Official Discussion Thread (Ghost Edit)

Sports, politics, movies, videogames, questionable hobbies, photos from your family vacation, etc. Talk about stuff that isn't ponies or music. But do try to stay on topic and respectful of alternate opinions.

Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby ph00tbag » 17 May 2014 21:41

Viricide Filly wrote:superior quality over CDs they have.

Debatable. Early CDs weren't great, to be sure, but that was because encoding formats weren't as sophisticated. It's pretty much a mathematical fact that there is no loss of information in 44.1 kHz at 16 bit PCM (which is the ideal format for a CD these days) that can be heard by normal human ears. A properly manufactured and pressed Audio CD is indistinguishable from a properly manufactured vinyl record. Assuming proper manufacturing (and storage), it's even debatable the two will be different 100 years from now.

For what it's worth, there's loss in vinyl, too, because the needle has a width. There is only so narrow a groove the needle can settle into, meaning that there's only so small a wavelength that can be recorded. Naturally, this limitation is well outside the range of human hearing, but that's really the whole question: can you hear the difference? Under the most ideal circumstances, you cannot hear the difference.

So what about that "raw" sound? Electrostatic hum. Dust settling on the record while it plays. Feedback from the speakers if the table is in the same room, and the music is played loud enough to vibrate it. The imperfections of analogue transmission of audio in commercial record players is what actually makes vinyl so popular. Given that, what eery says is perfectly true. If people who listen to vinyl listen to it for its imperfections, then that's pretty much exactly what people who listen to audio cassettes do it for; the properties of tape hiss and electrostatic hum are desirable to them.

Granted, when a CD is played back in less than ideal conditions, after improper storage, it's hard to argue that it still sounds "good." But I would hardly argue that vinyl is superior because it degrades more gracefully.
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby topitmunkeydog » 17 May 2014 21:43

I love using cassettes and CDs! I don't have the means to play vinyl things but that would be fun too. I enjoy listening to all the sorts of formats.

in other words I recorded another piano song.
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby Bronies Are Cool » 17 May 2014 21:49

taZe wrote:Oh hey everybody, what's going on in he....
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Hey. I understand you are new here, but I'm just gonna say this now. This is NOT a spam thread so posts like this do not belong here. Please read the rules in the OP and let's carry on shall we?
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby Bronies Are Cool » 17 May 2014 22:12

I got a spotlight onto EQD today. I started that song 24 hours ago. I spent about 1 hour and 10 minutes making it. I submitted it this morning. Instant acceptance. What!?!?
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby Fl Brony » 17 May 2014 22:18

Which song is it?
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby Bronies Are Cool » 17 May 2014 23:55

It's called destruction. I was using my real name for that. I believe it is the last one on the music of the day post.
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby S.P.P » 18 May 2014 02:09

Good job dude! Congrats :3
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby Mr. Bigglesworth » 18 May 2014 02:30

Congrats bac, I might go check it out later!
I'm not here anymore, but if you want you can still just call me Mr. BigBagelBoggle!

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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby simonli2575 » 18 May 2014 03:31

Bronies Are Cool wrote:I got a spotlight onto EQD today. I started that song 24 hours ago. I spent about 1 hour and 10 minutes making it. I submitted it this morning. Instant acceptance. What!?!?

Just listened to it, it was nice but I felt post-apocalypse (or some name relating to this) could be a better title. Congrats on making your first(?) spotlight on EQD.
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby Viricide Filly » 18 May 2014 04:03

Yeah man congrats ^^

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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby ph00tbag » 18 May 2014 05:38

Bronies Are Cool wrote:I got a spotlight onto EQD today. I started that song 24 hours ago. I spent about 1 hour and 10 minutes making it. I submitted it this morning. Instant acceptance. What!?!?

