for discussing the topic head-on and sharing our thoughts. Do so here.

Makkon's qualms seem to be

--We're not being a constructive music-centered community
--We're being cliquey.

Both of these are related to spam, but I think one question we need to address is where exactly does something begin being spam? In the News and Feedback thread, I-Pie, myself, and Glaze made a little joke that took up three posts. No big deal; I wouldn't quite call that spam, since we weren't derailing the thread; we were making a point (that the lake of tildes was on Circuit's side, not MLR's), albeit in a slightly silly way.

Two users immediately jumped in and basically went "OMG SPAM OMG GUYS STOP SPAMMING." At this point, these users had indeed derailed the thread from its topic, and had eaten up almost as many posts are our "spam". Honestly, it was just a little bit of isolated silliness. If we had gone on for a page in a half, then yes, it would have been spam. But the problem here was more caused by people who were ALARMED BY SPAM than by anyone actually spamming.

Evidently, spam's on everyone's mind. That's why we're here to discuss it.

So here's a question: what makes my Dwarf Fortress thread /not/ spam? It has absolutely nothing to do with music, and it is indeed a bit cliquey (although it doesn't have to be, everyone is free and encouraged to post in it).

This isn't a rhetorical question, or an accusatory one. What quality does this thread have that Makkon didn't descend on it like an angelic avenger of justice?



On the subject of clique-age, yes, it is indeed a bit of a problem. I have no idea how to address this issue. But I'd rather have an actively participating cliqueish community than see this board utterly dead and disengaged.

If Makkon wants us to post more constructively, then appointing Jackle App as a mod is not the answer (even though Jackle App goes with modship like bread with butter or Applejack with Rainbow Dash). That might make us cut down on all this alleged spam (I'm going to reiterate that alarmism about spam is now causing more trouble than the spam itself, which seems in my eyes to be winding down somewhat), but it isn't going to make us a model community that engages everyone. That's going to take something different.


TL;DR this is a thread for discussing spam issues. Not Jackle's moderator appointment thread, not anywhere else.

>inb4 someone just reads the thread title and jumps to conclusions without reading this post

[Stars In Autumn]

Maybe it's just me, but I think the topic that thejaws13 created where everyone just posted "ok" to his comment seems a bit rude, seeing as he's a new user and probably doesn't get the crazy antics of us. I don't see a problem with the copy paste images in the news and feedback thread, other than it's just off topic.

We have forums for the music oriented stuff and forums for non-music stuff, so if people want to make topics that descend into oatmeal on a non-music forum, then I don't see an issue with it at all. I just don't want anyone to be unintentionally rude to new users.

Maybe making an Oatmeal forum in the non-music section would be appropriate. Then anyone can pretty much post anything and not have it be off topic.

[Makkon]

Hookay then

Makkon's qualms seem to be

--We're not being a constructive music-centered community
--We're being cliquey.

Right, now I needn't mention that I'm the sole complainer. I'm just the only being vocal about it.

though I'm not sure why you went off on spam like that (19 entries lol).

I have no issues with your thread because of it's original intention. It's not like you were asking for technical help or honest feedback. You were playing a game with people. That was your intent, and that's the outcome. My main concern isn't so much spam. It's the waste of resources.

Let me put it this way: this site isn't free, it's being payed for. It was made to be a place for composers and musicians to get together and learn and grow together. We have a decent set up for that (and I feel that it could be improved).
Now you can be the judge at how well we're fulfilling that. But let me reiterate that I'm not that only upset about it. These things have been brought to my attention by a number of other people.

I need to go to work, but I'll be back in a bit. I do appreciate you making this topic though, Senator.

[Interrobang Pie]

g

We've got most of the good people with us anyway. Business as usual for me, I think.

Regarding the forums themselves, too many bloody subboards - proven here by NRG getting LOST in Makkon's labyrinth. There are a lot of boards which are just too similar anyway. Trying combining MLP:FiM, Community and Other Entertainment into one, maybe throw in Doodles while you're at it. Combine Remixes and Showcase and Other Remixes and Originals.

[PinkieGuy]

It was made to be a place for composers and musicians to get together and learn and grow together. We have a decent set up for that (and I feel that it could be improved).

I agree with this as a goal, but i've got to say: this seems like a lofty goal beyond the reaches of mortal men. From past experience dealing with a variety of music forums (aimed at both composition and production), it's hard to really learn and grow through a set of forums.

Case in point: the best learning that i've done through the MLR community is through skype chats with people. Take for example learning some synth work from Zorg or Massive techniques from... well just about anyone. In the forums however, whilst people have put forth information, i just can't engage with it properly.
Now, this may just have to do with being an auditory learner, but still, i've found the forums a place to gather as opposed to learn.

