Tips on genres?

[bartekko]

So:

I am able to make listenable techno, but it's just not enough for me. And at today's piano lesson I had a sudden though: since we've got so many musicians in here, why not ask somepony what they think is most important/less important/completes the song that makes a rock song "rock", classical stuff "classical", pop pop, and everything.

Are there some ponies willing to take time and explain the structure of a genre they make, (and may it be something more than just " Hardstyle is all about overdriving the kick" or "dubstep needs 140 BPM, and lfo controlled Low pass filter"

I am interested especially in orchestral and ambient/chillout, but I appreciate all genres the same
(yes, speedcore too)

[zorg]

since i'm mentally tired now, i just want to inject something in here:
rc88's track in the mane6 game, that loops on the apple family's farm. that has so many genres that i feel compelled to hate him only because how... yes, how good he is.
that'd be all.

...by the way, to say something more relevant;
i don't believe i genres at all. i choose my BPMs as i see it fitting, and i might put an lfo on it just because i can.
from my experience, i can approximate many genres by first getting a melody, maybe with chords under or over it too (under/over means in frequency in this case), and i usually use simple instruments, like a sine or triangle. if the melody is too weak, i put squarewave progressions under it. From here, i can almost always decide what "genre" i want the song to go towards to... or more precisely, i know what the song wants to be. silly, but worksforme. after all that, i add the drums or otherwise percrussive, non-tonal instruments (if i use them as tonal, then i make those parts before the non-tonal, always.) Finally, i listen to it, and if it needs mastering, only then i do mastering; otherwise i just fix the levels as i go, so that i can AVOID the possibility of brutally mangling my soundscape. there is such a thing as too much mastering. (and i did fall into that trap a few too many times :c ) Oh yeah, any effects like flanging phasing delay etc., i add it as i go along, not all at the end. Another thing, a truck should always sound different, be it either a soundwall or a minimalistic something or other, if that main quality goes with the instruments, levels, and if the instruments' final sounds go well with each other, then i can call that a "finished" song. (example for not going well with each other would be my Petrified Orchards track on soundcloud, the only problems with it is that the noise sweeps and the filtered drums sound too much in the foreground, they should be more blurry, in the back.. i will fix those later.)

Take the time to parse my way too long block of text, and don't don't read it, or do don't, i don't care.
- Summer Glau :3

[SuperGiantRobot]

Too many dos and don'ts there. I think you may have created some sort of paradox.

Seriously; stop doing that. The neighbors are complaining.

[zorg]

sorry, i tend to write in such convoluted style, but i'm sure that if you try, you can distill the gist of it.
it was raw train of thought right there, i just typed what came to my mind.

but yeah, a tl;dr version just for you:

that's how i work. find your own workflow.

[Andy Feelin]

We have a thread where everypony is explaining theirs approach to music.
http://www.mylittleremix.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=302

So Bartek, I am not sure if I understand correctly what you want us to write. Do you want to know how to create "rock" or "trip hop" or you want to know how we all choose our genres?

You know, sometimes I do say: "Let's make a eurodance song", but each time I add lots of features that are not typical for eurodance at all like simmons synth toms, guitar solos or orchestra hits - not because I want to make a specific crossover genre, but simply because I think it fits my song. And sometimes I just start making something and don't care what genre it belongs to.

[bartekko]

you didn't understand me, andy. I wanted to know the overall style, not the specific approach of everyone.

it's more like: rock melodies are more often than not based on rhyhthm more than on actual melodies because guitar requires fretting and so it's very hard to play complicated sequences.

and not like in this thread: when I make rock, I always overdrive the guitar using X, then add a lot of kick and a basic snare on two and four

[Andy Feelin]

First of all, there must be pretty enough information on the internet. Second, it is about writing a book if one tries to explain tips to ALL the genres of music. Thirdly, most of "genres" terms are very subjective, so you'd better listen to the music tagged with some genre name and work out the tips for yourself. If ever you have a problem with finding those tips, ask here about the particular genre, not about EVERY genre.

