Help plox - Arranging music

[Howlgram]

So, i got this issue
In order to make music i can either record myself playing over the pc keyboard with the VSTs, or arrange the notes by mouse
The thing is that if i record the pc keyboard, the tempo ends up being kind of a mess, and it isnt so bad if i am doing like 1 piano, but i think that it is gonna be really hard if i try to put more instruments together. I think that this could be improved just by practice, i dont think it is so easy though
and if i arrange the notes by mouse... the result is an inhuman sound, it sounds like so computerized, it is horrible.

Edit: How do you do your music, do you arrange it with the mouse or record it from a midi output?

If you could help me with this i would be glad, because this problem affects a lot. =)
>i hope i explained myself xP<
btw, im using instrument fonts, like as of piano, not anything fancy like "massive" or "z3ta"

[bartekko]

massive, and zeta+ fancy? excuse me, but (rainbow dash laughing)
on a serious note, start the metronome, and play to the beat, then quantize what sounds incredibly bad.

When you arrange using the mouse, then make sure to care about note velocity, and don't make all the blocks go legato, especially when you play unisons one after another

[Howlgram]

massive, and zeta+ fancy? excuse me, but (rainbow dash laughing)
on a serious note, start the metronome, and play to the beat, then quantize what sounds incredibly bad.

When you arrange using the mouse, then make sure to care about note velocity, and don't make all the blocks go legato, especially when you play unisons one after another

Lol.
well, the first thing, i can do that already, it is like, obvious, haha. But quantizing it wont really help me get better at it, and it is not totally accurate. Also, i find it hard to follow the metronome, LOL, but that is just practice? i guess.
Then, about the second, it makes sense changing velocity, but why would that help if when i play it by keyboard it sounds much better and it is all on the same velocity?
Playing them all legato is what makes it sound bad?

[Versilaryan]

Get Ableton Live. That's the easy way to fix it. xD

I'm not entirely sure about other MIDI sequencers (I know FL can't do it, though), but in Ableton, you can record your MIDI notes as you play them and then edit them later. So, you play what you want to play on the keyboard, and then go back and fix note positions.

You might be able to do this in REAPER, too. I'm not entirely sure 'cause I've never tried it.

If you're going to do this often, though, make sure you get some actual practice in! Ideally, if you want a more human sound, you'll want to keep all the tiny tempo errors and maybe introduce some rubato to your song, something that can be really tedious to do in a MIDI sequencer.

[bartekko]

if you can't follow the metronome, then instead of metronome use an actual drumbeat. Can you send us example midi's?

[Howlgram]

btw, this goes to you two, how do you do your music, do you arrange it with the mouse or record it from a midi output?

in Ableton, you can record your MIDI notes as you play them and then edit them later. So, you play what you want to play on the keyboard, and then go back and fix note positions.

I got ableton and that is what i do, i guess im just terrible, but oh well, practice is what i need then
i am mainly curious on the fact that the other way it sounds computerized

If you're going to do this often, though, make sure you get some actual practice in! Ideally, if you want a more human sound, you'll want to keep all the tiny tempo errors and maybe introduce some rubato to your song, something that can be really tedious to do in a MIDI sequencer.

^_^
Now let me ask you if a Midi-keyboard makes much of a difference in performance here, because it feels very weird to play stuff on the pc keyboard, anyways i think practice is the same thing here

if you can't follow the metronome, then instead of metronome use an actual drumbeat. Can you send us example midi's?

That is what i was thinking, maybe put in the beat before the melody, well, i will see when i get around ableton again to try that.
and if i get to find something that could work as a good example i may post it, right now not really

thanks guys

[Dr_Dissonance]

I arrange music by mouse/score!

I use Sibelius and it has this great setting called the "Expression" setting...BEST SETTING EVAR!!!

That is all, no idea how to get it all good for you though, just letting you know that thatis an option!