This being the case, I have a suggestion:

"Tutor of the week".
Each week, we get someone to post up a thread with them teaching something about what they specialize. Videos, techniques, patches, settings, stems, whole song files whatever they feel free and comfortable providing. They don't have to do all the work during that particular week, i.e. someone could start prepping for their week a month in advance. The point is that we have a shifting roster of positive educational information in a variety of styles and softwares being put forth consistently. This will help entice people new to the site (as alot of the most recent members are people who are only beginning in their quest to catch all 150 pokemon write music. Furthermore, it will help everyone here grow more.

Think of it as "Style Swap EXTREME". To further this point, Eurobeat Brony mentioned in skype that no-one ever writes Eurobeat music apart from him, which suprised him. Pickles and I both expressed some interest, but I have no idea where to start with that particular style.

Could you imagine how much interest there would be if Euro ran a workshop here?


/rant. I have more thoughts but I need to go work on tax law.

[Aussie]

"Tutor of the week".
Each week, we get someone to post up a thread with them teaching something about what they specialize. Videos, techniques, patches, settings, stems, whole song files whatever they feel free and comfortable providing. They don't have to do all the work during that particular week, i.e. someone could start prepping for their week a month in advance. The point is that we have a shifting roster of positive educational information in a variety of styles and softwares being put forth consistently. This will help entice people new to the site (as alot of the most recent members are people who are only beginning in their quest to catch all 150 pokemon write music. Furthermore, it will help everyone here grow more.

I REALLY REALLY REALLY LIKE THIS IDEA LETS DO IT

Maybe making an Oatmeal forum in the non-music section would be appropriate. Then anyone can pretty much post anything and not have it be off topic.

THIS IS ALSO A REALLY REALLY REALLY GOOD IDEA LETS DO IT ALSO

[X-Trav]

"Tutor of the week".
Each week, we get someone to post up a thread with them teaching something about what they specialize. Videos, techniques, patches, settings, stems, whole song files whatever they feel free and comfortable providing. They don't have to do all the work during that particular week, i.e. someone could start prepping for their week a month in advance. The point is that we have a shifting roster of positive educational information in a variety of styles and softwares being put forth consistently. This will help entice people new to the site (as alot of the most recent members are people who are only beginning in their quest to catch all 150 pokemon write music. Furthermore, it will help everyone here grow more.

THIS GUY.

HAS A GREAT IDEA, LET US DO IT.

[PinkieGuy]

EDIT: Having let this idea stew in my head for the past couple of hours, something else came to mind. This could be a great way to fill gaps between the Remix War periods. Only people who have the time to get involved will have to (such as my self in about 2 weeks time), but useful material could still be churned out at a constant rate.

Even better however, is when we have newer musicians having their weeks come up. People who are less confident in their style could still have a tutor week, showing how they currently go about their work. Then, veterans can give specific examples of how to improve their sound.

An example:
Week 1: Jackle App runs a tutorial on Electro-manliness*. Everyone learns a tonne, and showers Jackle with praise.
Week 2: ArtAttack runs a tutorial on Dubstep. Those interested in wobbles jones hard on AA's patches, and everyone new to dubstep learn a tonne.
Week 3: NoobMcNoobson runs a tutorial on dance music, which he started writing two weeks ago. NoobMcNoobson uses some of the techniques learn in the last two weeks, but still, his song needs work. However, people such as Pickles + Mumble offer suggestions on sidechain compression and being badass, both techniques which NoobMcNoobson has never heard of.
Normally, feedback on this forums can be vague or assume that people have a comparative understanding of sound production. However, this feedback is target specifically at NmN's weaknesses, because people have seen HOW he goes about writing. NmN learns and grows.

Etc ad infinitum.

I'm pretty pumped for this idea.


*Electro-manliness is now a genre.

[Dr_Dissonance]

That's a great idea Pinkieguy! I think the thread thing would be a good idea too, as it gives people the opportunity to post questions there as well!

[Makkon]

We've got most of the good people with us anyway. Business as usual for me, I think.

I can't agree with that mentality at all, besides the fact that it sounds like an excuse for you to go back to being trolly and scaring away new members. That's unacceptable. This site isn't free, and it's undermining why it even exists in the first place. Knock it off.

Regarding the forums themselves, too many bloody subboards - proven here by NRG getting LOST in Makkon's labyrinth.

That's a good suggestion, and I agree. The forum structure could use a little more work.