Congrats. I'm sure you'll wind up feeling like some of your best stuff doesn't get the credit it deserves, and the stuff you don't feel you put enough effort into, or weren't particularly effective at, will get more recognition than you think it warrants.
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby Viricide Filly » 18 May 2014 07:13

I still prefer Vinyl over CDs and I think they definitely sound better than CDs. There's nothing quite like taking that huge round bit of plastic out of a beautiful gate fold record and sticking it onto the player, putting the needle down, hearing the vinyl crackle just before the first song hits etc. There's something magical about it that CDs don't have. What's so fun or cool about putting a small shiney disc into an automatic CD drive? You may as well just have the MP3s on your computer instead. At least then you won't have to be careful with smudging the damn CD.
Whenever I listen to records the quality is so raw and..welll.."there". And don't ask me what I mean by Raw. I dunno how to explain it but it's the only word I can find that'll fit with what I'm trying to get at. Anyways. It feels like the band's actually there in the room at times, especially if you close your eyes and just listen. CDs feel extremely temporary to me. You put it in your computer, rip it, and there you go. Your over-produced tat is ready to be double clicked any time you want to listen to it through your sennheisers or whatever. It takes away so much of the magic that it's almost depressing at times. I always try and look for a record of an album I want if I want a physical copy of it because to me, Records are just better.
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby Bronies Are Cool » 18 May 2014 08:17

Everyone wrote:Congrats

Thanks.
ph00tbag wrote:
Bronies Are Cool wrote:I got a spotlight onto EQD today. I started that song 24 hours ago. I spent about 1 hour and 10 minutes making it. I submitted it this morning. Instant acceptance. What!?!?

Congrats. I'm sure you'll wind up feeling like some of your best stuff doesn't get the credit it deserves, and the stuff you don't feel you put enough effort into, or weren't particularly effective at, will get more recognition than you think it warrants.

I agree with this 100% right now. This song had almost no effort put into it. I was actually originally making this song an trying to copy Porter Robinson on one of his recent songs for part of it. And I just made a little thin around it and thought it sounded a bit more like a battle scene and apocalypse type song thingy. So, I finished it like that and then sent it to EQD just to see what would happen.
This is also kind of my first mlp song. Buts its kind of PINO tbh. I only got the idea of destruction and tirek in the last 20 minutes of making this. I didn't start off trying to make a pony song. [prepares for disapproving piers]
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby Stuntddude » 18 May 2014 11:45

Viricide Filly wrote:Granted, when a CD is played back in less than ideal conditions, after improper storage, it's hard to argue that it still sounds "good."

Not necessarily true - information on CDs is stored in purely digital form, so any degradation in quality would have to come from physical damage (scratches, mostly) causing data corruption. And even then, the chances of that causing a slight degradation in quality are virtually nil - it's far, far, far more likely to result in outright corruption - that is, a short burst of garbage data (static) at a point where it's scratched, or some sort of skipping effect. At that point it's not really a matter if it sounding "good" anymore and more a matter of it being uncorrupted. Other than that, by the very nature of it being digital, you'll get the exact same data, bit-for-bit, every time you play the CD unless it's acutely damaged.

Basically, people only ever listen to low-fi mediums like vinyl or cassettes for one of two reasons:
1. They don't actually understand how audio works, and are under the false impression that vinyl offers better quality, or that analog stuff is better than the equivalent digital stuff (both of which are obviously false if you have a decent understanding of audio engineering and how digital and analog sound actually work).
2. They understand that they're getting a lower-fidelity sound, but they don't mind because they like having physical, analog mediums for music as part of the aesthetic of listening that helps them enjoy the music better, or they're fond of the little imperfections that come from the medium that give it a distinctive, or "colored," sound.

Specifically with the first half of reason #2, the same often goes for getting physical CDs as opposed to digital downloads. Many people find there's just something nice and satisfying about having a real material version of the music, although with CDs there's not (usually) a quality difference, as the digital data you're getting is oftentimes literally identical.