[Versilaryan]

Yeah, definitely get a MIDI keyboard. SO much better than a PC keyboard. (In fact, I've got this ridiculous 76-key thing being horribly inconvenient in the middle of my room because it's better than using my PC keyboard. >.>)

Practice with a metronome before you do anything with beats. If you have difficulty following the metronome, slow it down and make sure you can get it 100% correct, rhythms and all, at the slower speed. Then up the metronome a few clicks, and then work on getting that 100% correct. There's a wonderful quote I heard -- the biggest difference between an average musician and a professional is that the average musician practices until he gets it right. The professional practices until he can't get it wrong. Now, you don't have to practice it /that/ much, but you get the idea. You're only going to improve if you can play this thing reliably perfectly, especially at slower tempos.

When I write something, I always write it all out first and then make the actual thing when I'm done writing it. So you could make the robotic one to get the main idea down, then write the drum groove. And then rerecord the melody over that. It's a lot easier to be expressive if you have a groove backing you up.

Usually, I just click things in with my mouse/keyboard, but if I need something to be expressive, I'll practice it and play it on a MIDI keyboard. It always goes into Sibelius before Ableton, so I know exactly what I'm doing when I'm actually putting the piece together.

[LunchBagMusic]

I use Sibelius and it has this great setting called the "Expression" setting...BEST SETTING EVAR!!!

I have never heard of such a thing... Is that exclusive to sibelius 7?
(Yes, I know this is slightly off-topic)

[Dr_Dissonance]

Oh sorry, it's the "Style" settings in Sibelius 7...sorry for making up random settings...

In Play - Performance, there's 3 settings for "Style": Espressivo, Rubato and Rhythmic Feel...
Those are real good for making a piece sound more human!

[LunchBagMusic]

Oh sorry, it's the "Style" settings in Sibelius 7...sorry for making up random settings...

In Play - Performance, there's 3 settings for "Style": Espressivo, Rubato and Rhythmic Feel...
Those are real good for making a piece sound more human!

Oh yeah, those.

Use 'em all the time. Absolute godsend.

[Howlgram]

When I write something, I always write it all out first and then make the actual thing when I'm done writing it. So you could make the robotic one to get the main idea down, then write the drum groove. And then rerecord the melody over that. It's a lot easier to be expressive if you have a groove backing you up.

Usually, I just click things in with my mouse/keyboard, but if I need something to be expressive, I'll practice it and play it on a MIDI keyboard. It always goes into Sibelius before Ableton, so I know exactly what I'm doing when I'm actually putting the piece together.

cool, then im probably gonna get a midi keyboard for christmas, something else is that i cant write anything with the mouse, i gotta experiment and see what sounds good with the keyboard, kind of build ideas from there, with the expression implemented from the beginning, that is why it is pretty hard for me to like arrange stuff by mouse and such. And that is why i need to get the timing from the beginning.

Also since i will start learning piano, im gonna get practice for sure (yay, im so eager), and a midikeyboard would be really awesome to complement the piano so that i can apply what i learn when making stuff on the pc.

Oh sorry, it's the "Style" settings in Sibelius 7...sorry for making up random settings...

In Play - Performance, there's 3 settings for "Style": Espressivo, Rubato and Rhythmic Feel...
Those are real good for making a piece sound more human!

I will google that and see how to use it on ableton, thanks for pointing them out!

[bartekko]

I will google that and see how to use it on ableton, thanks for pointing them out!

Isn't sibelius a DAW on It's own?

[Versilaryan]

Yeah, it's a Sibelius thing, so if you wanted to use that, you'd need to get Sibelius, too. ._.

As it goes, sticking things into Sibelius, exporting the MIDI, and using that elsewhere isn't a bad idea at all. Especially if you're more classically oriented, sticking things into sheet music should be better than sticking things into a piano roll.

[LunchBagMusic]

Isn't sibelius a DAW on It's own?

Eh... sort of.
It certainly functions in some ways like a DAW (you can plug any soundset/VST/whatever and it'll play it back), but its focused on sheet music/score production as much as it is on playback. I could get technical, but Sib requires quite a deep knowledge of classic music theory. Which would be too big for one forum post.

[Howlgram]

okay, nevermind then. I dont think i will try any other DAW before i at least know Ableton, oh well thanks.