The Zimmerman Trial (Be Nice)

[Freewave]

I saw the video too 9 volt.

But is that a fact they are really spouting (proven and repeated more than just THIS video, ie sources are out there)? And even after what's the point? So if he's a black kid and did drugs it's ok that he died? That doing drugs mean he's at fault for Zimmerman thinking he's a criminal because he must have looked up his facebook bio, found 2/3 of LEan ingredients, before trailing him? The reason why it wasn't included in the court trial is because it would paint an unfair picture of someone who can't refute it because he's dead AND because they weren't relevent to this case.

For all their claims the mainstream media got it wrong (and they likely did) they may also be painting a well presented but factually inaccurate and biased video. If the rest of their videos are biased and laughable why would we wholeheartedly trust THIS one.

[Nine Volt]

I saw the video too 9 volt.

But is that a fact they are really spouting (proven and repeated more than just THIS video, ie sources are out there)?

Trayvon's autopsy for the liver damage part, I'm sure you could look it up and find it. His Facebook/texts could presumably be found as well.

And even after what's the point? So if he's a black kid and did drugs it's ok that he died?

Nobody has said that. That's not why it was pointed out.

That doing drugs mean he's at fault for Zimmerman thinking he's a criminal because he must have looked up his facebook bio, found 2/3 of LEan ingredients, before trailing him?

You are making a massive leap in judgment. Nobody ever said it was OK that he died. I am trying to say that drugs may have indeed been a factor in the case, and that he wasn't just going to 7-11 to buy candy.

The reason why it wasn't included in the court trial is because it would paint an unfair picture of someone who can't refute it because he's dead AND because they weren't relevent to this case.

If Trayvon was abusing drugs then it is most certainly relevant to the case, especially if aggression and paranoia are common side effects of the drug he was using.

Bottom line, it doesn't mean he's at fault. What that part of the video is trying to disprove is the idea that it was a "cute, innocent kid going to 7-11 to buy candy and was shot by the evil racist George Zimmerman for being black", which is apparently a common portrayal of Trayvon in the media, and an outright incorrect one.

[Freewave]

I agree that i never assumed that Trayvon was necessarily an innocent kid but i do have a problem with a conservative thinktank video that character assassinates someone who can't publically defend himself OR say what actually occurred. I think it's in their political interest to portray him that way and they have done so. It all comes down to do you believe what they have pulled together or is just another HALF truth by yet another media orgnaization? Another media bias but in the OTHER direction.

Again I'm not accusing YOU of coming to those conslusions in my prior post, i do think that this video is making those leaps and conclusions and expecting people to buy into them.

In the end the trial seems to have been played out fairly but that did not include HALF the stuff the video talked about because it just wasn't relevent to the investigation. I have to believe that "facts" would be used as evidence in a criminal trial if they were relevent.

[Navron]

So was he doing "mixed martial arts" on top of Zimmerman or bashing his head into the ground? This story keeps changing to suit who is telling it.

Could be both, judging from the pictures of Zimmerman's injuries.

Saying that he had 2 of the 3 ingredients to make Lean is different then implying he was ON IT or HAD made it. Is there proof he had liver damage?

Source: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/image ... ?hpt=hp_t2 (Page 4)

You're assuming that because they said it in this video and they sourced it from information on the internet and they repeated it that it's true. Only way to VERIFY that is to go through the same evidence. Otherwise you're effectively watching a 9/11 theorist video or a Michael Moore doc and not digging deeper at "facts" are being manipulated.

But is that a fact they are really spouting (proven and repeated more than just THIS video, ie sources are out there)? And even after what's the point? So if he's a black kid and did drugs it's ok that he died? That doing drugs mean he's at fault for Zimmerman thinking he's a criminal because he must have looked up his facebook bio, found 2/3 of LEan ingredients, before trailing him? The reason why it wasn't included in the court trial is because it would paint an unfair picture of someone who can't refute it because he's dead AND because they weren't relevent to this case.

It's absolutely relevant to the case. It brings credibility to Zimmerman's original 911 call saying, "...looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something," and it's backed up by the autopsy report, facebook posts, and the fact that the only 2 things he bought at the 7-Eleven just happen to be 2 key ingredients to make lean from. Then there's the fact the side effects of DXM use happen to coincide with the type of behavior that Zimmerman describes, and brings more credibility to his claim that he was attacked by Martin.

For all their claims the mainstream media got it wrong (and they likely did) they may also be painting a well presented but factually inaccurate and biased video. If the rest of their videos are biased and laughable why would we wholeheartedly trust THIS one.

Because the media has been caught red-handed in this case deliberately manipulating and withholding evidence?

Not saying that this video couldn't be doing the same, but don't you find it odd the mainstream media hasn't released any of Martin's facebook posts or tweets?

Every bit of evidence that has surfaced in this case has only given Zimmerman's story more credibility.

I have to believe that "facts" would be used as evidence in a criminal trial if they were relevent.

Like the facts that ultimately led to the ruling of, "not guilty?"