[Icky]

Hardstyle

Listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIVxIq0PlvM

- Intro often introducing the theme of the track
- Screeches (sawleads with a pitchbend)
- After the intro there's usually a breakdown, sometimes with some orchestral sounds, vocals and other stuff like that
- Melody gets introduced
- Melodies often in swing
- Buildup towards climax
- Climax with distorted 909 kicks
- Outro, usually the same or slightly different as the intro

Thats all I've got.

[bartekko]

yeah, this thread was very random, and pretty much nonsensical: TO Da spam threaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.
BE- YOTCH

[[voodoopony]]

IMHO Genres are a joke.

Yet I think some things are meant to have them, like acid house or jazz, depending on the artist's sole intentions. I just think it's arrogant to go around sealing every inch of the known musical universe with silly names you find fitting. It takes the musical focus away and we pretty much forget the point of listening to music in the first place.

[Dr_Dissonance]

Genres are purely a method of marketing music to the right customer...it's more to do with who will buy the music if it's labelled as such, the music itself only has very vague connotation to the genre...
It's all about the money people!

[[voodoopony]]

What the doctor said.

So if you see your stuff lined up next to Rusko or the orchestral soundtrack to Twilight at your local music vomitorium, don't pull off a Jesus and knock all the tables over and shit. It'll only make you look silly.

[Andy Feelin]

I think genres names are part of show business. They help the listener/consumer to guide their way among tons of music. So the producer/manager needs some word to describe their product to attract listeners.

[MichaelA]

I make eurotrance. Eurotrance is actually a pretty hard genre to make good music in(or, at least the way I do my eurotrance). Most eurotrance songs are very generic, but I try to incorperate trance and house elements into my music.
So for eurotrance, this is what you need to know:
-130-150 bpm, Though I make mine in 160
-Hard sawtooth upbeat bass
-Kicks on the downbeats, open hats on the upbeats, clap/snare on 2+4, and what I like to call a subhat, which is pretty much just a closed hat doing 16th notes at around 50% volume.
-Pads. Pads go a long way in eurotrance.
-Automation. You need to be a pro at this, for all the sidechaining, filters, volume, and effect you use.
-Good EQ'ing. This goes for any genre, but eurotrance/trance has a lot of bass in it, I usually remove 50% of the bass because there's too much and it causes clipping.
-There's always a catchy melody. All good trance songs have good melodies.
-Plucks are usually used on the upbeats occasionally, like on the upbeat of beat 3 every 4 bars.

That's pretty much all you need to know ::P

[PinkieGuy]

So, i'm going to jump in on this thread for 2 reason.

1) I agree that genres are a silly thing, and actively seek to pigeonhole the creative process. That being said, there are common elements through different artists or styles of writing that mean that general forms of genre can be found. Take for example the 'djent' phenomenon.

The term djent is a reference to a particular sound on an electric guitar. It's made by playing a stacked power chord with very heavy palm muting. Additionally, the guitars in questions are generally detuned lower than B and are distorted with a heavy focus on increased mids. This creates a robotic "djenty" sound to the chord.

However, the term djent has been used over the last 2-3 years to describe an (increasing) number of metal bands which perform groove based music on 7+ string guitars. Inspired by bands such as Periphery or Meshuggah, these bands incorporated elements to metal that had not existed (to that degree) previously. People started using djent as a subgenre for this reason.

That being said, ultimately the line between these 'djent bands' and other metal bands is only by the most tenuous of threads in most cases. In particular, technical metal has existed in similar forms for decades. Despite this, large portions of the internet seek to label this particular style as something specific. What was originally a rhythmical technique has come to refer to an entire style of composition instead.

TL;DR: I think this is an example of people trying to hard to fit music into neat little boxes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Part 2: Writing heavy metal, and in particular Hardcore/Metalcore (I'd love ISMBOF to jump in here with anything I forget).