Obviously, the second is a totally valid reason for preferring vinyl and cassette stuff, and the first is not. I can't personally related to either reason at all, but I think it's important to recognize the legitimacy of the different ways that different people prefer to experience art (in this case, music).
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby ExoBassTix » 18 May 2014 15:38

I wonder what would happen if someone on MLR would step up and create a compilation project for Avant-Garde music.
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby ph00tbag » 18 May 2014 17:49

Stuntddude wrote:Not necessarily true - information on CDs is stored in purely digital form, so any degradation in quality would have to come from physical damage (scratches, mostly) causing data corruption. And even then, the chances of that causing a slight degradation in quality are virtually nil - it's far, far, far more likely to result in outright corruption - that is, a short burst of garbage data (static) at a point where it's scratched, or some sort of skipping effect. At that point it's not really a matter if it sounding "good" anymore and more a matter of it being uncorrupted. Other than that, by the very nature of it being digital, you'll get the exact same data, bit-for-bit, every time you play the CD unless it's acutely damaged.

Well, this is really what I'm referring to. If a CD is degraded enough that data is lost (let's say through corrosion caused by an imperfect seal in the plastic), and skipping occurs as a result, then yeah, I think you'd have to have a pretty malleable definition of good to really enjoy it.
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby Bronies Are Cool » 18 May 2014 19:18

ExoBassTix wrote:I wonder what would happen if someone on MLR would step up and create a compilation project for Avant-Garde music.

Please inform my ignorant mind on what this is
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby ph00tbag » 18 May 2014 20:51

Avant-Garde is more just a description of intent than a genre. Usually stuff that's Avant-Garde is just plain weird. I remember having to perform one tune as part of a music seminar in high school that involved waving a sheet of aluminum, sighing, and strumming piano strings.

It's interesting, though. Audiences these days are typically tolerant of some really out there stuff. Avant-Garde used to be about challenging preconceptions about music, and the greatest measure of your success was whether you caused a riot. These days you can pretty much feed the audience anything, and they'll just take whatever you give them. I feel that dynamic makes the performances much less entertaining.
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby Stuntddude » 19 May 2014 01:38

ph00tbag wrote:Well, this is really what I'm referring to. If a CD is degraded enough that data is lost (let's say through corrosion caused by an imperfect seal in the plastic), and skipping occurs as a result, then yeah, I think you'd have to have a pretty malleable definition of good to really enjoy it.

Okay, I was a bit confused. Sorry to be so reiterative.
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby ExoBassTix » 19 May 2014 11:32

One's definition of quality is subjective, guys :P
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby LFP » 19 May 2014 12:12

But that doesn't matter in the context if CDs lose quality.
Since there's pretty much no quality loss when playing/converting to a cd, it doesn't matter if your definition for quality is a super-distorted ear shattering sound, there's still no loss in quality =)
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby eery » 19 May 2014 12:19

ExoBassTix wrote:One's definition of quality is subjective, guys :P


No, its really not. Not in this context. We're talking about how good of a storage medium for information it is. The format that deteriorates less over time, does have the better quality.
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby FritzyBeat » 19 May 2014 14:26

eery wrote:
ExoBassTix wrote:One's definition of quality is subjective, guys :P


No, its really not. Not in this context. We're talking about how good of a storage medium for information it is. The format that deteriorates less over time, does have the better quality.

Rather, the format that deteriorates less over time has the better longevity, something can still be crap but last for a long time in the same shape as when it was first purchased, hence why the term quality is subjective. However, if you base your judgment of quality on how long something will stay tip-top over time, then yes that can very much equal quality, but quality for someone else may still be based on a different medium. Therefore, quality is still subjective as long as different types of the same product have different advantages that fit different people's needs.

I have no Idea what we're talking about here, I just had to jump in and play the grammar nazi. Have a cookie~
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby TWILICORN » 19 May 2014 14:30

Oh god what have I started
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Re: Official Discussion thread (for discussions)

Postby ExoBassTix » 19 May 2014 15:18

I thought people were talking about why cassette/vinyl/CD is all-over superior to all other media sorts whatever.
And it all comes down on what your priorities are.
Nostalgia, high-quality, and experience are all factors that apply.
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