Everything about this trial was against George Zimmerman, from the media, the public opinion, the DOJ, the president, and even the jury selection. Do you think that the only people scouring the internet for evidence happen to be pro-Zimmerman? I'm sure if Zimmerman said some racist remarks on FB, twitter, or did anything in the past to indicate he was racist, they would have surfaced A LONGGG time ago.

It's just simply logic at this point, and it's illogical to crucify a man for defending himself when all evidence points to his story being true.

[caprixsnare]

did they show the number of fights in his school per person (also the there was a girl who happened to be his best friend she did say he did get into like two fights in the court discussion to defend her), i don't see how texting people in a sexually aggressive manor can mean anything if they cant show it the people who want to know (im just saying if hes dead he wont care so effen show it). the facts if trey was alive I'm not sure how he would respond but then again trey is dead. trey was suspicious he got into a fight and died because he attacked the wrong person who happened to have a firearm also had an internet history more suspicious than half the male populations pron history and may have went to bazzers on a daily basis.

[Nine Volt]

did they show the number of fights in his school per person (also the there was a girl who happened to be his best friend she did say he did get into like two fights in the court discussion to defend her), i don't see how texting people in a sexually aggressive manor can mean anything if they cant show it the people who want to know (im just saying if hes dead he wont care so effen show it). the facts if trey was alive I'm not sure how he would respond but then again trey is dead. trey was suspicious he got into a fight and died because he attacked the wrong person who happened to have a firearm also had an internet history more suspicious than half the male populations pron history and may have went to bazzers on a daily basis.

Can you please type properly? Stuff like this is very hard to follow.

Also, his name is Trayvon, not "trey". It's his first name. His last name is Martin.

Regarding your last statement:

trey was suspicious he got into a fight and died because he attacked the wrong person who happened to have a firearm also had an internet history more suspicious than half the male populations pron history and may have went to bazzers on a daily basis.

I can barely tell what you're trying to say here but I'm going to go with what I think you're saying: Where is your source on the fact that Zimmerman's internet history is suspicious? That last segment doesn't make sense at all; who went to "bazzers" (I assumed you mean Brazzer?) every day? Half the male population or Zimmerman himself? Even if he does, that's really inconsequential to the discussion at a whole and really is probably not true.

[caprixsnare]

I'm saying i have my own theory but it doesn't matter because treyvon martin is dead. woopsy

[Freewave]

But is that a fact they are really spouting (proven and repeated more than just THIS video, ie sources are out there)? And even after what's the point? So if he's a black kid and did drugs it's ok that he died? That doing drugs mean he's at fault for Zimmerman thinking he's a criminal because he must have looked up his facebook bio, found 2/3 of LEan ingredients, before trailing him? The reason why it wasn't included in the court trial is because it would paint an unfair picture of someone who can't refute it because he's dead AND because they weren't relevent to this case.

It's absolutely relevant to the case. It brings credibility to Zimmerman's original 911 call saying, "...looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something," and it's backed up by the autopsy report, facebook posts, and the fact that the only 2 things he bought at the 7-Eleven just happen to be 2 key ingredients to make lean from. Then there's the fact the side effects of DXM use happen to coincide with the type of behavior that Zimmerman describes, and brings more credibility to his claim that he was attacked by Martin.

I don't get what you're inferring here. You're wanting to see this as a "good guy" tried to stop a "bad guy". That he's just some punk kid who deserved to die. That's why i don't buy into this character assassination of that video and what the next logical leap is.

The cops told Zimmerman not to follow him and he did. He wasn't a cop and being on drugs or going home to do drugs doesn't mean you're going around committing crimes on the way home. Does it? Heroes can interrupt crimes as they HAPPEN or they get involved and accidentally kill people who weren't bothering anyone before they were PROVOKED. If Trayvon has killed Zimmerman it would be him going to jail. Instead Zimmerman forced the issue and ultimately killed someone who didn't need to die and gets off for it.

I'm not refuting that Zimmerman had a claim of self defense or that the trial ruled wrong. I am saying he actually did have a reason based on the fact that Treyvon MAY have thrown the first punch and ultimately caused more damage to Zimmerman to where he had to protect himself. I don't think Zimmerman should have been crucified in the media as he was or that media got it right, but i also don't think that Trayvon HAD to die or that Zimmerman didn't set this whole thing off. If people want to start scourging through facebook posts to justify this kids death they are missing the point, he paid the ultimate price for attacking/defending against a guy with a gun. He's still the victim as ultimately Zimmerman is as well.

[ganondox]

I agree that i never assumed that Trayvon was necessarily an innocent kid but i do have a problem with a conservative thinktank video that character assassinates someone who can't publically defend himself OR say what actually occurred. I think it's in their political interest to portray him that way and they have done so. It all comes down to do you believe what they have pulled together or is just another HALF truth by yet another media orgnaization? Another media bias but in the OTHER direction.

Yes, PJ Media probably has some ulterior motives. However, that does not change that fact that the information they present is factually accurate, and while the way they presented it may be misleading, the individual pieces of information are enough to raise some suspicion, and the path they took to reach their conclusion is logically sound. Again, Ad Hominem.