I agree with this as a goal, but i've got to say: this seems like a lofty goal beyond the reaches of mortal men. From past experience dealing with a variety of music forums (aimed at both composition and production), it's hard to really learn and grow through a set of forums.

While I agree that forums are clunky and that skype is perfect for such a thing, it's certainly not a lofty goal at all to want people to use a resource to their advantage. It just entirely depends on the people involved. I do agree that this makes a perfect gathering place, but there's a certain sturdiness and clarity to a forum that makes it good for going back to and reading over when needed. Which is why.....

"Tutor of the week"

... I think this is an utterly brilliant idea. I really want this to happen, I just have no idea where to start. This might be worth starting a new thread over so we can talk about the details and set up a roster.

Maybe making an Oatmeal forum in the non-music section would be appropriate

There's skype and the utter insanity that is IRC. No need for an oatmeal forum.


This has been a good discussion, guys! I really appreciate your feedback! Please if you have any more, keep it coming.

[JackleApp]

I personally haven't had many qualms about the site's layout (mostly because I'm partial to only one or two sub-boards, but anyway) Perhaps we should take time to go through and see which boards are the least active and make a decision to keep them or let them go.

The tutor idea that Pinkieguy brought up is quite possibly the coolest thing I ever heard. Honestly, that would bring about an entirely new purpose and mission for this site! Not just to give brony musicians a place to congregate, but it to educate anyone who's interested in music production/video production. I'd love to see that happen!

Perhaps an idea like that could garner its own sub-board explicitly for tutoring.
The tutor of that week would just start their thread and give a brief and general tutorial and then let people ask them questions (I'm probably just restating what Pinkieguy said, I'm just really in love with the idea)

Those who want to teach something can just ask a mod, or maybe we can have a sign up sheet with a weekly schedule!

I think Makkon's covered everything else of importance pretty thoroughly. I just wanted to throw in a few cents.

[PiercingSight]

I love the tutor of the week idea so much that I wouldn't mind it having it's own front page category. In fact i think it would be best that way.

About the "maze" of subcategories, I agree that there are too many. Because of the current speed of the forums, some of the sections almost seem uneccesary and could be combined with others.


Here's another idea I've had. I believe that for the sake of newcomers (and even vetrans) we have a front page category just for asking for help with a technique or software or whatever. Sort of an "ask the artists" board. This would be different than the tutorial thing because the new users won't be intimidated by the number of threads started by tutorial writers. It would be it's own place full of only questions and help requests. This would better bring a more "sharing amd caring" attitude among the forums by giving the new users friends from the beginning.

I'll think on this some more and come back to ya'll.

[PiercingSight]

Also, just an idea. How about renaming and rewording of the current catergories? Like, instead of the intimidating "Technique" category, we have the inviting "Tutorial" category and the "Ask the artist" category? Simply for the sake of making it sound a little more welcome to newcomers of the forums and even newcomers to writing and composing music.

[PinkieGuy]

Well, I have a hectic Tax Law assignment due on friday which will hopefully be finished in the next 48 hours. Once that is out of the way (anywhere between this time tomorrow and the next day), I should have enough time to get involved with developing this idea to the point that I can put forward a more thorough proposal for you guys.

Two stray thoughts whilst I'm here though:
1) Instead of "Tutor of the week", it should be a name similar to "Artist Training Grounds". That way, people who are familiar with the idea from EqD in terms of visual art will have some idea what our new system is seeking to provide: a community based on the improvement of musical skill.
2) Whilst the roster system should provide equal opportunity to all those who wish to host a tutor week, irregardless of skill or fame, I think it's important that at least the first few weeks are based on 'known entities'. That's good PR for our community, could help remove any negative stigma about our community being cliquey, and will also likely include a lot of material that people want to know. Let's face it, there must be a reason that the famous muso-bronies are famous. I want them to teach me what it is so that I too can have excessive subscribers.

Anyway, that's my final thoughts for now, and like I said, i'll hopefully have a full proposal for you guys within a few days.

EDIT: Makkon: In regards to before, I agree lofty was probably an over exaggeration. My first coffee hadn't kicked in, and I wasn't in a very optimistic mood until I the tutor idea struck.

[bartekko]

(the stuff in parentheses is my second mind)
Wait, the site is paid for? (well, of course it is, it's a no-ad .com site)
Then why does this site have to be .com, can't it be hosted on some kind of free domain? (yes, but it looks totally unprofessional this way)

Can't this site have adverts? (maybe, but no-one likes advertised sites, and what'd you advertise here anyway? Stop with these ideas before makkon makes one come to life!!!)