- Tempo is at any range, although generally we want something with some driving force, so rarely will a song be any slower than 100 bpm, more often tending towards 160-180. Time sig is either 4/4 or 6/8.
- Song structure is generally quite close to the format of Intro, Verse, Prechorus, Chorus, Bridge 1, Verse, Prechorus, Chorus, Breakdown, Soft Chorus, Double Chorus, Outro. When this structure is deviated from, there is usally only limited additional material added.
- Guitars, bass and drums form a rhythmic section, with muted patterns playing a larger part than interesting melodic patterns).
- Guitars are tuned to Drop D or lower, although Drop C is one of the most common tunings. Heavy distortion is used on the majority of guitar tracks.
- Vocals involve an interplay between harsher growled/screamed vocals and traditional vocals (most often found in choruses).

- Verses are generally writen with some form of harmonic minor pattern, alternating chord notes with root notes at the lowest tuning.
- Choruses tend to move from the angrier sound to an 'uplifting' feel, although this generally degenerates into VI IV I patterns.
- Breakdowns are just open notes with varying rhythmic patters. Drums move to half-time.


I'm pretty sure i've forgotten stuff, but i'll fix this when i get home.

[Freewave]

I think one of the biggest issue i see with this thread is that its looking it in a present tense view. Sure its easy to see it as a marketing tag you might see on beatport or a style a dj plays but ultimately genres are about using a word or a few of them to evoke a whole style of music for those looking for it and for those who actively make it, but it also forgets that each genre at one point was NEW and exciting and different then what came before it. Its very easy these days to combine styles or put them in grey areas and that's fine and as it should be but there's nothing wrong with appreciating genres as slices of music history and a kaleidoscope of flavors available of music. Combine styles or ignore them if you choose.

Ill drop a bunch of lists I've made in the past that will help anyone wanting to know what they mean, what are good examples, the history involved, etc. Hope they'll be of use to anyone interested.

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/TheScient ... _set_index
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/TheScient ... and_styles
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/TheScient ... and_scenes

Regarding the op each genre has its own sounds and technniques for creation so you'd likely want to investigate what it sounds like first and then look at the forums or people making it for tips.

[Navron]

As said in many threads, listening is a key factor when trying to discover what makes a particular genre or song stick out. PinkieGuy pretty much nailed metal on the head, so I won't go into that one. Here are some other genres and tips in general with regard to different styles.

Dance/Dubstep/Rave: This one I want to put out there, because it's often misunderstood. Dubstep is not about the wobble bass, dance isn't about gated pads, and rave isn't about, "Oonce, Oonce, Oonce." The biggest key regarding any kind of "club," music, is not the instruments, but the drums.

Try to think of your drums as the dance itself. You stomp on the bass hit, you place your other foot down on the snare hit. Upbeats are generally when you lift your head, downbeats when you swing it down. High hat rhythms is about the other motion of your arms and the swing of your body.

With that said, you can construct drum patterns by picturing the dance motion of a person going along with the song. What makes dubstep is not the wub of the bass, but the stepping pattern of the drums (hence the "step"). The "dub" simply refers to certain characteristics of dub music added in.

Psychedelic/Trip Hop: One of my favorite genres, or as I like to put it, the, "For trippers, by trippers," music. Generally this music has a much slowly tempo when compared to dance or house music, but once again, it's about the rhythm. Trip Hop tends to favor a bass that meshes well into the drum groove. As for the drum groove itself, I tend to imagine it goes along with what one would be experiencing during a trip. Is it a rapidly accelerating heart beat? Add some pulsating bass kicks. Is it a calm, relaxing, peaceful experience? Add some ambient pads and sweeps with some faint bass kicks. After all, they aren't in their body anymore, are they? They won't hear the bass kick/heart beat as profoundly.

A noteworthy example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhS13Zy5oFE