The cops told Zimmerman not to follow him and he did. He wasn't a cop and being on drugs or going home to do drugs doesn't mean you're going around committing crimes on the way home. Does it? Heroes can interrupt crimes as they HAPPEN or they get involved and accidentally kill people who weren't bothering anyone before they were PROVOKED. If Trayvon has killed Zimmerman it would be him going to jail. Instead Zimmerman forced the issue and ultimately killed someone who didn't need to die and gets off for it.

The cops did not tell Zimmerman to do anything until Trayvon was already dead. It was the 911 dispatcher who said "You don't need to do that" in response to Zimmmerman stating that he was following him. Zimmerman was under no legal obligation to follow a dispatcher's advise. It usually isn't very smart to disobey a dispatcher, but it's legal to. Zimmerman wasn't acting as a cop, he was doing his job as nightwatchman by surveying the community and trying to gather information about suspicious persons.

[Navron]

I don't get what you're inferring here. You're wanting to see this as a "good guy" tried to stop a "bad guy". That he's just some punk kid who deserved to die. That's why i don't buy into this character assassination of that video and what the next logical leap is.

It's not a typical good guy/bad guy type of scenario. Trayvon was not breaking any laws that warranted any kind of police response, but from what we can gather he was acting suspicious, based on the fact alone that he had ample time to return to his home, but did not.

The cops told Zimmerman not to follow him and he did. He wasn't a cop and being on drugs or going home to do drugs doesn't mean you're going around committing crimes on the way home. Does it? Heroes can interrupt crimes as they HAPPEN or they get involved and accidentally kill people who weren't bothering anyone before they were PROVOKED. If Trayvon has killed Zimmerman it would be him going to jail. Instead Zimmerman forced the issue and ultimately killed someone who didn't need to die and gets off for it.

If you're a neighborhood watch for a gated community, it's part of your job to report suspicious activity. That doesn't mean you don't have a right to approach the person yourself and ask them what they're doing. It may not be a very wise decision to approach somebody you may consider suspicious, but there is nothing unlawful about it, and I think it's very well within the right of a neighborhood watch to question anybody they don't recognize walking around in a gated community after dark.

Once again, there is no evidence that Zimmerman provoked Martin, or did anything to instigate a fight. All we know is Zimmerman chose to pursue Martin, whether to get a better visual ID or simply to ask him directly if he lived in the area, both of which are completely within his rights as the neighborhood watch. The next thing we know is a fight broke out a fair distance from Trayvon's home that doesn't correlate, because Trayvon should have been at (or nearly at) his house by the time Zimmerman even rounded the north corner where he saw Trayvon, which is also where the fight took place, indicating that Trayvon was likely waiting for Zimmerman.

but i also don't think that Trayvon HAD to die or that Zimmerman didn't set this whole thing off. If people want to start scourging through facebook posts to justify this kids death they are missing the point, he paid the ultimate price for attacking/defending against a guy with a gun. He's still the victim as ultimately Zimmerman is as well.

That's taking away any form of responsibility on Trayvon's part. He was just shy of 18, and if he killed Zimmerman, he would have been tried for murder as an adult. This isn't like a 13 y/o kid who kills somebody that isn't fully aware or mature enough to understand the potential consequences of their actions. This is (for all intents and purposes) a fully grown adult who made a conscious decision to viciously attack another person with no provocation other than they were following them.

Any loss of life is a tragic situation, but you're making it sound as if Zimmerman forced some kid to instinctively react without having any other choice, effectively eliminating all responsibility from Trayvon and placing it all on Zimmerman.

The real tragedy in this situation, is it illustrates the growing mindset that people don't have to take responsibility for their actions. The obese blame fast food companies or undiagnosed medical disorders for making them fat. People self-diagnose themselves with Aspergers when they fail at establishing social relationships. Drivers blame the driver in front of them when they crash because they followed too closely. Trayvon was just a kid who didn't know what he was doing, etc.

If there's a group of people to blame, it's the parents who fail to raise their children to be adults capable of taking responsibility for their own actions, and to be quite honest, I think Trayvon (like many teenagers/adults that slide down a bad path so early) was raised unfairly, and the situation that led to his death was neither his fault, nor Zimmerman's fault, but rather the fault of a broken, never ending system that plagues the lower-income families and communities. That is where the true blame for this tragedy should fall.



@itroitnyah:
With the exception of your brief argument over copyright law, this topic has remained on-topic. It has not devolved into an open discussion of law in general, much less copyright law. Please stop attempting to derail the topic.

[Freewave]

If there's a group of people to blame, it's the parents who fail to raise their children to be adults capable of taking responsibility for their own actions, and to be quite honest, I think Trayvon (like many teenagers/adults that slide down a bad path so early) was raised unfairly, and the situation that led to his death was neither his fault, nor Zimmerman's fault, but rather the fault of a broken, never ending system that plagues the lower-income families and communities. That is where the true blame for this tragedy should fall.

I completely agree with that.